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View Poll Results: Is the battle for gay rights a civil rights battle?
Yes 32 48.48%
No 33 50.00%
maybe with some disclaimers below 1 1.52%
put me dow for the GAZ option 0 0%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-21-2013, 09:34 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Is the battle for gay rights a civil rights battle?

From Obama's inaugural speech.

"We, the people, declare today that the most evident of truths — that all of us are created equal — is the star that guides us still; just as it guided our forebears through Seneca Falls, and Selma, and Stonewall ... Our journey is not complete until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law — for if we are truly created equal, then surely the love we commit to one another must be equal as well."

Today Obama placed an original place for the battle for gay civil rights, Stonewall along side the same original battleground's for women's rights(Seneca Falls) and African-American rights(Selma).

So the poll question is............

Is the battle for gay rights a civil rights battle?
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:03 PM   #196
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Oh, really?

So there won't be quotas that say private companies have to hire men who wear women's clothes, right?

Shyeah, ok.

"Gay rights". what a crock o' moonbat BS.

Why would there be? I think Affirmative Action is a joke, and job discrimination is already illegal.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:19 PM   #197
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Dear Comrades,

Last week, the British Socialist Commonwealth’s Committee for Redistributive Algorithms appealed to the Directorate for Minorities Ranking of the Office of the Commissar for Equality Enforcement under the Department of Social Egalitarianism and Redistribution for clarification and guidance on the matter of the proper social ranking and victimhood status of Transsexual Males-to-Females in light of concerns voiced by Feminists that their victim status was being jeopardized by improper categorization.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ti...r-on-the-left/


In short, BS Party members from the Feminist Caucus are questioning whether Transsexual Males-to-Females meet the proper classification of Female in order to qualify for Victimhood status, given that Males without other qualifiers are by Party definition not a minority group qualifying for redistributive benefits under Party algorithms for social justice.

Transsexual Males-to-Females, on the other hand, state that their victimization ranking should be elevated above the general categorization of Females (which is broken down into 27 further subcategories by the Directorate for Minorities Ranking). This due to the fact that they are neither psychologically nor anatomically Male (depending on the subcategorizations offered by the Subcommittee for Transsexual Studies), which leaves them rejected by Males and thus qualified for victimhood status, while also equally rejected by Females, giving them double-credit for victim status and potentially placing the victimhood ranking ahead of the general category of Females.


Caucus members are divided over whether they should cede their position, leading to lively discussions within the Feminist community and its subcategorical groups. Given the highly influential standing of European Socialist parties vis-à-vis the USSA, and especially since the BS Party speaks English as many of our USSA members do, the final decision of the BS Party will likely be adopted here via the Canadian Socialist Party/Canadienne du Parti Socialiste once an adequate English and French parallel translation can be agreed upon.

The USSA is deeply grateful to BS Party leadership in areas such as Militant Atheism, Collectivist Healthcare, and Universal Disarmament. Their progress in this area will be welcomed by our Party, which looks to British Socialism as a model for American Socialism.

Until this matter is officially resolved, Party members are instructed to refer any related disputes to their local Party offices and refrain in engaging the topic until the Party’s Central Committee empowers our own Department of Social Egalitarianism and Redistribution to issue a final ranking status for all the various Caucuses of the Party, thus establishing the proper redistributive levels of social justice.

Equal Rights for all minorities through Party-approved ranking! Struggle for Redistributive Justice!

Faithfully submitted to the Collective of the People’s Cube,
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http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-bl...ls-t10525.html
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:03 PM   #198
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If the state sponsors a contract (e.g. marriage), the 14th Amendment (Equal Protection clause) applies.

This can be solved via two methods: either the state must allow for "non-traditional marriages" within the confines of the law (homosexuality is not illegal, incest, polygamy, beastiality are), or the state should not sponsor and regulate marriage.

So then, affirmative action should be nullified. Equal protection, glad to hear you agree.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:32 AM   #199
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There's no such thing as "gay" rights. Only rights. Putting "gay" before it means special rights.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:50 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
There's no such thing as "gay" rights. Only rights. Putting "gay" before it means special rights.

When a group of people are legally discriminated against, it's fairly common to tack on a qualifier.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:55 AM   #201
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When a group of people are legally discriminated against, it's fairly common to tack on a qualifier.
Except they're not legally discriminated against. The law is the same for everyone. It's also not a right.
They also have every other right listed in the Constitution.

I don't agree with such qualifiers for anyone. I'd rather say, let's extend a right to "such and such" folks.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:56 AM   #202
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Feminists versus transsexuals: Julie Burchill, Suzanne Moore and The Observer spark civil war on the Left




By Tim StanleyPoliticsLast updated: January 13th, 2013



On Sunday, Julie Burchill – the Bernard Manning of feminism – wrote in the Observer that the Left was being undone by a vast conspiracy of transsexuals. Or, to be precise, by “dicks in chicks' clothing”. And so began a day of civil war on Twitter as the Left tore itself up over her right to be so offensive. It raises the question: “Are the Observer’s subeditors still on Christmas leave?” If so, I’d encourage them to stay that way. The paper is a lot more entertaining when no one’s bothering to edit it.

The dispute began when Suzanne Moore wrote a piece for The New Statesman about feminist fury in modern Britain. Buried in the middle of it was a sentence that read, “[Women] are angry with ourselves for not being happier, not being loved properly and not having the ideal body shape – that of a Brazilian transsexual.” Personally, I wasn’t offended by the phrase “body … of a Brazilian transsexual” – but then it’s not my place to decide what’s offensive and what’s not when it comes to transgenderism. I’ve not been born in the wrong body, fought for years for the right to change it, undergone complex surgery and then suffered the bigotry of others. Some of those who did find Moore’s line unamusing asked her on Twitter if she could redact it. All Moore had to do was apologise for potential offence caused (the old “get out clause” for not actually correcting anything). Instead she made a “robust” defence of herself that climaxed in a tweet that could easily have been written on a toilet wall: “People can just f*** off really. Cut their dicks off and be more feminist than me. Good for them.”

So, the crisis started when the feminist Moore refused to show any grace towards a minority that, by all standards, has it pretty rough. Lesson number 1: being a liberal doesn’t automatically make you a polite and sensitive person. Lesson number 2: when commissioning Julie Burchill to compose a rebuttal, don’t say, “And you can write whatever you want…”

Burchill’s writing is sublimely savage. Her prose can be read peacefully on the page or recited in the middle of a pub fight – a broken bottle whirling above her head. She took to the Observer to defend her friend against the assault of these “screaming mimis”, but she didn’t limit herself to that. Burchill tore in to the entire transsexual activist community and even the premise of transsexuality itself. I quote: “To have your cock cut off and then plead special privileges as women – above natural-born women, who don't know the meaning of suffering, apparently – is a bit like the old definition of chutzpah: the boy who killed his parents and then asked the jury for clemency on the grounds he was an orphan.” Ouch.

Burchill seems to think that transsexuals (or “bed wetters in bad wigs”) are engaged in a global conspiracy against “the minority of women of working-class origin to make it in what used to be called Fleet Street”, as if Rupert Murdoch spends his weekends in drag working out ways to destroy women with regional accents. And so the article is full of non-sequiturs about single parenthood and council houses. It’s a classic example of the identity politics revolution consuming itself. Liberalism has created different political classes of minorities who compete with each other for title of the most oppressed – and this invariably creates new forms of fascism as one group asserts itself over the other.

Reading between the lines, Burchill seems to think that people who came late to being a woman not only have no right to call themselves feminists but retain some kernel of misogyny that turns them against “real” sisters. They therefore deserve nothing but contempt. The theory is patently absurd, but then this will happen if you insist on seeing life as a series of power conflicts between groups striving for moral legitimacy. For proof of that, take a look at Owen Jones’s twitter feed. The Justin Bieber of British politics seems to have lost his entire Sunday to dealing with the fallout of Burchill’s article. A day that probably should have been spent licking envelopes on behalf of one minority (Islington Unicyclists United to Save Cuba?) was instead spent batting off allegations of bigotry against another. My advice to him is to drop the Alinksy and pick up some Edmund Burke. Conservatives don’t have to trouble themselves over these special interest turf wars. It distracts from important things … like actual charity work.

But the big takeaway from the Moore/Burchill controversy is just how illiberal liberals can be when they get in to a fight. When not done insulting foes, they try to censor each other – and they're not above using the moral authority of a nominally Right-wing government to do it. Late on Sunday, Lynne Featherstone Tweeted that Julie Burchill should be sacked for the offence she had caused. How very liberal: silencing dissent in the name of political correctness. Welcome to the Brave New World that Leveson made.


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ti...r-on-the-left/
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:10 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Except they're not legally discriminated against. The law is the same for everyone. It's also not a right.
They also have every other right listed in the Constitution.

I don't agree with such qualifiers for anyone. I'd rather say, let's extend a right to "such and such" folks.
The law will still be the same for everyone. If you want to enter into a same sex marriage, you will have the right to do so.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:12 PM   #204
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The law will still be the same for everyone. If you want to enter into a same sex marriage, you will have the right to do so.
The law already is the same for everyone. There is no discrimination.
What you're saying, is another version of marriage will be allowed—while still denying polygamy and polyandry.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:15 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The law already is the same for everyone. There is no discrimination.
What you're saying, is another version of marriage will be allowed—while still denying polygamy and polyandry.

That's what makes it legal discrimination.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:19 PM   #206
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The law already is the same for everyone. There is no discrimination.
Bull ****ing shit. Gays are discriminated against daily. You can believe whatever you want but that horse has left the barn.

91% of white Americans thought blacks didn't need special rights in the 60's. The laws were already the same.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:23 PM   #207
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:29 PM   #208
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Bull ****ing shit. Gays are discriminated against daily. You can believe whatever you want but that horse has left the barn.
It has nothing to do with any personal belief. The law in each state is the same for all—certain age and opposite sex for everyone. May I ask what part of equality under the law you do not understand?

This is not done due to animus toward homosexuals. We have equality under the law not in every area of life where none of us are equal.

Please provide factual evidence that gays are discriminated against daily? By that I mean by the state.

They are far from a victim group, prefer to hire their own kind because they like to work together and are usually in upper income brackets due to not having children. They even like having their own communities in cities by grouping in certain areas. In addition to that there are even corporations such as Disney and NYL, and I am sure others, that cover gay so's for health insurance too. They even have gay pride day. Having gay pride day is discrimination since no one else gets that least of all straights.

You're full of shit with no facts except propaganda. And of course discrimination is something that is done in everyday life out of necessity. You need Logic 101.



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91% of white Americans thought blacks didn't need special rights in the 60's. The laws were already the same.
No those laws were not the same thing. They specifically targeted that group. Never heard of this called Black Rights either.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:35 PM   #209
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If there is discrimination against gays, then it exists against Mormons and Muslims too.

The state should just be neutral as it used to be before.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:42 PM   #210
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Gay Marriage Sucks!
by Justin Raimondo, a libertarian gay man
"Which brings us to the central argument against gay marriage, which is that it is based on a heterosexual model of sexual and emotional relationships, one that just doesn’t fit the gay lifestyle. The whole idea of getting gays hitched is derivative of the central error of egalitarianism, the counterintuitive conception of human beings as being “equal” and, therefore, interchangeable—and therefore one-size-fits-all. Egalitarianism isn’t really a political ideology: it’s a religion, one quite capable of withstanding a sustained assault of clear evidence to the contrary....

Do gay guys really want to have half their incomes claimed by their spouses? With gay marriage comes gay alimony, and that is what is going to make “Gay Divorce Court” such a tawdry tale of twinks on the make and sugar daddies paying through the nose. Gay marriage is going to go out of style rather quickly as a whole series of high-profile divorce cases make their way through the courts....

The very phrase “gay marriage” is an oxymoron. Homosexuality, after all, is really all about the avoidance of marriage – and the responsibility of raising a family. It is the embrace of sensuality for its own sake, as an instrument of pure pleasure rather than procreation. Do gay guys really want to give up what is most attractive – to males, at any rate – about their recreational activities, the tremendous sense of freedom it implies?..."
Read the whole article BRC. You might learn something real about gays instead of egalitarianism in the abstract.

http://takimag.com/article/gay_marri...#ixzz2JCd4Cua2
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