I'm socially ________ and fiscally ________. (fill in the blanks)

[patteeu]

We've all heard others describe themselves as socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Most of us have described ourselves that way at some point. I've done it before, but I've started avoiding that phrase because I think it means radically different things to different people.

For example, in petez28's recent thread (So, you say you aren't just a party line type of person?), here's a list of people who embrace the description (so far):

Rain Man
Dave Lane
Mr. Flopnuts
chiefzilla1501
crispystl420
AustinChief
FishingRod
Amnorix

That's a pretty varied group of ideologies. So, vote in the poll and let's find the socially conservative, fiscally liberal people.

[ClevelandBronco]

I'm socially inimitable and fiscally morose. I'm automotively Japanese and computationally Apple. I'm olfactorily overwhelming and choreographically challenged.

I'm the undercover ubermensch with an Ali Baba alibi, baby.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I did vote Republican. Both Romney and Scott Brown.

I thought both were declared RINO's by "real" conservatives?

[chiefzilla1501]

Stop calling this person "Bob." Are Republicans too dense to realize that this person is named "Bonnie" and "Carlos"?

I voted Republican in this election cycle. But I also practically kicked my TV at the clueless lack of social awareness of the Republican party to raise issues out of shit that doesn't matter. There are enough people who are invested in social issues like women's rights, gay rights, and immigration rights to sway the balance.

But by all means... let's blame the moderates for the Republican lack of an identity. And not the Republicans who chose to piss off several factions of voters on issues they didn't even need to speak up about.

Originally Posted by patteeu

Here's a Jonah Goldberg column on the subject that might apply to some of you:

Wake Up, Socially Liberal Fiscal Conservatives
The GOP isn’t the political party in debt denial.
By Jonah Goldberg

Dear Socially Liberal Fiscal-Conservative Friend,

That’s pretty toothy, so I’m going to call you “Bob.”

But whatever specific name you go by, Bob, you know who you are. You’re the sort of person who says to his conservative friends or co-workers something like, “I would totally vote for Republicans if they could just give up on these crazy social issues.”

When you explain your votes for Barack Obama, you talk about how Republicans used to be much more moderate and focused on important things such as low taxes, fiscal discipline, and balanced budgets.
When Colin Powell was on Meet the Press the other day, you nodded along as he lamented how the GOP has lost its way since the days when it was all about fiscal responsibility.

And, Bob, you think Republicans are acting crazy-pants on the debt ceiling. You don’t really follow all of the details, but you can just tell that the GOP is being “extreme,” thanks to those wacky tea partiers.

So, Bob, as a “fiscal conservative,” what was so outrageous about trying to cut pork — Fisheries in Alaska! Massive subsidies for Amtrak! — from the Sandy disaster-relief bill? What was so nuts about looking for offsets to pay for it?

Bob, I’m going to be straight with you. I never had much respect for your political acumen before, but you’re a sucker.

You’re still spouting this nonsense about being fiscally conservative while insisting that the GOP is the problem. You buy into the media’s anti-Republican hysteria no matter what the facts are. Heck, you even believe it when Obama suggests he’s like an Eisenhower Republican.

Well, let’s talk about Eisenhower, your kind of Republican. Did you know that in his famous farewell address he warned about the debt? “We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage,” he said. “We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.”

Bob, we are that insolvent phantom, you feckless, gormless clod. The year Eisenhower delivered that speech, U.S. debt was roughly half our GDP. But that was when we were still paying off WWII (not to mention things like the Marshall Plan), and the defense budget constituted more than half the U.S. budget (today it’s a fifth and falling). Now, the debt is bigger than our GDP. Gross Domestic Product is barely $15 trillion. The national debt is over $16 trillion and climbing — fast. The country isn’t going broke, Bob, it is broke.

When George W. Bush added nearly $5 trillion in national debt in two terms you were scandalized. When Obama added more than that in one term, you yawned. When, in 2006, then-senator Obama condemned Bush’s failure of leadership and vowed to vote against raising the debt ceiling, you thought him a statesman. Obama, who wants to borrow trillions more, now admits that was purely a “political vote.”

Yet when Republicans actually have the courage of Obama’s own convictions, you condemn them.

You nodded sagely when Obama said we needed a “balanced approach” to cut the deficit. He said he couldn’t rein in entitlements without also raising taxes on “millionaires and billionaires.” Well, he won that fight. We raised taxes on millionaires and billionaires exactly as much as he wanted. We also raised the payroll tax on everyone.

Obama’s response to getting the tax hikes he wanted? He says we still need a “balanced approach” — i.e., even more tax hikes.

Anyone who calls himself a fiscal conservative understands we have a spending problem. Do the math. A two-earner couple who retired in 2011 after making $89,000 per year will have paid about $114,000 into Medicare over their lifetimes but will receive $355,000. When will it dawn on you that Obama doesn’t think we have a spending problem? I ask because when he said “we don’t have a spending problem,” it seemed to have no effect on you.

And yet you still think Paul Ryan’s budget was “extreme.” Do you know when it balanced the budget? 2040. What’s a non-extreme date to balance the budget, Bob? 2113?

Look, Bob, I don’t want to go spelunking in that cranium of yours. I don’t know why you think you’re a fiscal conservative. The simple fact is, you’re not. The green-eye-shaded Republicans you claim to miss would be scandalized by the mess we’re in, largely thanks to voters like you, Bob. Eisenhower would take a flamethrower to today’s Washington.

I don’t expect you to vote Republican, never mind admit you’re simply a liberal. But please stop preening about your fiscal conservatism, particularly as you condemn the GOP for not being fiscal conservatives, even when they are the only fiscal conservatives in town.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Speak up, fiscally liberal people. Let us know who you are. So far, Direckshun is the only person to admit it.

I can't fit into your narrow definitions.

I want to provide a hand up but not hand out. I would like to see limits on the amount and time someone can stay on the government tit.

I want to have a strong defense and we should spend whatever it takes to keep us safe. But, you have billion $ items that the DOD doesn't even want but are forced to buy.

I think we should continue to have medicare, medicaid and Social Security forever. But, we need to reform all those programs or they won't exist.

[chiefzilla1501]

Call me "Bob." Sorry that the article above speaks so condescendingly to me as if I don't have a mind of my own.

I hate regulation, but I also understand that absolute power corrupts absolutely. I understand that lack of regulation led to disgusting meat in the meat packing industry and sugar pills passing for tylenol. I understand that some health code standards are necessary. And that de-regulation led to some of the abuses in the financial services industry. I also understand that over-regulation is crippling businesses and Dodd Frank is creating unreasonable procedural requirements for institutions that are mostly in compliance.

I do not favor pet projects, pork, or wasteful spending. However, I have fought against rubber stamp conservatives who spit at every development project or stadium project.

I don't like over-simplified beliefs about spending. I hate Obamacare, but do not understand why conservatives also push back on streamlining healthcare costs and improving transparency in pricing to finally bring health care costs to a reasonable place.

I do not believe in rubber stamping. I believe in cost-benefit (understanding full well that ROI can easily be manipulated). There is no better example than conservatives throwing a shit fit over spending money on additional Census data. Because it costed money. Nevermind that that census data is used by small businesses everywhere to get market intelligence they cannot afford.

I find it insulting that the writer of the article suggested that this moderate faction is mindless. I am fiscally conservative, but I am not going to blindly say all spending is bad.

[Taco John]

I'm on the right:

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I'm on the right:

I'm assuming this is humor.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I can't fit into your narrow definitions.

I want to provide a hand up but not hand out. I would like to see limits on the amount and time someone can stay on the government tit.

Well a hand up shouldn't require much money, it's just a matter of opportunity.

The "hand up" line I'm hearing all over the place from the left. It sounds more like spin. Especially when over 80% liked their healthcare already.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I can't fit into your narrow definitions.

I want to provide a hand up but not hand out. I would like to see limits on the amount and time someone can stay on the government tit.

I want to have a strong defense and we should spend whatever it takes to keep us safe. But, you have billion $ items that the DOD doesn't even want but are forced to buy.

I think we should continue to have medicare, medicaid and Social Security forever. But, we need to reform all those programs or they won't exist.

I didn't define anything. I left that up to you and everyone else who responds.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Call me "Bob." Sorry that the article above speaks so condescendingly to me as if I don't have a mind of my own.

I hate regulation, but I also understand that absolute power corrupts absolutely. I understand that lack of regulation led to disgusting meat in the meat packing industry and sugar pills passing for tylenol. I understand that some health code standards are necessary. And that de-regulation led to some of the abuses in the financial services industry. I also understand that over-regulation is crippling businesses and Dodd Frank is creating unreasonable procedural requirements for institutions that are mostly in compliance.

I do not favor pet projects, pork, or wasteful spending. However, I have fought against rubber stamp conservatives who spit at every development project or stadium project.

I don't like over-simplified beliefs about spending. I hate Obamacare, but do not understand why conservatives also push back on streamlining healthcare costs and improving transparency in pricing to finally bring health care costs to a reasonable place.

I do not believe in rubber stamping. I believe in cost-benefit (understanding full well that ROI can easily be manipulated). There is no better example than conservatives throwing a shit fit over spending money on additional Census data. Because it costed money. Nevermind that that census data is used by small businesses everywhere to get market intelligence they cannot afford.

I find it insulting that the writer of the article suggested that this moderate faction is mindless. I am fiscally conservative, but I am not going to blindly say all spending is bad.

If you don't think Goldberg was accurately describing you, why do you identify with Bob and take so much offense?

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Call me "Bob." Sorry that the article above speaks so condescendingly to me as if I don't have a mind of my own.

Well, you seem to have adopted a number of economic fallacies that get spun from the left academia and media.

I hate regulation, but I also understand that absolute power corrupts absolutely. I understand that lack of regulation led to disgusting meat in the meat packing industry and sugar pills passing for tylenol. I understand that some health code standards are necessary.

What Republican or Conservative ever advocated for zero regulation?

They usually are against over-regulation—especially for egalitarian and social justice reasons. Hong Kong has the freest economy in the world and even they have some regulation but it's simple and straightforward. Some regulations do not make an economy unfree. It's when you have too many and they destroy incentive or stop good action. It's also when you over regulate for the public good, such as egalitarian purposes, you wind up having fascism because the appearance of ownership is maintained. There's just no way for one central bureaucracy to regulate every abuse.

And that de-regulation led to some of the abuses in the financial services industry.

Why do you cite left-wing progressive economic fallacies? It was just new and untried regs that were put in while some of the older, and better ones were removed.

I also understand that over-regulation is crippling businesses and Dodd Frank is creating unreasonable procedural requirements for institutions that are mostly in compliance.

Good

I do not favor pet projects, pork, or wasteful spending. However, I have fought against rubber stamp conservatives who spit at every development project or stadium project.

Stadium project? That's a pet project too. Seriously, this is crony capitalism aka corporatism. America is about individuals developing such things and making it on their own.

I don't like over-simplified beliefs about spending. I hate Obamacare, but do not understand why conservatives also push back on streamlining healthcare costs and improving transparency in pricing to finally bring health care costs to a reasonable place.

Seriously, you don't understand the problem was actually created by govt intervention in healthcare markets that led to its greater expense. You think govt is going to be able to make cost more reasonable. This is why you're really on the left.

I find it insulting that the writer of the article suggested that this moderate faction is mindless. I am fiscally conservative, but I am not going to blindly say all spending is bad.

Fiscally conservative would be following the Constitution. Just because you're a mix of the current two parties doesn't make you a fiscal conservative. At least say you are a fiscal moderate or moderately liberal. A true fiscal conservative would be more like Scrooge. You're not that guy.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I'm assuming this is humor.

No. I want to give a hand up, not a hand out.

[ClevelandBronco]

Socially liberal on most stuff except abortion, which is never going to change no matter how many people I count as murderers. Fiscally not as conservative as I used to be. At some point during the house fire you just have to stop throwing cupfuls of water and resign yourself to the fact that the mother****er is going to burn to the ground.

[PaulAllen]

Blackbob votes for socially conservative

[listopencil]

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