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Old 01-27-2013, 04:41 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Comprehensive immigation reform on its way, McCain again involved.

UPDATED TO INCLUDE THE ACTUAL PROPOSAL

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ration-reform/

READ: Senators release bipartisan plan for immigration reform
Posted by Brad Plumer
on January 28, 2013 at 9:42 am

A bipartisan group of senators has just unveiled a new proposed framework for overhauling the U.S. immigration system.

The big feature here is that current undocumented immigrants in the United States with otherwise clean legal records could achieve legal residency after paying a fine and back taxes. But a path to full citizenship would only be offered after measures to prevent further illegal immigration are in place.

The proposal also includes new border security, more stringent checks on immigrants with visas, and programs to help businesses verify the legal status of their employees.

Read the full proposal below:

——

Bipartisan Framework for Comprehensive Immigration Reform

From Senators Chuck Schumer, John McCain, Dick Durbin, Lindsey Graham, Robert Menendez, Marco Rubio, Michael Bennet, and Jeff Flake

Introduction:

We recognize that our immigration system is broken. And while border security has improved significantly over the last two Administrations, we still don’t have a functioning immigration system. This has created a situation where up to 11 million undocumented immigrants are living in the shadows. Our legislation acknowledges these realities by finally committing the resources needed to secure the border, modernize and streamline our current legal immigration system, while creating a tough but fair legalization program for individuals who are currently here. We will ensure that this is a successful permanent reform to our immigration system that will not need to be revisited.

Four Basic Legislative Pillars:

1. Create a tough but fair path to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants currently living in the United States that is contingent upon securing our borders and tracking whether legal immigrants have left the country when required;

2. Reform our legal immigration system to better recognize the importance of characteristics that will help build the American economy and strengthen American families;

3. Create an effective employment verification system that will prevent identity theft and end the hiring of future unauthorized workers; and,

4. Establish an improved process for admitting future workers to serve our nation’s workforce needs, while simultaneously protecting all workers.

1. Creating a Path to Citizenship for Unauthorized Immigrants Already Here that is Contingent Upon Securing the Border and Combating Visa Overstays

- Our legislation will provide a tough, fair, and practical roadmap to address the status of unauthorized immigrants in the United States that is contingent upon our success in securing our borders and addressing visa overstays.

- To fulfill the basic governmental function of securing our borders, we will continue the increased efforts of the Border Patrol by providing them with the latest technology, infrastructure, and personnel needed to prevent, detect, and apprehend every unauthorized entrant.

- Additionally, our legislation will increase the number of unmanned aerial vehicles and surveillance equipment, improve radio interoperability and increase the number of agents at and between ports of entry. The purpose is to substantially lower the number of successful illegal border crossings while continuing to facilitate commerce.

- We will strengthen prohibitions against racial profiling and inappropriate use of force, enhance the training of border patrol agents, increase oversight, and create a mechanism to ensure a meaningful opportunity for border communities to share input, including critiques.

- Our legislation will require the completion of an entry-exit system that tracks whether all persons entering the United States on temporary visas via airports and seaports have left the country as required by law.

- We recognize that Americans living along the Southwest border are key to recognizing and understanding when the border is truly secure. Our legislation will create a commission comprised of governors, attorneys general, and community leaders living along the Southwest border to monitor the progress of securing our border and to make a recommendation regarding when the bill’s security measures outlined in the legislation are completed.

- While these security measures are being put into place, we will simultaneously require those who came or remained in the United States without our permission to register with the government. This will include passing a background check and settling their debt to society by paying a fine and back taxes, in order to earn probationary legal status, which will allow them to live and work legally in the United States. Individuals with a serious criminal background or others who pose a threat to our national security will be ineligible for legal status and subject to deportation. Illegal immigrants who have committed serious crimes face immediate deportation.

- We will demonstrate our commitment to securing our borders and combating visa overstays by requiring our proposed enforcement measures be complete before any immigrant on probationary status can earn a green card.

- Current restrictions preventing non-immigrants from accessing federal public benefits will also apply to lawful probationary immigrants.

- Once the enforcement measures have been completed, individuals with probationary legal status will be required to go to the back of the line of prospective immigrants, pass an additional background check, pay taxes, learn English and civics, demonstrate a history of work in the United States, and current employment, among other requirements, in order to earn the opportunity to apply for lawful permanent residency. Those individuals who successfully complete these requirements can eventually earn a green card.

- Individuals who are present without lawful status – not including people within the two categories identified below – will only receive a green card after every individual who is already waiting in line for a green card, at the time this legislation is enacted, has received their green card. Our purpose is to ensure that no one who has violated America’s immigration laws will receive preferential treatment as they relate to those individuals who have complied with the law.

- Our legislation also recognizes that the circumstances and the conduct of people without lawful status are not the same, and cannot be addressed identically.

For instance, individuals who entered the United States as minor children did not knowingly choose to violate any immigration laws. Consequently, under our proposal these individuals will not face the same requirements as other individuals in order to earn a path to citizenship.

Similarly, individuals who have been working without legal status in the United States agricultural industry have been performing very important and difficult work to maintain America’s food supply while earning subsistence wages. Due to the utmost importance in our nation maintaining the safety of its food supply, agricultural workers who commit to the long term stability of our nation’s agricultural industries will be treated differently than the rest of the undocumented population because of the role they play in ensuring that Americans have safe and secure agricultural products to sell and consume. These individuals will earn a path to citizenship through a different process under our new agricultural worker program.

2. Improving our Legal Immigration System and Attracting the World’s Best and Brightest

- The development of a rational legal immigration system is essential to ensuring America’s future economic prosperity. Our failure to act is perpetuating a broken system which sadly discourages the world’s best and brightest citizens from coming to the United States and remaining in our country to contribute to our economy. This failure makes a legal path to entry in the United States insurmountably difficult for well-meaning immigrants. This unarguably discourages innovation and economic growth. It has also created substantial visa backlogs which force families to live apart, which incentivizes illegal immigration.

- Our new immigration system must be more focused on recognizing the important characteristics which will help build the American economy and strengthen American families. Additionally, we must reduce backlogs in the family and employment visa categories so that future immigrants view our future legal immigration system as the exclusive means for entry into the United States.

- The United States must do a better job of attracting and keeping the world’s best and brightest. As such, our immigration proposal will award a green card to immigrants who have received a PhD or Master’s degree in science, technology, engineering, or math from an American university. It makes no sense to educate the world’s future innovators and entrepreneurs only to ultimately force them to leave our country at the moment they are most able to contribute to our economy.

3. Strong Employment Verification

- We recognize that undocumented immigrants come to the United States almost exclusively for jobs. As such, dramatically reducing future illegal immigration can only be achieved by developing a tough, fair, effective and mandatory employment verification system. An employment verification system must hold employers accountable for knowingly hiring undocumented workers and make it more difficult for unauthorized immigrants to falsify documents to obtain employment. Employers who knowingly hire unauthorized workers must face stiff fines and criminal penalties for egregious offenses.

- We believe the federal government must provide U.S. employers with a fast and reliable method to confirm whether new hires are legally authorized to work in the United States. This is essential to ensure the effective enforcement of immigration laws.

- Our proposal will create an effective employment verification system which prevents identity theft and ends the hiring of future unauthorized workers. We believe requiring prospective workers to demonstrate both legal status and identity, through non-forgeable electronic means prior to obtaining employment, is essential to an employee verification system; and,

- The employee verification system in our proposal will be crafted with procedural safeguards to protect American workers, prevent identity theft, and provide due process protections.

4. Admitting New Workers and Protecting Workers’ Rights

- The overwhelming majority of the 327,000 illegal entrants apprehended by CBP in FY2011 were seeking employment in the United States. We recognize that to prevent future waves of illegal immigration a humane and effective system needs to be created for these immigrant workers to enter the country and find employment without seeking the aid of human traffickers or drug cartels.

- Our proposal will provide businesses with the ability to hire lower-skilled workers in a timely manner when Americans are unavailable or unwilling to fill those jobs.

Our legislation would:

- Allow employers to hire immigrants if it can be demonstrated that they were unsuccessful in recruiting an American to fill an open position and the hiring of an immigrant will not displace American workers;

- Create a workable program to meet the needs of America’s agricultural industry, including dairy to find agricultural workers when American workers are not available to fill open positions;

- Allow more lower-skilled immigrants to come here when our economy is creating jobs, and fewer when our economy is not creating jobs;

- Protect workers by ensuring strong labor protections; and,

- Permit workers who have succeeded in the workplace and contributed to their communities over many years to earn green cards.

Last edited by Direckshun; 01-28-2013 at 09:27 AM..
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:24 AM   #31
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I'm reading the big difference between Obama's proposal and the Senate propsal is that his includes provisions for LGBT couples, unlike the Senate's.

I would doubt that this issue will get introduced in his speech today, since like I said, he wants to preserve the coalition.
So educate me Direckhun. Where we getting jobs for these people?
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:31 AM   #32
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Hooray for breaking the law!!!
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:39 AM   #33
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As securing the borders is never going to happen, the path to citizenship they're proposing is illusory.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:43 AM   #34
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Hooray for breaking the law!!!
You live in reality or you don't. There is no way to deport 11 million people so either come up with a solution or keep the status quo. Which do you prefer?
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:50 AM   #35
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You live in reality or you don't. There is no way to deport 11 million people so either come up with a solution or keep the status quo. Which do you prefer?
But our government can stick a missile up a camels ass from a drone plane half way around the world being piloted by a guy in Kansas. Who the **** do you people think your bullshitting sometimes? Your so full of shit. Their effective when it's convenient huh?
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:03 AM   #36
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But our government can stick a missile up a camels ass from a drone plane half way around the world being piloted by a guy in Kansas. Who the **** do you people think your bullshitting sometimes? Your so full of shit. Their effective when it's convenient huh?
So your solution is drone strikes on immigrants attempting to cross the border? Good luck with that.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:07 AM   #37
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But our government can stick a missile up a camels ass from a drone plane half way around the world being piloted by a guy in Kansas. Who the **** do you people think your bullshitting sometimes? Your so full of shit. Their effective when it's convenient huh?


You seriously think the government could round up every single illegal immigrant in this country? Really? Really? Are you going to have the military go around armed and knock down doors and drag people out of their homes and throw them in a truck and send them back over? Are you willing to destroy the economy and businesses as well?
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:28 AM   #38
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Buzzfeed has confirmed that Obama will, in fact, include same-sex couples protection in his speech today.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:51 AM   #39
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You seriously think the government could round up every single illegal immigrant in this country? Really? Really? Are you going to have the military go around armed and knock down doors and drag people out of their homes and throw them in a truck and send them back over? Are you willing to destroy the economy and businesses as well?
No. Just please don't pile your shit of how effective government is in one sentence then say "impossible" in the next for the sole reason of fitting your agenda. You make yourself look stupider than you already are. And I'm not going to go into a full page again but you don't need to round up illegals. Enforce the laws in place and they'll leave the same way the arrived.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:02 AM
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:06 AM   #40
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No. Just please don't pile your shit of how effective government is in one sentence then say "impossible" in the next for the sole reason of fitting your agenda. You make yourself look stupider than you already are. And I'm not going to go into a full page again but you don't need to round up illegals. Enforce the laws in place and they'll leave the same way the arrived.
Where in my previous posts in this thread did I say the government is effective? I said they could either come up with a solution or keep the status quo. The only one looking stupid is the one that can't read.

They are trying for the most part to enforce the laws they don't have enough manpower, money and time to find 11 million illegals.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:10 AM   #41
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...t-immigration/

Five things economists know about immigration
Posted by Dylan Matthews
on January 29, 2013 at 9:30 am

Few areas of economics have provoked as much fruitful research as immigration, and while disagreements remain, there are at least a few things we can glean from that literature. Here are just a few of them.

1. It’s really good for immigrants

File this one under “duh,” but immigration is a great deal for immigrants, and an even better one than it was during previous eras of mass immigration. Lant Pritchett, a professor at the Harvard Kennedy School and author of Let Their People Come, a great book on the economics of immigration, produced this graph comparing wage gaps between immigrants’ destinations and countries of origins in the 19th century to those gaps in more modern times:



In the 1870s, workers in Ireland could double their wages by coming to the United States. In the 1990s, workers in Guatemala could raise their wages sixfold by coming to the Unted States. In another study, the University of Wisconsin’s John Keenan estimated that completely opening the borders would increase the average developing country worker’s salary from $8,903 to $19,272 — more than double.

2. It’s very good for the economy as a whole

Economists have tried to put a dollar figure on how much the world economy would grow if we just removed all immigration restrictions overnight. The answer: a lot. Angel Aguiar and Terrie Walmsley modeled the effects of three U.S. policy alternatives — full deportation of Mexican immigrants, full legalization and full legalization with increased border control — and found, unsurprisingly, that full deportation reduces gross domestic product and the others would add. Deportation reduces GDP by 0.61 percent, legalization with border control increases it by 0.17 percent and legalization without border control increases it by 0.53 percent.

Pritchett, meanwhile, compared what open borders would do to world GDP, compared to completely free movement of capital and completely free trade with developing countries. It’s not even close. Open borders increase world GDP by $65 trillion. Let me repeat that. $65 trillion — with a ‘t’. The others don’t even come close:



3. It increases innovation

Businessweek’s Charles Kenny, who’s also a fellow at the Center for Global Development, highlighted a slew of studies suggesting that high-skilled immigration is key to innovation in America. Foreign nationals living in the United States accounted for 25.6 percent of all patent applications and founded 26 percent of start-ups, including a majority of Silicon Valley start-ups. In addition, an increase in immigrants with higher education diplomas is associated with an increase in patenting. Charles Lin at Rutgers found that an expansion of high-skilled visas passed in 1998 increased revenue at affected companies by 15 percent.

4. The typical native-born worker probably benefits

There’s a lot of debate on this one. A 2010 white paper by Gianmarco Ottaviano, Giovanni Peri and Greg Wright found that less expensive immigrant labor has a “positive net effect on native employment.” In another paper, Peri found that U.S. immigration from 1990 to 2006 increased real wages by 2.86 percent. Put together, Peri’s research forms the strongest basis for arguing that immigration increases wages for native-born American workers. Patricia Cortes at Unviersity of Chicago has confirmed his findings, Heidi Sheirholz at EPI and Raϊl Hinojosa-Ojeda at the Center for American Progress, similarly, have found across-the-board gains from immigration (or, in the latter case, comprehensive immigration reform) to wages.

George Borjas and Lawrence Katz, two Harvard labor economists who tend to be more skeptical of the benefits from immigration, beg to differ. Between 1980 and 2000, U.S. workers saw their wages fall in the short-run by 3.4 percent due to immigration. In the long-run, the economy adjusts such that the overall effect is minimal, but the short term figures are still a cause for concern.

Unsurprisingly, Peri and Ottaviano dispute Borjas and Katz’s methodology. They argue that Borjas and Katz inaccurately assume that U.S. and foreign workers are perfect substitutes. That’s a problematic assumption, since immigrants tend to do a different kind of labor, one which might not even exist in their absence. “[Immigration opponents] say ‘we Americans could do the job!’ but they don’t say ‘we’ll do the job at a significantly higher price at which the job wouldn’t exist,’” said Jagdish Bhagwati, a trade and immigration economist at Columbia and the Council on Foreign Relations. Borjas and Katz also neglect the indirect benefits that immigration provides to all groups through increasing growth.

But even taking Borjas and Katz at face value, the two groups’ estimates aren’t that far off from each other when you look at the long-run, as this chart from Michael Greenstone and Adam Looney at the Hamilton Project shows.



Everyone agrees that high school grads and people with some college benefit in the long run and despite their short-run estimates, even Borjas and Katz show a mildly positive overall effect in the long run. The dispute is about what happens at the low-end.

5. Low-skilled immigrants probably don’t see any effect

That’s what Peri’s findings say above, and they’re confirmed in two notable studies, by David Card and Rachel Friedberg, which found that the Mariel boatlift (which brought upwards of 100,000 immigrants to Miami in 1980) and the early 1990s Russian Jewish migration to Israel, respectively, did not decrease native employment or wages. Both were big events. The boatlift increased Miami’s population by 7 percent, and the Russian migration increased Israel’s population by 12 percent.

The advantage of these studies is that they isolate what economists call a “supply shock” to labor. All of the sudden, for reasons unrelated to other factors in the economy, the supply of labor increased. That makes it easier to determine what that shock’s effects are, because it’s not itself caused by other factors in the economy. This increased Card and Friedberg’s confidence that there really wasn’t an effect on wages from the sudden influx of immigrants. But other studies have found this as well. Peri argues that while low-skilled native workers suffer due to liberalized immigration in the short-run, they aren’t affected in the long-run.

Of course, Borjas, Katz and other skeptics argue that low-skilled immigration very clearly reduces wages and employment for low-skilled American workers. The issue is, as yet, unresolved. But the consensus view among economists is that the effect, even if negative, is negligible.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:13 AM   #42
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Again, I see no reason why the Republicans should go along with anything bipartisan bill. There is no chance in hell Obama or the Democrats (i.e. the MSM) will give one ounce of credit to the Republicans for doing anything on this front. Meanwhile it puts them in a permanent minority party-wise.

What's going to happen to all those jobs that most Americans won't do becasue they are demeaning and low-paying? Go away? Great way to boost those unemployment numbers and place 11 million more on the already over-burdened government till.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:19 AM   #43
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Again, I see no reason why the Republicans should go along with anything bipartisan bill. There is no chance in hell Obama or the Democrats (i.e. the MSM) will give one ounce of credit to the Republicans for doing anything on this front. Meanwhile it puts them in a permanent minority party-wise.

What's going to happen to all those jobs that most Americans won't do becasue they are demeaning and low-paying? Go away? Great way to boost those unemployment numbers and place 11 million more on the already over-burdened government till.
So you would rather not try to fix our immigration problem because of politics is that what you are saying?
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:22 AM   #44
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I think it's a net loss for Republicans, but I think it's an even more severe blow to the party to resist it.

At least this way the GOP can claim it had a significant hand in this. That will allow the tide to turn their way some day, if it ever does.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:28 AM   #45
donkhater donkhater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
So you would rather not try to fix our immigration problem because of politics is that what you are saying?
Not at all. I just think the Republican party gets nothing out of this. This bill sets them up to be irrelevant in National elections. they are shooting themselves in the head. I don't respect any Republican that doesn't have the common sense to realize that.
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