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Old 01-27-2013, 03:41 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Comprehensive immigation reform on its way, McCain again involved.

UPDATED TO INCLUDE THE ACTUAL PROPOSAL

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ration-reform/

READ: Senators release bipartisan plan for immigration reform
Posted by Brad Plumer
on January 28, 2013 at 9:42 am

A bipartisan group of senators has just unveiled a new proposed framework for overhauling the U.S. immigration system.

The big feature here is that current undocumented immigrants in the United States with otherwise clean legal records could achieve legal residency after paying a fine and back taxes. But a path to full citizenship would only be offered after measures to prevent further illegal immigration are in place.

The proposal also includes new border security, more stringent checks on immigrants with visas, and programs to help businesses verify the legal status of their employees.

Read the full proposal below:

——

Bipartisan Framework for Comprehensive Immigration Reform

From Senators Chuck Schumer, John McCain, Dick Durbin, Lindsey Graham, Robert Menendez, Marco Rubio, Michael Bennet, and Jeff Flake

Introduction:

We recognize that our immigration system is broken. And while border security has improved significantly over the last two Administrations, we still don’t have a functioning immigration system. This has created a situation where up to 11 million undocumented immigrants are living in the shadows. Our legislation acknowledges these realities by finally committing the resources needed to secure the border, modernize and streamline our current legal immigration system, while creating a tough but fair legalization program for individuals who are currently here. We will ensure that this is a successful permanent reform to our immigration system that will not need to be revisited.

Four Basic Legislative Pillars:

1. Create a tough but fair path to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants currently living in the United States that is contingent upon securing our borders and tracking whether legal immigrants have left the country when required;

2. Reform our legal immigration system to better recognize the importance of characteristics that will help build the American economy and strengthen American families;

3. Create an effective employment verification system that will prevent identity theft and end the hiring of future unauthorized workers; and,

4. Establish an improved process for admitting future workers to serve our nation’s workforce needs, while simultaneously protecting all workers.

1. Creating a Path to Citizenship for Unauthorized Immigrants Already Here that is Contingent Upon Securing the Border and Combating Visa Overstays

- Our legislation will provide a tough, fair, and practical roadmap to address the status of unauthorized immigrants in the United States that is contingent upon our success in securing our borders and addressing visa overstays.

- To fulfill the basic governmental function of securing our borders, we will continue the increased efforts of the Border Patrol by providing them with the latest technology, infrastructure, and personnel needed to prevent, detect, and apprehend every unauthorized entrant.

- Additionally, our legislation will increase the number of unmanned aerial vehicles and surveillance equipment, improve radio interoperability and increase the number of agents at and between ports of entry. The purpose is to substantially lower the number of successful illegal border crossings while continuing to facilitate commerce.

- We will strengthen prohibitions against racial profiling and inappropriate use of force, enhance the training of border patrol agents, increase oversight, and create a mechanism to ensure a meaningful opportunity for border communities to share input, including critiques.

- Our legislation will require the completion of an entry-exit system that tracks whether all persons entering the United States on temporary visas via airports and seaports have left the country as required by law.

- We recognize that Americans living along the Southwest border are key to recognizing and understanding when the border is truly secure. Our legislation will create a commission comprised of governors, attorneys general, and community leaders living along the Southwest border to monitor the progress of securing our border and to make a recommendation regarding when the bill’s security measures outlined in the legislation are completed.

- While these security measures are being put into place, we will simultaneously require those who came or remained in the United States without our permission to register with the government. This will include passing a background check and settling their debt to society by paying a fine and back taxes, in order to earn probationary legal status, which will allow them to live and work legally in the United States. Individuals with a serious criminal background or others who pose a threat to our national security will be ineligible for legal status and subject to deportation. Illegal immigrants who have committed serious crimes face immediate deportation.

- We will demonstrate our commitment to securing our borders and combating visa overstays by requiring our proposed enforcement measures be complete before any immigrant on probationary status can earn a green card.

- Current restrictions preventing non-immigrants from accessing federal public benefits will also apply to lawful probationary immigrants.

- Once the enforcement measures have been completed, individuals with probationary legal status will be required to go to the back of the line of prospective immigrants, pass an additional background check, pay taxes, learn English and civics, demonstrate a history of work in the United States, and current employment, among other requirements, in order to earn the opportunity to apply for lawful permanent residency. Those individuals who successfully complete these requirements can eventually earn a green card.

- Individuals who are present without lawful status – not including people within the two categories identified below – will only receive a green card after every individual who is already waiting in line for a green card, at the time this legislation is enacted, has received their green card. Our purpose is to ensure that no one who has violated America’s immigration laws will receive preferential treatment as they relate to those individuals who have complied with the law.

- Our legislation also recognizes that the circumstances and the conduct of people without lawful status are not the same, and cannot be addressed identically.

For instance, individuals who entered the United States as minor children did not knowingly choose to violate any immigration laws. Consequently, under our proposal these individuals will not face the same requirements as other individuals in order to earn a path to citizenship.

Similarly, individuals who have been working without legal status in the United States agricultural industry have been performing very important and difficult work to maintain America’s food supply while earning subsistence wages. Due to the utmost importance in our nation maintaining the safety of its food supply, agricultural workers who commit to the long term stability of our nation’s agricultural industries will be treated differently than the rest of the undocumented population because of the role they play in ensuring that Americans have safe and secure agricultural products to sell and consume. These individuals will earn a path to citizenship through a different process under our new agricultural worker program.

2. Improving our Legal Immigration System and Attracting the World’s Best and Brightest

- The development of a rational legal immigration system is essential to ensuring America’s future economic prosperity. Our failure to act is perpetuating a broken system which sadly discourages the world’s best and brightest citizens from coming to the United States and remaining in our country to contribute to our economy. This failure makes a legal path to entry in the United States insurmountably difficult for well-meaning immigrants. This unarguably discourages innovation and economic growth. It has also created substantial visa backlogs which force families to live apart, which incentivizes illegal immigration.

- Our new immigration system must be more focused on recognizing the important characteristics which will help build the American economy and strengthen American families. Additionally, we must reduce backlogs in the family and employment visa categories so that future immigrants view our future legal immigration system as the exclusive means for entry into the United States.

- The United States must do a better job of attracting and keeping the world’s best and brightest. As such, our immigration proposal will award a green card to immigrants who have received a PhD or Master’s degree in science, technology, engineering, or math from an American university. It makes no sense to educate the world’s future innovators and entrepreneurs only to ultimately force them to leave our country at the moment they are most able to contribute to our economy.

3. Strong Employment Verification

- We recognize that undocumented immigrants come to the United States almost exclusively for jobs. As such, dramatically reducing future illegal immigration can only be achieved by developing a tough, fair, effective and mandatory employment verification system. An employment verification system must hold employers accountable for knowingly hiring undocumented workers and make it more difficult for unauthorized immigrants to falsify documents to obtain employment. Employers who knowingly hire unauthorized workers must face stiff fines and criminal penalties for egregious offenses.

- We believe the federal government must provide U.S. employers with a fast and reliable method to confirm whether new hires are legally authorized to work in the United States. This is essential to ensure the effective enforcement of immigration laws.

- Our proposal will create an effective employment verification system which prevents identity theft and ends the hiring of future unauthorized workers. We believe requiring prospective workers to demonstrate both legal status and identity, through non-forgeable electronic means prior to obtaining employment, is essential to an employee verification system; and,

- The employee verification system in our proposal will be crafted with procedural safeguards to protect American workers, prevent identity theft, and provide due process protections.

4. Admitting New Workers and Protecting Workers’ Rights

- The overwhelming majority of the 327,000 illegal entrants apprehended by CBP in FY2011 were seeking employment in the United States. We recognize that to prevent future waves of illegal immigration a humane and effective system needs to be created for these immigrant workers to enter the country and find employment without seeking the aid of human traffickers or drug cartels.

- Our proposal will provide businesses with the ability to hire lower-skilled workers in a timely manner when Americans are unavailable or unwilling to fill those jobs.

Our legislation would:

- Allow employers to hire immigrants if it can be demonstrated that they were unsuccessful in recruiting an American to fill an open position and the hiring of an immigrant will not displace American workers;

- Create a workable program to meet the needs of America’s agricultural industry, including dairy to find agricultural workers when American workers are not available to fill open positions;

- Allow more lower-skilled immigrants to come here when our economy is creating jobs, and fewer when our economy is not creating jobs;

- Protect workers by ensuring strong labor protections; and,

- Permit workers who have succeeded in the workplace and contributed to their communities over many years to earn green cards.

Last edited by Direckshun; 01-28-2013 at 08:27 AM..
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:45 AM   #46
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The problem: you risk losing an entire demographic for a generation or more if you get in the way of it, donkhater.

Better to control your losses rather than to surrender to them.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:10 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The problem: you risk losing an entire demographic for a generation or more if you get in the way of it, donkhater.

Better to control your losses rather than to surrender to them.
Lmao, you probly said the same thing in 1986 too. That sure worked out for the GOP. Look at all the souls St Reagan won for the party! (Snicker-laugh laugh)



Of course, the GOP *could* become the party of less government and be willing to change on some basic economic issues to attract Hispanics that way....without giving up on border security. But that is too obvious for them (and you) to understand.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:28 PM   #48
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Not at all. I just think the Republican party gets nothing out of this. This bill sets them up to be irrelevant in National elections. they are shooting themselves in the head. I don't respect any Republican that doesn't have the common sense to realize that.
Ok but who cares?
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:30 PM   #49
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Heh. That is a bit of a head scratcher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
So you would rather not try to fix our immigration problem because of politics is that what you are saying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkhater View Post
Not at all. I just think the Republican party gets nothing out of this. This bill sets them up to be irrelevant in National elections. they are shooting themselves in the head. I don't respect any Republican that doesn't have the common sense to realize that.
Donkhater responded to your accusation that he's opposed due to politics by essentially confirming he's opposed to it due to the politics.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:37 PM   #50
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Hard to argue with most of this.

Seems to be a nudging of the Senate plan to the left.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...tion-proposal/

READ: President Obama’s immigration proposal
Posted by Ezra Klein
on January 29, 2013 at 3:00 pm

Here’s the White House’s immigration framework, which is similar to the Senate’s Gang of 8 framework, and to the White House’s May 2011 plan. If anything, their May 2011 plan was more detailed.

In his speech in Las Vegas this afternoon, President Obama warned that ”If Congress is unable to move forward in a timely fashion, I will send them a bill based on my proposal and insist they vote on it right away.” The text of White House’s proposal follows:

FACT SHEET: Fixing our Broken Immigration System so Everyone Plays by the Rules

America’s immigration system is broken. Too many employers game the system by hiring undocumented workers and there are 11 million people living in the shadows. Neither is good for the economy or the country.

It is time to act to fix the broken immigration system in a way that requires responsibility from everyone —both from the workers here illegally and those who hire them—and guarantees that everyone is playing by the same rules.

President Obama’s commonsense immigration reform proposal has four parts. First, continue to strengthen our borders. Second, crack down on companies that hire undocumented workers. Third, hold undocumented immigrants accountable before they can earn their citizenship; this means requiring undocumented workers to pay their taxes and a penalty, move to the back of the line, learn English, and pass background checks. Fourth, streamline the legal immigration system for families, workers, and employers.

Together we can build a fair, effective and commonsense immigration system that lives up to our heritage as a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants.

The key principles the President believes should be included in commonsense immigration reform are:

Continuing to Strengthen Border Security: President Obama has doubled the number of Border Patrol agents since 2004 and today border security is stronger than it has ever been. But there is more work to do. The President’s proposal gives law enforcement the tools they need to make our communities safer from crime. And by enhancing our infrastructure and technology, the President’s proposal continues to strengthen our ability to remove criminals and apprehend and prosecute national security threats.

Cracking Down on Employers Hiring Undocumented Workers: Our businesses should only employ people legally authorized to work in the United States. Businesses that knowingly employ undocumented workers are exploiting the system to gain an advantage over businesses that play by the rules. The President’s proposal is designed to stop these unfair hiring practices and hold these companies accountable. At the same time, this proposal gives employers who want to play by the rules a reliable way to verify that their employees are here legally.

Earned Citizenship: It is just not practical to deport 11 million undocumented immigrants living within our borders. The President’s proposal provides undocumented immigrants a legal way to earn citizenship that will encourage them to come out of the shadows so they can pay their taxes and play by the same rules as everyone else. Immigrants living here illegally must be held responsible for their actions by passing national security and criminal background checks, paying taxes and a penalty, going to the back of the line, and learning English before they can earn their citizenship. There will be no uncertainty about their ability to become U.S. citizens if they meet these eligibility criteria. The proposal will also stop punishing innocent young people brought to the country through no fault of their own by their parents and give them a chance to earn their citizenship more quickly if they serve in the military or pursue higher education.

Streamlining Legal Immigration: Our immigration system should reward anyone who is willing to work hard and play by the rules. For the sake of our economy and our security, legal immigration should be simple and efficient. The President’s proposal attracts the best minds to America by providing visas to foreign entrepreneurs looking to start businesses here and helping the most promising foreign graduate students in science and math stay in this country after graduation, rather than take their skills to other countries. The President’s proposal will also reunify families in a timely and humane manner.

Continuing to Strengthen Border Security

Strengthen border security and infrastructure. The President’s proposal strengthens and improves infrastructure at ports of entry, facilitates public-private partnerships aimed at increasing investment in foreign visitor processing, and continues supporting the use of technologies that help to secure the land and maritime borders of the United States.

Combat transnational crime. The President’s proposal creates new criminal penalties dedicated to combating transnational criminal organizations that traffic in drugs, weapons, and money, and that smuggle people across the borders. It also expands the scope of current law to allow for the forfeiture of these organizations’ criminal tools and proceeds. Through this approach, we will bolster our efforts to deprive criminal enterprises, including those operating along the Southwest border, of their infrastructure and profits.

Improve partnerships with border communities and law enforcement. The President’s proposal expands our ability to work with our cross-border law enforcement partners. Community trust and cooperation are keys to effective law enforcement. To this end, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) will establish border community liaisons along the Southern and Northern borders to improve communication and collaboration with border communities, boost funding to tribal government partners to reduce illegal activity on tribal lands, and strengthen training on civil rights and civil liberties for DHS immigration officers.

Crack down on criminal networks engaging in passport and visa fraud and human smuggling. The President’s proposal creates tough criminal penalties for trafficking in passports and immigration documents and schemes to defraud, including those who prey on vulnerable immigrants through notario fraud. It also strengthens penalties to combat human smuggling rings.

Deporting Criminals. The President’s proposal expands smart enforcement efforts that target convicted criminals in federal or state correctional facilities, allowing us to remove them from the United States at the end of their sentences without re-entering our communities. At the same time, it protects those with a credible fear of returning to their home countries.

Streamline removal of nonimmigrant national security and public safety threats. The President’s proposal creates a streamlined administrative removal process for people who overstay their visas and have been determined to be threats to national security and public safety.

Improve our nation’s immigration courts. The President’s proposal invests in our immigration courts. By increasing the number of immigration judges and their staff, investing in training for court personnel, and improving access to legal information for immigrants, these reforms will improve court efficiency. It allows DHS to better focus its detention resources on public safety and national security threats by expanding alternatives to detention and reducing overall detention costs. It also provides greater protections for those least able to represent themselves.

Cracking Down on Employers Who Hire Undocumented Workers

Mandatory, phased-in electronic employment verification. The President’s proposal provides tools for employers to ensure a legal workforce by using federal government databases to verify that the people they hire are eligible to work in the United States. Penalties for hiring undocumented workers are significantly increased, and new penalties are established for committing fraud and identity theft. The new mandatory program ensures the privacy and confidentiality of all workers’ personal information and includes important procedural protections. Mandatory electronic employment verification would be phased in over five years with exemptions for certain small businesses.

Combat fraud and identity theft. The proposal also mandates a fraud‐resistant, tamper‐resistant Social Security card and requires workers to use fraud‐and tamper‐resistant documents to prove authorization to work in the United States. The proposal also seeks to establish a voluntary pilot program to evaluate new methods to authenticate identity and combat identity theft.

Protections for all workers. The President’s proposal protects workers against retaliation for exercising their labor rights. It increases the penalties for employers who hire undocumented workers to skirt the workplace standards that protect all workers. And it creates a “labor law enforcement fund” to help ensure that industries that employ significant numbers of immigrant workers comply with labor laws.

Pathway to Earned Citizenship

Create a provisional legal status. Undocumented immigrants must come forward and register, submit biometric data, pass criminal background and national security checks, and pay fees and penalties before they will be eligible for a provisional legal status. Agricultural workers and those who entered the United States as children would be eligible for the same program. Individuals must wait until the existing legal immigration backlogs are cleared before getting in line to apply for lawful permanent residency (i.e. a “green card”), and ultimately United States citizenship. Consistent with current law, people with provisional legal status will not be eligible for welfare or other federal benefits, including subsidies or tax credits under the new health care law.

Create strict requirements to qualify for lawful permanent resident status. Those applying for green cards must pay their taxes, pass additional criminal background and national security checks, register for Selective Service (where applicable), pay additional fees and penalties, and learn English and U.S. civics. As under current law, five years after receiving a green card, individuals will be eligible to apply for U.S. citizenship like every other legal permanent resident.

Earned citizenship for DREAMers. Children brought here illegally through no fault of their own by their parents will be eligible for earned citizenship. By going to college or serving honorably in the Armed Forces for at least two years, these children should be given an expedited opportunity to earn their citizenship. The President’s proposal brings these undocumented immigrants out of the shadows.

Create administrative and judicial review. An individual whose provisional lawful status has been revoked or denied, or whose application for adjustment has been denied, will have the opportunity to seek administrative and judicial review of those decisions.

Provide new resources to combat fraud. The President’s proposal authorizes funding to enable DHS, the Department of State, and other relevant federal agencies to establish fraud prevention programs that will provide training for adjudicators, allow regular audits of applications to identify patterns of fraud and abuse, and incorporate other proven fraud prevention measures.

Streamlining Legal Immigration

Keep Families Together. The proposal seeks to eliminate existing backlogs in the family-sponsored immigration system by recapturing unused visas and temporarily increasing annual visa numbers. The proposal also raises existing annual country caps from 7 percent to 15 percent for the family-sponsored immigration system. It also treats same-sex families as families by giving U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents the ability to seek a visa on the basis of a permanent relationship with a same-sex partner. The proposal also revises current unlawful presence bars and provides broader discretion to waive bars in cases of hardship.

Cut Red Tape for Employers. The proposal also eliminates the backlog for employment-sponsored immigration by eliminating annual country caps and adding additional visas to the system. Outdated legal immigration programs are reformed to meet current and future demands by exempting certain categories from annual visa limitations.

Enhance travel and tourism. The Administration is committed to increasing U.S. travel and tourism by facilitating legitimate travel while maintaining our nation’s security. Consistent with the President’s Executive Order on travel and tourism, the President’s proposal securely streamlines visa and foreign visitor processing. It also strengthens law enforcement cooperation while maintaining the program’s robust counterterrorism and criminal information sharing initiatives. It facilitates more efficient travel by allowing greater flexibility to designate countries for participation in the Visa Waiver Program, which allows citizens of designated countries to visit the United States without obtaining a visa. And finally it permits the State Department to waive interview requirements for certain very low-risk visa applicants, permitting resources to be focused on higher risk applicants and creates a pilot for premium visa processing.

“Staple” green cards to advanced STEM diplomas. The proposal encourages foreign graduate students educated in the United States to stay here and contribute to our economy by “stapling” a green card to the diplomas of science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) PhD and Master’s Degree graduates from qualified U.S. universities who have found employment in the United States. It also requires employers to pay a fee that will support education and training to grow the next generation of American workers in STEM careers.

Create a “startup visa” for job-creating entrepreneurs. The proposal allows foreign entrepreneurs who attract financing from U.S. investors or revenue from U.S. customers to start and grow their businesses in the United States, and to remain permanently if their companies grow further, create jobs for American workers, and strengthen our economy.

Expand opportunities for investor visas and U.S. economic development. The proposal permanently authorizes immigrant visa opportunities for regional center (pooled investment) programs; provides incentives for visa requestors to invest in programs that support national priorities, including economic development in rural and economically depressed regions ; adds new measures to combat fraud and national security threats; includes data collection on economic impact; and creates a pilot program for state and local government officials to promote economic development.

Create a new visa category for employees of federal national security science and technology laboratories. The proposal creates a new visa category for a limited number of highly-skilled and specialized immigrants to work in federal science and technology laboratories on critical national security needs after being in the United States. for two years and passing rigorous national security and criminal background checks.

Better addresses humanitarian concerns. The proposal streamlines immigration law to better protect vulnerable immigrants, including those who are victims of crime and domestic violence. It also better protects those fleeing persecution by eliminating the existing limitations that prevent qualified individuals from applying for asylum.

Encourage integration. The proposal promotes earned citizenship and efforts to integrate immigrants into their new American communities linguistically, civically, and economically.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:40 PM   #51
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You live in reality or you don't. There is no way to deport 11 million people so either come up with a solution or keep the status quo. Which do you prefer?
Which reality you living in? The one where we don't enforce laws of illegals breaking into a country but put people in jail for pot and not paying child support? Breaking into many countries would get you shot by the way. Or are you in the reality of not enforcing the laws in place to win votes?

Is there where you say "but what about the children" or "thank God we're not that country"?
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:54 PM   #52
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Ok but who cares?
The Dems sure don't. Why would they?

This is no different than Democrats blocking Right to Work legislation. So what if it solves important economic issues, a Democrat would be commiting political suicide to vote for it.

There are other ways to mitigate the impact of illegal immigrants on the country.

First and foremost, legalize drugs. The gang wars in Mexico and on the border drive decent Hispanics out of Mexico to search for safer places to live. I don't blame them one bit.

Allow illegals to purchase private health insurance. Of course, this is a rational free-market approach that would have to be a part of larger health reform that doesn't enslave millions of people, so naturally the Democrats wouldn't go for it and demagouge it to death, but it's better than the alternative.

Lastly, eliminate the minimum wage. The narrative is that there are jobs that Americans won't do, but the truth is that there are jobs that illegals undercut wages to get. By eliminating the minimum wage, illegal immigrants no longer have the inside track on millions of jobs. Thus, less motivation to immigrate to America.

Notice that all of my proposals call for the REDUCTION or ELIMINATION of laws not the creation of new ones. So, breath easy, dirk and Derickshun, they won't be implemented. Doesn't mean that the alternatives should, though.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:00 PM   #53
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Which reality you living in? The one where we don't enforce laws of illegals breaking into a country but put people in jail for pot and not paying child support? Breaking into many countries would get you shot by the way. Or are you in the reality of not enforcing the laws in place to win votes?

Is there where you say "but what about the children" or "thank God we're not that country"?
I live in the reality that the USA is not like any other country in the world and we don't kill people who come to this country illegally. This country was founded by immigrants legally and illegally.

That doesn't mean we don't try to enforce our laws and when we catch them we send them back. But anybody with a brain knows there is too many to round up so we need a system that protects the border the best we can and get the illegals that are here out of the shadows and on the path to be being legal.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:12 PM   #54
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The Dems sure don't. Why would they?

This is no different than Democrats blocking Right to Work legislation. So what if it solves important economic issues, a Democrat would be commiting political suicide to vote for it.

There are other ways to mitigate the impact of illegal immigrants on the country.

First and foremost, legalize drugs. The gang wars in Mexico and on the border drive decent Hispanics out of Mexico to search for safer places to live. I don't blame them one bit.

Allow illegals to purchase private health insurance. Of course, this is a rational free-market approach that would have to be a part of larger health reform that doesn't enslave millions of people, so naturally the Democrats wouldn't go for it and demagouge it to death, but it's better than the alternative.

Lastly, eliminate the minimum wage. The narrative is that there are jobs that Americans won't do, but the truth is that there are jobs that illegals undercut wages to get. By eliminating the minimum wage, illegal immigrants no longer have the inside track on millions of jobs. Thus, less motivation to immigrate to America.

Notice that all of my proposals call for the REDUCTION or ELIMINATION of laws not the creation of new ones. So, breath easy, dirk and Derickshun, they won't be implemented. Doesn't mean that the alternatives should, though.
I don't care about what the Dems think politically either on this issue. The problem needs to be fixed as best as the government can do as long as it is fair and reasonable.

As far as your ideas you presented:

1. Legalize Drugs: You make a good point about the Cartels and the violence that happens in Mexico because of them but I just don't see realistically legalizing any drugs outside of pot. And people are even fighting that one.

2. Buy private health insurance: Interesting idea

3. Eliminate minimum wage: Definite no. Corporations would screw so many people and we would be back to slave labor like China. No thanks.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:13 PM   #55
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Some skeptics still abound.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/28/thre...orm_will_pass/

3 reasons to be skeptical that immigration reform will pass
Senate leaders are optimistic, but here's why you shouldn't expect anything to happen
By Alex Pareene
Monday, Jan 28, 2013 02:35 PM CST

The big story out of Washington today is that a bipartisan “gang” of senators tentatively agree on a “framework” for comprehensive immigration reform. And it’s not just another variation on the increasingly limited Dream Act: It’s got a real path to citizenship for millions of undocumented immigrants. Harry Reid is going to make it a top priority. Longtime immigration reform supporter John McCain, who opportunistically turned against reform a few years ago, is back on board. Conservative golden boy Marco Rubio is pushing Republicans to accept it. The bill could be on the president’s desk by spring.

Except it’s all going to blow up. For three simple reasons:

Lindsey Graham

One member of the “gang of eight” is, naturally, Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina Republican who is always joining gangs with his best friend John McCain. That’s a bad sign. Because Lindsey Graham is a pathological deal-killer. He lives to bargain endlessly and then pull out at the last minute. Lindsey Graham is the master of refusing to support things he actually supports because a Democrat hurt his feelings. He withdrew his support for immigration reform in 2010 because the Senate planned to also consider climate legislation, another policy he claimed to support. He reneged on the Dream Act. He promised that he was working on immigration reform with Chuck Schumer two years ago and nothing happened.

The problem is, Graham is actually necessary for the bill to pass the Senate, and whenever his vote is crucial, he responds by withholding it. Here’s the National Journal’s Fawn Johnson explaining the Senate situation:

Quote:
Advocates expect to lose at least five Democrats in the Senate, which means they will need upwards of a dozen Republicans to vote for the legislation. That’s where Rubio and other Tea Party favorites like Senator Mike Lee of Utah will come into play. Rubio and Lee are newcomers to an old discussion among Republican veterans like McCain and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Newly elected Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona will be a key Republican player as well.
If history is any guide, Graham will continue carefully negotiating and signaling his support for the proposal until he is forced to withdraw his support at the last minute because of some entirely unrelated bit of Senate business.

(Rubio could also end up killing this thing by requiring that nativist Southwestern Republican politicians get veto power over the citizenship provisions. It’d suit his purposes just fine to be seen as a guy who tried to get an immigration deal done but was stymied when Democrats asked too much of him.)

House Republicans

The problem comprehensive immigration reform ran into last time is that Republicans don’t want it. The business community wants it, obviously, but Republicans forced to choose between donors and their right-wing white constituents are generally more terrified of pissing off their constituents. Right-wing nativism has declined a bit since its recent height in 2010, but it’s still arguably worse than it was in 2006, when mass conservative revolt killed the last deal.

As all of America’s recent legislative fights have shown, House Republicans are protected from national anti-conservative trends by very safe and conservative districts. They are more vulnerable to getting primaried than they are to losing to moderates or Democrats in a general election. A majority of Americans may now support a path to citizenship, but a majority of Americans also support hiking taxes on the rich, and the GOP nearly shut down the government rather than agree to that.

And Johnson basically acknowledges that … no suitable deal can pass the House:

Quote:
Next comes the House, where Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., is in no hurry to rush any broad legislation. Goodlatte’s main objective is much more modest — to familiarize his committee members with immigration policy such that they understand the difference between a work visa and a green card. There are not enough Republican votes in the House to pass anything that would earn Obama’s signature or the nod from Senate Democrats.
Which means that the entire deal rests on Speaker John Boehner again bringing a major, controversial bill to the floor without a majority of Republican support, and relying on Democratic votes for its passage. I’m not sure he can do that again without ending his career. I imagine he’d be perfectly fine with killing whatever the Senate passes and allowing his caucus to pass some sort of “flying border drones and giant fences only” version of “immigration reform” instead.

The Right-wing Press

While some elite-backed elements of the right-wing press will fall in line — Murdoch will keep his media organs on his side of the immigration debate — the “grass-roots”conservative press is going to react the same way it did in 2006, when they helped kill their own president’s immigration reform plan. National Review’s The Corner is currently like 75 percent hysterical accusations of betrayal from anti-immigration zealots like Mark Krikorian, who has written four separate lengthy posts decrying “amnesty” today alone. Michelle Malkin’s headline is “Suicidal GOP senators join open-borders Dems for Shamnesty Redux.”

The conservative media is the primary source of opinions and information not just for crazy comment section trolls, but for a terrifying number of actual Republican legislators. If they raise enough of a fuss, and they are already fussing quite a bit, signing on to “SHAMNESTY 2.0″ will become too toxic for all but a few Republicans.

I’d be thrilled to be wrong about any or all of this, but all of this sudden optimism around reform seems to ignore the last four years of American politics.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:36 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I don't care about what the Dems think politically either on this issue. The problem needs to be fixed as best as the government can do as long as it is fair and reasonable.


3. Eliminate minimum wage: Definite no. Corporations would screw so many people and we would be back to slave labor like China. No thanks.
So who do we enslave to undercut minimum wage laws and do the jobs 'Americans' won't do if we make all illegal immigrants legal?
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:46 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I live in the reality that the USA is not like any other country in the world and we don't kill people who come to this country illegally. This country was founded by immigrants legally and illegally.

That doesn't mean we don't try to enforce our laws and when we catch them we send them back. But anybody with a brain knows there is too many to round up so we need a system that protects the border the best we can and get the illegals that are here out of the shadows and on the path to be being legal.
The only one using the phrase "round them up" is you lefty libs who are looking for an excuse to not enforce the law.

I'll speak slowly this time: enforce the laws in place and they won't have a reason to stay. You know like needing to be a citizen to work and collect government benefits. Let me know how many times you need me to repeat that before it sinks in.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:38 PM   #58
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So who do we enslave to undercut minimum wage laws and do the jobs 'Americans' won't do if we make all illegal immigrants legal?
That's a fair question and one I don't have an answer to other than hopefully the illegals don't get the lazy gene once they are able to work legally.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:40 PM   #59
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The only one using the phrase "round them up" is you lefty libs who are looking for an excuse to not enforce the law.

I'll speak slowly this time: enforce the laws in place and they won't have a reason to stay. You know like needing to be a citizen to work and collect government benefits. Let me know how many times you need me to repeat that before it sinks in.
We already enforce the law the best we can retard. There is too many of them and we don't have enough manpower to get them all. It is not complicated.

Quote:
As of July 2012, Obama deported 1.4 million illegal immigrants since the beginning of his administration — that’s 1.5 times more immigrants on average than Bush deported every month, according to official numbers from the Department of Homeland Security
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:48 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter View Post
The only one using the phrase "round them up" is you lefty libs who are looking for an excuse to not enforce the law.

I'll speak slowly this time: enforce the laws in place and they won't have a reason to stay. You know like needing to be a citizen to work and collect government benefits. Let me know how many times you need me to repeat that before it sinks in.
Or maybe the rich business owners could quit giving them jobs without green cards....
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