UN Human Rights Council: Israel in violation of law, is approaching apartheid status.

[Direckshun]

As would surprise nobody who's refused to turn a blind eye to the plight of Palestinians, a UN council has examined what can only be charitably called modern day Palestine, and finds it in drastic, desperate denial of basic human rights.

The criticism stems largely from the settlement expansion, which remains a tremendous blight on the country.

It also takes note of settler terrorism, and how even basic infrastructure in Palestine, most notably schools, are poorly protected and are essentially in tatters.

If this isn't apartheid, people, it's right on the doorsteps.

The report: http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBod...ettlements.pdf

From the conclusions section:

103. The settlements are established and developed for the exclusive benefit of Israeli Jews; settlements are being maintained and developed through a system of total segregation between the settlers and the rest of the population living in the OPT. This system of segregation is supported and facilitated by a strict military and law enforcement control to the detriment of the rights of the Palestinian population.

104. The Mission considers that in relation to the settlements Israel is committing serious breaches of its obligations under the right to self-determination and "certain obligations under international humantarian law", including the obligation not to transfer its population into the POT.

105. The existence of the settlements has had a heavy toll on the rights of the Palestinians. Their rights to freedom of self-determination, non-discrimination, freedom of movement, equality, due process, fair trial, not to be arbitrarily detained, liberty and security of person, freedom of expression, freedom to access places of worship, education, water, housing, adequate standard of living, property, access to natural resources and effective remedy are being violated consistently and on a daily basis.

106. The volume of information received on dispossession, evictions, demolitions and displacement points to the magnitude of these practices. There are particularly widespread in certain areas and acute in East Jerusalem.

107. The Mission has noted that the identities of settlers who are responsible for violence and intimidation are known to the Israeli authorities, yet these acts continue with impunity. There is institutionalised discrimination against the Palestinian people when it comes to addressing violence. The Mission believes that the motivation behind this violence and the intimidation against the Palestinians as well as their properties is to drive the local populations away from their lands and allow the settlements to expand.

108. The Mission is gravely concerned at the high number of children who are apprehended or detained, including for minor offences. They are invariably mistreated, denied due process and fair trial. In violation of international law they are transferred to detention centers in Israel.

109. Children suffer harrassment, violence and encounter significant obstacles in attending educational institutions, which limits their right to access education.

111. Women alone intheir homes, the Bedouins and other vulnerable groups are easy targets for settler violence, creating a sense of insecurity amongst the wider Palestinian society.

Brutal.

[ForeverChiefs58]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Brutal.

The amount of the transfer varies from month to month, depending on how much the Palestinians happened to buy or import. Payments tend to be about $50 million, which covers around half of the Palestinian Authority's total operating expenses. I think that sounds really good, for such poor people.

Israel has decided to cut off the tax transfers several times over the past decade. Benjamin Netanyahu was the first to use the sanction, after a series of deadly suicide bombings in the summer of 1997. The Israelis stopped the transfers again with the start of the intifada in 2000; they withheld the Palestinian tax revenue for two years.

The palestinians claim they deserve this, but they don't. and it is wrongfully used to prop up the very gov't, that to cheers from the people, demand to throw the pig and ape jews into the sea. The ones who religiously quote the hadith that teaches to kill jews (See Egypt President Mohammed Morsi-The same one Obummer tries to prop up).

[Direckshun]

Jesus Christ.

At least link the article you're directly stealing from and passing off as your own thoughts.

Originally Posted by ForeverChiefs58

They collect customs duties and the "value-added tax" on imports that came through Israeli ports. If those imports end up in the Palestinian areas, Israel turns that money over to the PA.

Israel also sends back the value-added tax that Palestinians pay for Israeli goods, as well as any excise taxes that Palestinians have to pay for fuel, cigarettes, and alcohol.

Originally Posted by the article, circa 2006

Israel continued to collect customs duties and the "value-added tax" on imports that came through Israeli ports. But if those imports ended up in the Palestinian areas, Israel would have to turn that money over to the PA. Israel is also supposed to send back the value-added tax that Palestinians pay for Israeli goods, as well as any excise taxes that Palestinians have to pay for fuel, cigarettes, and alcohol.

Originally Posted by ForeverChiefs58

The amount of the transfer varies from month to month, depending on how much the Palestinians happened to buy or import. Payments tend to be about $50 million, which covers around half of the Palestinian Authority's total operating expenses. I think that sounds really good, for such poor people.

Israel has decided to cut off the tax transfers several times over the past decade. Benjamin Netanyahu was the first to use the sanction, after a series of deadly suicide bombings in the summer of 1997. The Israelis stopped the transfers again with the start of the intifada in 2000; they withheld the Palestinian tax revenue for two years.

Originally Posted by the article, circa 2006

The amount of the transfer varies from month to month, depending on how much the Palestinians happened to buy or import. Payments tend to be about $50 million, which covers around half of the Palestinian Authority's total operating expenses.

Israel has decided to cut off the tax transfers several times over the past decade. Benjamin Netanyahu was the first to use the sanction, after a series of deadly suicide bombings in the summer of 1997. The Israelis stopped the transfers again with the start of the intifada in 2000; they withheld the Palestinian tax revenue for two years.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...estinians.html

Your information is over half a decade out of date, moron. Israel has imposed various sanctions against Palestine since.

Normally I don't give a shit about what you say, since you're a fanatic, and the blatant plagiarizing of out of date articles to make yourself not sound like you foam at the mouth is one of a couple reasons why.

But we both know this is not the first time you've done it, and we both know most folks don't catch on when you do it.

[mikey23545]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Jesus Christ.

At least link the article you're directly stealing from and passing off as your own thoughts.









http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...estinians.html

Your information is over half a decade out of date, moron. Israel has imposed various sanctions against Palestine since.

Normally I don't give a shit about what you say, since you're a fanatic, and the blatant plagiarizing of out of date articles to make yourself not sound like you foam at the mouth is one of a couple reasons why.

But we both know this is not the first time you've done it, and we both know most folks don't catch on when you do it.

In other words, you can't refute his posts so you'll attack him personally.

Kind of like shooting rockets from across the border at citizens, or blowing up school buses.

What size bomb vest do you wear, anyway?

[mikey23545]

And at "half a decade out of date"...

Call it a "twentieth of a century" instead, that'll sound even more impressive, limpdick.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I'm not terribly familiar with Israeli citizenship laws, but do they actually allow non-Jewish citens? Seems....odd...

Yes they are full citizens of the state of Israel. Same rights as anyone with one exception .... the Arab political parties are not allowed to join the majority coalition of the ruling party.

They can vote for any Jewish political party but the Arab political parties have no political power. Zilch. Nada.

I've been torn about this since I lived there in the mid 80's. It's definitely discrimination based on religion. That is not what we believe and its not democracy at its finest.

In the middle east the past matters. When I was over there I worked on the project to record the stories and experiences on the Holocaust survivors. Sad to the bottom of your soul tragedy's that I will carry around with me to the day I become word food.

And I guess that's why I'm willing to support a democracy that only allows Jews to determine its path as a nation. After 2000+ years of persecution and death, they have a right to determine their own path.

[Direckshun]

Nobody's arguing that Jews deserve their own democracy that determine their own path.

Whether they get to deny the political and human rights of Palestinians is the question here.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Nobody's arguing that Jews deserve their own democracy that determine their own path.

Whether they get to deny the political and human rights of Palestinians is the question here.

My question is whether or not it's acceptable for palestinians to continue to deny the Israeli's political and human rights.

[theelusiveeightrop]

UN. Funny.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Nobody's arguing that Jews deserve their own democracy that determine their own path.

Whether they get to deny the political and human rights of Palestinians is the question here.

I'm for the two state solution. I think most Israeli's are too. The problem is security of that new Palestinian state. You are an Israeli sleeping in your bed and someone fires a rocket into a populated city and it lands in your childrens bedroom.

Until the security issue is resolved, nothing is going to be done. I believe that there will never be a lasting peace because the extremist on both sides will not allow it to happen. I'm totally surprised that a Hasidim group has not blown up the Dome of the rock yet.

And unfortunately if the Israel's are allowed to determine their own path, the Palestinians can't be involved. They need their own separate path.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I'm for the two state solution. I think most Israeli's are too. The problem is security of that new Palestinian state. You are an Israeli sleeping in your bed and someone fires a rocket into a populated city and it lands in your childrens bedroom.

Until the security issue is resolved, nothing is going to be done. I believe that there will never be a lasting peace because the extremist on both sides will not allow it to happen. I'm totally surprised that a Hasidim group has not blown up the Dome of the rock yet.

And unfortunately if the Israel's are allowed to determine their own path, the Palestinians can't be involved. They need their own separate path.

There are always violent nutjob extremists on all sides. Even the US has it's own violent nutjob extremists. But all sides don't have equal violent nutjob extremists. We should stop saying things like "extremists on both sides" when we talk about the Israeli/palestinian problem. The extremists on the palestinian side are by far the worse problem here and that needs to be pointed out with clarity, IMO.

Other than that, I tend agree with most of your takes on this subject.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by patteeu

There are always violent nutjob extremists on all sides. Even the US has it's own violent nutjob extremists. But all sides don't have equal violent nutjob extremists. We should stop saying things like "extremists on both sides" when we talk about the Israeli/palestinian problem. The extremists on the palestinian side are by far the worse problem here and that needs to be pointed out with clarity, IMO.

Other than that, I tend agree with most of your takes on this subject.

To add to my previous post: Israel's extremists are in a tiny minority and are not supported by the general population (as BRC points out, most Israelis support a two state solution, including the current Prime Minister despite what Direckshun might tell us). By contrast, most palestinians support their extremists (as evidenced by the popular electoral victory of Hamas in Gaza and the ineffectiveness of the PA to prevent the last round of violence in the West Bank territory).

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by patteeu

There are always violent nutjob extremists on all sides. Even the US has it's own violent nutjob extremists. But all sides don't have equal violent nutjob extremists. We should stop saying things like "extremists on both sides" when we talk about the Israeli/palestinian problem. The extremists on the palestinian side are by far the worse problem here and that needs to be pointed out with clarity, IMO.

Other than that, I tend agree with most of your takes on this subject.

I know in American politics there is always discussions about equivalency. But, with extermism there can be equivalency even though the numbers on one side is greater than the other side. It only takes a few to throw off the path of many.

I know most of you don't know shit about the ultra orthodox Jews. I lived with them in Jerusalem for a week as part of a program to educate Americans on what it is they believe and how they live their lives. So let me share some insight.....

Yes, there numbers are small, maybe 3%-5% of the Israeli population. They are very deeply religious and spiritual people. They believe that the Jewish temple needs to be rebuilt on the site of the dome of the rock before the messiah appears and the rapture occurs. It has to happen for them to live in heaven. Many conservative Christians in the U.S. also believe and support the Hasidim because of this shared belief that the Jewish temple must be rebuilt on the same site for the rapture and Jesus Christ's return.

They are committed to their beliefs in a way that few among us can comprehend. If you truly believe that an action such as blowing up the Muslim mosque on the temple mount will hasten the rapture, why would you not do it? They are committed to their beliefs in a way that few among us can comprehend. So why haven't they already done that?

Most rabbinical scholars have said that act would result in the death of millions of Jews and that can;t be allowed to happen.

Here's the danger, a break off sect that thinks the others are not conservative enough decides that deaths here in the physical is nothing compared to everlasting life in heaven.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I know in American politics there is always discussions about equivalency. But, with extermism there can be equivalency even though the numbers on one side is greater than the other side. It only takes a few to throw off the path of many.

I know most of you don't know shit about the ultra orthodox Jews. I lived with them in Jerusalem for a week as part of a program to educate Americans on what it is they believe and how they live their lives. So let me share some insight.....

Yes, there numbers are small, maybe 3%-5% of the Israeli population. They are very deeply religious and spiritual people. They believe that the Jewish temple needs to be rebuilt on the site of the dome of the rock before the messiah appears and the rapture occurs. It has to happen for them to live in heaven. Many conservative Christians in the U.S. also believe and support the Hasidim because of this shared belief that the Jewish temple must be rebuilt on the same site for the rapture and Jesus Christ's return.

They are committed to their beliefs in a way that few among us can comprehend. If you truly believe that an action such as blowing up the Muslim mosque on the temple mount will hasten the rapture, why would you not do it? They are committed to their beliefs in a way that few among us can comprehend. So why haven't they already done that?

Most rabbinical scholars have said that act would result in the death of millions of Jews and that can;t be allowed to happen.

Here's the danger, a break off sect that thinks the others are not conservative enough decides that deaths here in the physical is nothing compared to everlasting life in heaven.

Despite all that you say here about the fanaticism of the Jewish fringe, the fact remains that they haven't taken the action after action after action to prevent peace that the palestinian much-more-mainstream extremists have. There's no equivalence between the two in that, most-important respect. Thanks for the insights though.

[Comrade Crapski]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

As would surprise nobody who's refused to turn a blind eye to the plight of Palestinians, a UN council has examined what can only be charitably called modern day Palestine, and finds it in drastic, desperate denial of basic human rights.

The criticism stems largely from the settlement expansion, which remains a tremendous blight on the country.

It also takes note of settler terrorism, and how even basic infrastructure in Palestine, most notably schools, are poorly protected and are essentially in tatters.

If this isn't apartheid, people, it's right on the doorsteps.

The report: http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBod...ettlements.pdf

From the conclusions section:





Brutal.