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Old 02-03-2012, 09:27 PM  
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:27 PM   #91
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Can you build up a nest egg by saving, even with an income tax?
Sure. But you need to have like a job.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:28 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
When you said:



you were wrong.
So we can't save up a nest egg, untouched by taxes (the Roth IRA) and then spend befitting our lifestyle?
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:29 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
So we can't save up a nest egg, untouched by taxes (the Roth IRA) and then spend befitting our lifestyle?
That's right, we can't. And you continue to misunderstand the Roth IRA, although it's not a huge deal.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:30 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Sure. But you need to have like a job.
How can you build up a nest egg with an income tax and not have it touched by taxes?
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:31 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
That's right, we can't. And you continue to misunderstand the Roth IRA, although it's not a huge deal.
What am I misunderstanding about the Roth IRA? It is untaxed upon distribution is it not?
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:36 PM   #96
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What am I misunderstanding about the Roth IRA? It is untaxed upon distribution is it not?
No, that's the traditional IRA. A Roth IRA is taxed up front and distribution is tax free. If you assume a constant rate of inflation and a constant tax rate, they amount to the same thing mathematically, but the traditional IRA is a closer approximation for a consumption tax than the Roth. Unfortunately, IRAs, whether Roth or traditional, are limited in the size of the contributions and the circumstances under which withdrawals can be made. If you had an income tax that included unlimited traditional IRA contributions with no penalty for early withdrawal, you'd have the equivalent of a consumption tax.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:38 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
. . . . A Roth IRA is taxed up front and distribution is tax free.
Where did I indicate otherwise? Your Roth IRA is untaxed when it's distributed to you. I've said that throughout this thread. Are you watching the Super Bowl with Kotter?
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:39 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
Where did I indicate otherwise?
When you said "it is taxed on distribution is it not", among other places.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:41 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
When you said "it is taxed on distribution is it not", among other places.
Please read more carefully.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:55 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
I think so, but you can explain it to me in your own words if you want.
OK. It's an idea that I stumbled across a few months ago while checking out various POTUS candidates. Right now we have an income tax system that is inherently unfair. So we have "loopholes" in the tax code as a fix. This gives politicians a way to control what citizens do with the money that they earn, and the system can be changed for political gain or to exert very real pressure on various sections of our society. It's also used by politicians to pander to different economic strata, promoting "class warfare" so we stay too divided as a country to create any kind of mandate. The system is broken. A consumption tax kicks in when goods are exchanged or services are rendered. No goofy tax code with the wealthy paying a ridiculously high percentage of their income as the base amount. So no need for them to play some kind of game to avoid giving up half of what they make. No penalty for people who want to save money, so you end up with people who are more likely to do so. People with a chunk of money in the bank also tend to have more confidence in making purchases. The poor pay less taxes because they just don't have the money to consume as much. If you want to help them out even more, remove the consumption tax for persons under a certain yearly income. On the government side, you get politicians honestly trying to create legislation that promotes a strong economy. They have to. That's how they get paid. Not paying lip service to the business sector because they can always just screw with the tax code. Not painting the wealthy as evil fat cats because it's pretty easy to see when they are "paying their share."
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:57 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
How can you build up a nest egg with an income tax and not have it touched by taxes?
It all gets touched by taxes. You save anyway. Pay tax before...Roth, pay tax after, 401. Taxes have nothing to do with saving. Pay yourself first.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:04 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
OK. It's an idea that I stumbled across a few months ago while checking out various POTUS candidates. Right now we have an income tax system that is inherently unfair. So we have "loopholes" in the tax code as a fix. This gives politicians a way to control what citizens do with the money that they earn, and the system can be changed for political gain or to exert very real pressure on various sections of our society. It's also used by politicians to pander to different economic strata, promoting "class warfare" so we stay too divided as a country to create any kind of mandate. The system is broken. A consumption tax kicks in when goods are exchanged or services are rendered. No goofy tax code with the wealthy paying a ridiculously high percentage of their income as the base amount. So no need for them to play some kind of game to avoid giving up half of what they make. No penalty for people who want to save money, so you end up with people who are more likely to do so. People with a chunk of money in the bank also tend to have more confidence in making purchases. The poor pay less taxes because they just don't have the money to consume as much. If you want to help them out even more, remove the consumption tax for persons under a certain yearly income. On the government side, you get politicians honestly trying to create legislation that promotes a strong economy. They have to. That's how they get paid. Not paying lip service to the business sector because they can always just screw with the tax code. Not painting the wealthy as evil fat cats because it's pretty easy to see when they are "paying their share."
Thanks for the post. I don't believe that the poor would pay less taxes, however. I actually think they would pay a lot more as a percentage of their income than they do now. Poor people generally spend all the money they get on consumer goods. Even middle class people often live paycheck to paycheck and put just a small amount towards savings, and rely on their employer matching their retirement funds and rely on that.

The people who would benefit from a consumption tax are entirely the rich. They already benefit from the "progressive" (now, it's almost regressive) income tax model right now, and it's created huge wealth inequality.

I think the better solution is to close loopholes and special interests for most of the rich and middle class, but rates at their moment are good.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:11 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
Thanks for the post. I don't believe that the poor would pay less taxes, however. I actually think they would pay a lot more as a percentage of their income than they do now. Poor people generally spend all the money they get on consumer goods. Even middle class people often live paycheck to paycheck and put just a small amount towards savings, and rely on their employer matching their retirement funds and rely on that.

The people who would benefit from a consumption tax are entirely the rich. They already benefit from the "progressive" (now, it's almost regressive) income tax model right now, and it's created huge wealth inequality.

I think the better solution is to close loopholes and special interests for most of the rich and middle class, but rates at their moment are good.
Gonna have to get back to you. Beyonce is on. Good Lord she is hot.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:14 PM   #104
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Gonna have to get back to you. Beyonce is on. Good Lord she is hot.
I'm liking it.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:23 PM   #105
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I'm liking it.

Mmmm. The things I would do to that woman.
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