***OFFICIAL*** 2013 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Cards Minor league system ranked #1 in baseball by Baseball America.

As the Cardinals reorganized the direction — and leadership — of their amateur scouting and minor-league system several years ago, executives pointed at times to rankings from media outlets such as Baseball America, including one that labeled them last in talent as recently as 2005.
“It was a wake-up call to get better,” Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak said.


If rankings continued to be an indication, getting better was only the beginning.


When Baseball America’s 2013 Prospect Handbook reaches shelves early next month, the Cardinals will be unveiled as the annual publication’s No. 1 minor-league system in a ranking of all 30 clubs’ minor-league talent through mid-December, editors at the magazine confirmed.

.
If so, it will be the first time since Baseball America began ranking organizations in 1984 that the Cardinals will have earned the No. 1 spot. It is a significant turnaround for a club that was ranked 30th in minor-league talent in 2002 and 2005.

“People don’t remember how they had some tough drafts and a non-existent international program,” said Jim Callis, an executive at Baseball America. “It was a bad trend. I don’t think people realized how bad it was because of the success at the major-league level. That kind of masked it. It hid how bad the underpinnings were.”


Baseball America’s annual organization rankings are based on the conversations and individual rankings from four of the magazine’s editors. All four had the Cardinals ranked No. 1 this year, Callis said.


The rise comes eight seasons after the Cardinals ranked 30th and represents a steady climb up from a decade spent in the lower third of baseball.


From 2000 through 2007, the Cardinals highest rank was 21.

And yet in the eight seasons since being No. 30 the Cardinals have made strides at the minor-league level while winning two World Series and appearing in four NL championship series.

From 2005 to 2011, no team in the majors had as many drafted players contribute at the major-league level as the Cardinals.

They have not had a pick higher than 13th overall since 1999.


The Cardinals have been successful drafting and grooming complementary players and assets later traded such as former first-rounders Brett Wallace and Colby Rasmus. On the horizon this year are players viewed by several scouting publications as top-shelf talents. Callis has outfielder Oscar Taveras ranked as the second-best position player in all of the minors and righthander Shelby Miller as the second-best pitching prospect in all of the minors. Pitchers Carlos Martinez and Trevor Rosenthal and second baseman Kolten Wong also rate high compared to prospects in other systems.

“I look for elite talent,” Callis explained. “I think you do win with stars. I don’t think you can only win with being solid everywhere but not having a superstar. … I look for balance in the system. I look for how advanced the talent is through the system. (With the Cardinals) you’re looking at an extremely talented farm system with players like Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal who are close to being big-league ready or already are.”
Callis pointed to the Cardinals 2012 draft as an example of the organization’s depth. The Cards had five picks in the first 59. Yet, Callis noted, only one of the picks was able to crack the top seven prospects (see chart).


“One of the things in this time period is that we have invest heavily in the draft, taking advantage of extra picks at the time, and improving what we do in the international market,” Mozeliak said. “It really is a great credit to our scouting, our international staff, and the player development group that turns what scouts give them into prospects.”


The full article here:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...836de8b3a.html

[Mi_chief_fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm not sure Oscar has the power that Vladdy has...afterall, I'm pretty sure Vladdy was 'enhanced' during his peak power years. And really, I don't see Oscar being the base-stealer that Vlad was during his peak either.

Maybe Chase Utley? But I think Tavares is a more aggressive hitter than Utley; probably won't have the OBP that he had. Maybe Bernie Williams? But again, Bernie drew a ton of walks.

Really, if you combine Bernie's batted ball profile with Torii Hunter's aggressive approach, I think you have Oscar. But a lot of those guys I'm a little reluctant to compare him to started drawing more walks as they got a little older, so maybe that's in store for Tavares as well. If he ever really refines his eye, he could easily be a Bernie Williams or Bobby Abreu type hitter.

Let's just compare him to All-Stars right now. We'll worry about comparing him to HOFers when he gets his 1000th hit or so...

I try not to get my hopes too high, the last Cards prospect with this much hype was probably J.D. Drew, and he turned out to be good, not great.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan

I try not to get my hopes too high, the last Cards prospect with this much hype was probably J.D. Drew, and he turned out to be good, not great.

I don't remember Drew being the 3rd best prospect or higher in baseball right before he hit the majors. Wen have had our share of flops but every team does.

[Mi_chief_fan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I don't remember Drew being the 3rd best prospect or higher in baseball right before he hit the majors. Wen have had our share of flops but every team does.

Not sure where he ranked, but he was hyped for nothing else because he spurned the Phillies; as we all know, dissing an east coast team like the Phillies is a mortal sin, punishable by having batteries thrown at you at Veterans Stadium.

[DJ's left nut]

Rumors are that the Cards have scheduled a 1:30 press conference to announce that Carpenter is retiring.

I guess you defer to the guy that just decided he didn't have the drive to answer the bell when pitchers and catchers report, but shit man - you couldn't have told us this several months ago? That might've been handy information to have, no?

Well that frees up some payroll, I guess. Too bad there's nobody left to sign.

Time to make a FA push for Michael Bourn and get to work on trading Holliday+ for Andrus.

[Marcellus the True]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Rumors are that the Cards have scheduled a 1:30 press conference to announce that Carpenter is retiring.

I guess you defer to the guy that just decided he didn't have the drive to answer the bell when pitchers and catchers report, but shit man - you couldn't have told us this several months ago? That might've been handy information to have, no?

Well that frees up some payroll, I guess. Too bad there's nobody left to sign.

Time to make a FA push for Michael Bourn and get to work on trading Holliday+ for Andrus.

They aren't trading Holliday.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

They aren't trading Holliday.

I know.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't. Holliday for Andrus would be a win/win for both squads. Though if the Rangers weren't willing to part with Andrus for Upton, they aren't going to give him up for Holliday either.

[Marcellus the True]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I know.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't. Holliday for Andrus would be a win/win for both squads. Though if the Rangers weren't willing to part with Andrus for Upton, they aren't going to give him up for Holliday either.

You would think with a strong a farm system as the Cards have, finding a shortstop wouldn't be so tough. We don't need an All Star just a real solid guy.


Same for 2nd base. How far out is Wong another year or more?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

You would think with a strong a farm system as the Cards have, finding a shortstop wouldn't be so tough. We don't need an All Star just a real solid guy.


Same for 2nd base. How far out is Wong another year or more?

No farm system has good ML-caliber talent at every position.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

You would think with a strong a farm system as the Cards have, finding a shortstop wouldn't be so tough. We don't need an All Star just a real solid guy.


Same for 2nd base. How far out is Wong another year or more?

I'm really reluctant to get excited about Wong right now.

His hitting profile is starting to look a hell of a lot like Daniel Descalso's and Danny D has had the bat knocked out of his hands at this level. He's youngish, but he's not showing any real high-end tools down on the farm.

I'm thinking Wong is most likely to be little more than a placeholder.

EDIT: Presser had started so I just hit submit. I don't mean a placeholder, really. I mean just a decent player. He's not going to be much of a differencemaker out there, just a decent ballplayer.

[ChiefsandO'sfan]

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler

Cardinals announce Chris Carpenter "can't continue to throw" at this point. Not yet a retirement announcement, but it doesn't sound good

[DJ's left nut]

"After several attempts at throwing bullpens, Carpenter informed [Moe] that he's still experiencing the same stingers, pain, etc... that he experienced last spring and that he can no longer continue to throw"

...he's to seek medical advice, etc...

"It's very unlikely that he's going to pitch for us in the 2013 season"

[duncan_idaho]

SS is also the hardest to position to find, IMO.

There isn't a ton of SS talent in the US, as there is a lot of competition for those athletes who can play it at a high level (Soccer, football, basketball, etc.) And in the Latin America countries, you're scouting guys at 15/16 and trying to project arm strength, body size, quickness as adults.

Tough row to hoe.

So is Miller probably a lock for the rotation now that Carp is gone (assuming Lohse isn't brought back now)?

[DJ's left nut]

"We're comfortable with what we have"

Of course you are, Moe. You always are. WTF do you ever think needs to be upgraded on this roster and do you ever do anything but dumpster dive to improve it?

We're going to be ****ed once we run out of Luhnow draftees.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Wainwright
Westbrook
Garcia
Lynn
Rosenthal
Miller
Kelly

When Garcia inevitably goes down, you still have six potential starters for five spots.

[Marco Polo]

We have two top-50 overall prospects in Shelby and Rosenthal. Time to give them a chance.