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Old 02-11-2013, 05:57 AM  
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Pope Benedict XVI to Retire

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/be...aratio_en.html

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Dear Brothers,

I have convoked you to this Consistory, not only for the three canonizations, but also to communicate to you a decision of great importance for the life of the Church. After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry. I am well aware that this ministry, due to its essential spiritual nature, must be carried out not only with words and deeds, but no less with prayer and suffering. However, in today’s world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the barque of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome, Successor of Saint Peter, entrusted to me by the Cardinals on 19 April 2005, in such a way, that as from 28 February 2013, at 20:00 hours, the See of Rome, the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is.

Dear Brothers, I thank you most sincerely for all the love and work with which you have supported me in my ministry and I ask pardon for all my defects. And now, let us entrust the Holy Church to the care of Our Supreme Pastor, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and implore his holy Mother Mary, so that she may assist the Cardinal Fathers with her maternal solicitude, in electing a new Supreme Pontiff. With regard to myself, I wish to also devotedly serve the Holy Church of God in the future through a life dedicated to prayer.

From the Vatican, 10 February 2013
BENEDICTUS PP XVI
On one hand, I am floored by the news. On the other hand, I am glad he is able to rest and enjoy retirement. I think this will set a healthy precedent.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:15 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by GoWalrus View Post
Can we at least get you to admit he was probably the worst Pope in the last 200 years?


I'd agree that the pedophilia cover up scandal is by far the worst crime committed by any Pope over the last 200 years. I don't know whether that primarily lands on PJPII's doorstep or Ratzinger's, but I'll agree that whenever that information bubbled to the top of the Papacy, and whoever was primarily responsible for hiding the entire situation -- that guy is the worst Pope of the last 200 years. Possibly even 400-500 or so. Once you knock out all the ridiculous ones from about 800-1500, the "worst pope ever" list gets much shorter.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:18 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by GoWalrus View Post
The real problem of course is that none of you Catholics think Pope Palpatine did anything wrong.

Brainwashing at it's finest.

I think Ratzinger was centrally involved in the pedophile cover up during his years as Cardinal and continuing on into his role as Pope. As such, he was/is actively complicit and, to be blunt, a ****ing scumbag.

What the Church did in response to the situation is completely inexcusable.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:20 AM   #63
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It's not exactly accurate to lay the cover-up on either JPII or B16. These scandals did leak to JPII, and the criticism of him is that he didn't do enough to amend internal Church regulations to actively seek out these incidents. When they first broke light, JPII was frail and falling into worse health, and was pretty much taking victory/goodwill tours.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:26 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
I think Ratzinger was centrally involved in the pedophile cover up during his years as Cardinal and continuing on into his role as Pope. As such, he was/is actively complicit and, to be blunt, a ****ing scumbag.

What the Church did in response to the situation is completely inexcusable.
Benedict was one of the few high Vatican officials who pressured internal reforms throughout the 1980s, and according to most close observers of the Vatican's internal mechanisms, has done a lot to make sure it doesn't happen again.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:27 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
It's not exactly accurate to lay the cover-up on either JPII or B16. These scandals did leak to JPII, and the criticism of him is that he didn't do enough to amend internal Church regulations to actively seek out these incidents. When they first broke light, JPII was frail and falling into worse health, and was pretty much taking victory/goodwill tours.

Whoa, STOP.

First, before being elevated Ratzinger was Grand High Inquisitor, errr....sorry, Prefect for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith (f/k/a Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition) and JPII's right-hand man and, obviously, anointed successor.

Second, there is NO more hierarchial organization in human history than the Roman Catholic Church, really.

Third, this clearly isn't just a Boston issue, or a USA issue. It's now, obviously and undeniably, a worldwide problem in the Roman Catholic Church.

If JPII and Ratzinger are mostly/entirely off the hook, then who is responsible. Just a whole bunch of Cardinals around the world? Yeah, that's bullshit.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:30 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
Benedict was one of the few high Vatican officials who pressured internal reforms throughout the 1980s, and according to most close observers of the Vatican's internal mechanisms, has done a lot to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Look, SOMEONE was asleep at the switch for a very, very, very long time. Maybe it's not Ratzinger. But the problem is so widespread it's above the heads of even the diocese Cardinals. Wherever you go you see the same system -- just shuffle the Priest off to a new parish. Not even send him to a monastary in the hinterlands -- nope -- just give him a new venue to work with, in close proximity to kids.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:30 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
If JPII and Ratzinger are mostly/entirely off the hook, then who is responsible. Just a whole bunch of Cardinals around the world? Yeah, that's bullshit.
The whole, entire institution is responsible for creating the atmosphere and rigidity that allowed it to happen and persist. The internal regulations were obstacles. They had in mind the preservation of the Church, not the best interests of the child. That's what's to blame. Not JPII and B16. JPII deserves criticism for his lack of response to the abuse, but he cannot be the scapegoat for the problem.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:34 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Look, SOMEONE was asleep at the switch for a very, very, very long time. Maybe it's not Ratzinger. But the problem is so widespread it's above the heads of even the diocese Cardinals. Wherever you go you see the same system -- just shuffle the Priest off to a new parish. Not even send him to a monastary in the hinterlands -- nope -- just give him a new venue to work with, in close proximity to kids.
The Church's direction just does not operate like a switch. We are talking about the most conservative, traditional organization in the world, whose sole purpose is to preserve and spread the memory and teachings of a man 2000 years ago. Their traditions evolved slowly, as did their internal regulations. In many cases, that is positive (at least from the Church's perspective). In this particular case, it was tragic.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:36 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
The whole, entire institution is responsible for creating the atmosphere and rigidity that allowed it to happen and persist. The internal regulations were obstacles. They had in mind the preservation of the Church, not the best interests of the child. That's what's to blame. Not JPII and B16. JPII deserves criticism for his lack of response to the abuse, but he cannot be the scapegoat for the problem.

That's bullshit.

So Joe Paterno -- off the hook?

All those Wall Street CEOs that you rail against around here -- off the hook?

Hey, it's the "institution" and there are "internal regulations" that "create an atmosphere" and are designed to "preserve the" institution.

Nobody ever gets blamed. Blame the nameless, faceless institution and the "internal regulations".

Yeah....no. That's bullshit. Paterno got taken out with the bathwater while JPII is up for sainthood and Benedict/Ratzinger/Palpatine is probably going to receive a million praises for his wonderful leadership. Nobody is responsible. Right...
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:37 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
The whole, entire institution is responsible for creating the atmosphere and rigidity that allowed it to happen and persist. The internal regulations were obstacles. They had in mind the preservation of the Church, not the best interests of the child. That's what's to blame.
Why isn't every single priest that raped or molested children in jail? Covered up their crimes?
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:37 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
The Church's direction just does not operate like a switch. We are talking about the most conservative, traditional organization in the world, whose sole purpose is to preserve and spread the memory and teachings of a man 2000 years ago. Their traditions evolved slowly, as did their internal regulations. In many cases, that is positive (at least from the Church's perspective). In this particular case, it was tragic.

You're far more forgiving of an institution that PROTECTED, AIDED AND ABETTED KID-****ING than I will ever be.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:41 AM   #72
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So you were privy to what Ratzinger was and wasn't told back in 2001? I wasn't aware cardinals ran their official correspondence through Iowa grade schools.
The important thing here is that the accusers weren't privy to it and haven't produced any evidence to show that their theory of events has any basis.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:45 AM   #73
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:45 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
That's bullshit.

So Joe Paterno -- off the hook?

All those Wall Street CEOs that you rail against around here -- off the hook?

Hey, it's the "institution" and there are "internal regulations" that "create an atmosphere" and are designed to "preserve the" institution.

Nobody ever gets blamed. Blame the nameless, faceless institution and the "internal regulations".

Yeah....no. That's bullshit. Paterno got taken out with the bathwater while JPII is up for sainthood and Benedict/Ratzinger/Palpatine is probably going to receive a million praises for his wonderful leadership. Nobody is responsible. Right...
I'm not saying no-one is responsible. Clearly, the priests who engaged in the sexual abuse of children are clearly responsible. The bishops who shuffled off them off are clearly responsible. The men who put together a rigid rule that shielded accusations from civil authorities are responsible.

You seem to have some insatiable need or desire to prosecute someone and want it to be JPII or B16. Maybe it would make you feel better about the end result, but it wouldn't be right or just.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:46 AM   #75
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As an outside observer, what does this mean for the Catholic Church? The general perception of the church isn't exactly help up by sturdy oaken legs these days, and now a Pope steps down voluntarily for the first time in over 500 years.

What does this mean for the church going forward?
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