Would you turn in your firearms??

[petegz28]

Flat out, if your state or the Fed Gov passed a law similar to what NY did or what CA is trying to do, would you turn in any firearms or magazines that were suddenly deemed to be "illegal"?


Poll to follow

[A Salt Weapon]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Bullshit. Let's take a look at your crawl space.

Sure, why don't you climb in there first.
Posted via Mobile Device

[listopencil]

http://www.reddit.com/r/progun/comme..._is_trying_to/

Mayor Lee http://youtu.be/c6PZ-rrkXs
Police Chief Magnus & Police Chief James http://youtu.be/P1fhw_OcdPM
Mayor Villaraigosa http://youtu.be/hPR3604i7bc
Senator Hancock http://youtu.be/CQSbDGhj2i8
General Intro/Outro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPjkLTtJ8qE

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...atory-license/

A press conference just wrapped up in California where the Democrats (who have an overwhelming majority in the state) unveiled their latest gun control agenda. And since the Democratic majority is so strong, these aren’t proposals — it’s a preview of things to come. According to one person who was watching the press conference, the following new restrictions on personal liberties will be coming to the most “liberal” state in the union . . .

Thanks to Reddit:

• Possession of hollow point bullets and similar assault bullets a felony.
• Must register and report ammo purchases. Only purchase max 500 rounds.
• 10 round magazine limit
• ALL magazines must be fixed to the gun (can not be removed without the use of a tool)
• 100% prohibition of all magazines greater than 10 rounds. All previous grandfathered magazines become illegal. Felony if you keep one.
• Changing definition of shotgun revolving cylinder — Basically only single shot shotguns will remain legal.
• Bullet Buttons will become illegal — All AR and AK style rifles that are currently equipped with them will be designated Assault Weapons. Felony to possess.
• All gun owners now must be licensed like drivers.
• All gun owners must carry gun liability insurance

This is the first time we’ve seen a state try to enact this kind of ammunition posession legislation. Maryland is trying to set up a minimum age for ANYONE to purchase ammo, but California is going leaps and bounds beyond that. From Yahoo! news:

Like New York, California also would require background checks for buying ammunition and would add to the list of prohibited weapons.
Those buying ammunition would have to pay a fee and undergo an initial background check by the state Department of Justice, similar to what is required now before buyers can purchase a weapon. Subsequent background checks would be done instantly by an ammunition seller checking the Justice Department’s records.

[ClevelandBronco]

Why on earth would I turn in my firearms? They've done nothing wrong.

[frazod]

Originally Posted by listopencil

http://www.reddit.com/r/progun/comme..._is_trying_to/

Mayor Lee http://youtu.be/c6PZ-rrkXs
Police Chief Magnus & Police Chief James http://youtu.be/P1fhw_OcdPM
Mayor Villaraigosa http://youtu.be/hPR3604i7bc
Senator Hancock http://youtu.be/CQSbDGhj2i8
General Intro/Outro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPjkLTtJ8qE

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...atory-license/

A press conference just wrapped up in California where the Democrats (who have an overwhelming majority in the state) unveiled their latest gun control agenda. And since the Democratic majority is so strong, these aren’t proposals — it’s a preview of things to come. According to one person who was watching the press conference, the following new restrictions on personal liberties will be coming to the most “liberal” state in the union . . .

Thanks to Reddit:

• Possession of hollow point bullets and similar assault bullets a felony.
• Must register and report ammo purchases. Only purchase max 500 rounds.
• 10 round magazine limit
• ALL magazines must be fixed to the gun (can not be removed without the use of a tool)
• 100% prohibition of all magazines greater than 10 rounds. All previous grandfathered magazines become illegal. Felony if you keep one.
• Changing definition of shotgun revolving cylinder — Basically only single shot shotguns will remain legal.
• Bullet Buttons will become illegal — All AR and AK style rifles that are currently equipped with them will be designated Assault Weapons. Felony to possess.
• All gun owners now must be licensed like drivers.
• All gun owners must carry gun liability insurance

This is the first time we’ve seen a state try to enact this kind of ammunition posession legislation. Maryland is trying to set up a minimum age for ANYONE to purchase ammo, but California is going leaps and bounds beyond that. From Yahoo! news:

Like New York, California also would require background checks for buying ammunition and would add to the list of prohibited weapons.
Those buying ammunition would have to pay a fee and undergo an initial background check by the state Department of Justice, similar to what is required now before buyers can purchase a weapon. Subsequent background checks would be done instantly by an ammunition seller checking the Justice Department’s records.

Wow. When you make Illinois politicians look sane by comparison......

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by frazod

Wow. When you make Illinois politicians look sane by comparison......

Yeah, no shit. Texas is starting to look really good right now. I used to live near San Antonio back in the 70's. They'll probably replace any gun that Cali takes away from me if I'm willing to move. Have they started handing out firearms at the border to citizens down there yet? I assumed it was going to happen eventually.

[Fairplay]

Embarrassing and pathetic

[CrazyPhuD]

Originally Posted by listopencil

[*]Possession of hollow point bullets and similar assault bullets a felony.

WTH....what do they have against ass bullets? That's the whole reason I have mexican + thai food combo nights!

[Branden Albert's Huge Balls]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Yeah, I'm pretty sure nobody in this thread, or this forum, is going to open fire on the police to defend their right to a 10 round magazine.

But saying things sure is fun.

Guess what, stupid?

If the government comes for our guns, the police won't be the ones enforcing it.

No ****ing way.

The police are american citizens just like you and me. They'll be standing with us.

We'll probably have to open fire on Blackwater or something.

[Branden Albert's Huge Balls]

Originally Posted by listopencil

Oh, by the way, our Sheriff has refused to confiscate weapons made illegal by any new laws. Do the Feds have the manpower, money and political will to go door to door against the wishes of local and county law enforcement?

Why do you think the government has been buying up thousands of rounds of ammunition?

[CoMoChief]

NATO troops will be the ones to confiscate the guns.

All shit will break loose when that happens. It will be COD warzones in the cities from riots and all kinds of shit.

[Branden Albert's Huge Balls]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

NATO troops will be the ones to confiscate the guns.

All shit will break loose when that happens. It will be COD warzones in the cities from riots and all kinds of shit.

[Branden Albert's Huge Balls]

Scared yet?

FEMA was created in a series of Executive Orders. A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry. Congress is by-passed. Executive Order Number 12148 created the Federal Emergency Management Agency that is to interface with the Department of Defense for civil defense planning and funding. An "emergency czar" was appointed. FEMA has only spent about 6 percent of its budget on national emergencies, the bulk of their funding has been used for the construction of secret underground facilities to assure continuity of government in case of a major emergency, foreign or domestic. Executive Order Number 12656 appointed the National Security Council as the principal body that should consider emergency powers. This allows the government to increase domestic intelligence and surveillance of U.S. citizens and would restrict the freedom of movement within the United States and grant the government the right to isolate large groups of civilians. The National Guard could be federalized to seal all borders and take control of U.S. air space and all ports of entry.

Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.

[verbaljitsu]

2 issues.

First, outright firearm confiscation has happened multiple times in this country. A prime example happened in California and the SKS rifle. The California DOJ oversaw a registration of SKS rifles, and specifically promised that if the rifles were registered, they would remain legal and would not be confiscated. A short time later, administrations changed and the DOJ used the registration roles to confiscate all of the registered SKS's.

So you can imagine why people don't believe the claim "we aren't trying to take your guns."

Additionally, making somebody's firearms illegal may not technically be the same as kicking down their door and confiscating the weapon, but it is functionally exactly the same. All recent proposed assault weapons bans would ban the AR 15 rifle, which is the most popular rifle in the country over the last several years. If it is illegal, and I have to make the choice to be a criminal, or turn it in (either now or upon my death), it is exactly the same as you coming and taking it. Perhaps what control advocates mean to say is, "We aren't going to take all your guns, yet," but that is a little to honest sounding.

Second, I generally get the impression from control advocates on this forum and anecdotally across the media and among my friends that they have a strange split belief that I can't explain very well. But it basically boils down to a few assumptions that are false and largely contradictory:

1. Weapons in the hands of bad guys are capable of making things so easy that any random crazy asshole can destroy whole cities. The bad guys won't ever miss because of their pistol grips or whatever.

2. The same firearms in the hands of average civilians is unreliable, inaccurate, and the mere fact that it is within a household means that they are likely to accidentally kill themselves and their family, but they certainly aren't capable of using it safely or well.

3. LEO/Military are expertly trained experts that expertly use their firearms in expert ways. And experts. So, they will come and expertly save the day.

So when we get a situation where a guy like Christopher Dorner, who was a naval reserve officer and LAPD officer, we act like he is some super trained special badass.

But the reality is that I have probably fired more rounds this year than Dorner has in his entire life.

LEO firearms training is a joke. I am not familiar with exactly what LAPD requires, but most departments around this country require roughly 50 rounds per year/25 every six months. 100-150 rounds per year when you count a little bit of practice the day before...which I would call a warm up. Most officers do not shoot on their own. Only the people that were "gun guys/gals" before they started working for police departments really train. Without fail, every shooting competition I have ever been to, the police (who keep in mind get to cheat a little bit by using their duty gear), routinely bring up the rear.*

When I go to a public shooting range and I see police officers there, I always curse under my breath because I know I am going to have to seriously watch my personal safety because the state of their gun handling is so bad. The 5 most dangerous things I have ever seen done at a shooting range were all done by police officers.

The average cop shows up to the range twice a year before his two annual qualifications and shoots one box of 50 rounds to "practice," and takes the 25 round test the next day. The POST test (which is the most common qualification test around the country) looks like this:POST. That is seriously LOL kind of stuff. There are a lot of departments that require less. And frankly, a firearm is probably the tool that a police officer uses the least. They should spend more time training on the radio than on their pistols, but the lack of LEO firearms skill is pretty shocking.

The military isn't much better. To qualify on the M-16 rifle you have to hit 23 out of 40 humanoid sized targets. Doesn't matter where you hit them. Most of the course is fired from a supported position. The distance ranges from 50-300 meters.

My brother-in-law completed basic training in January. He estimated that the entire time he was there, he fired 400 rounds. 400 rounds would be a pretty good weekend for a firearms enthusiast.

*guys like Bob Vogel are obvious exceptions. But he is a sponsored competitive shooter.

[InChiefsHell]

My son graduated Marine Boot last November. When they had their rifle time at Pendleton, they spent a week dry firing from various positions long before they ever put a round through the rifle. They fired a lot more than 400 rounds. And that was just in boot camp. He just finished Marine Combat Training in January and fired a ton of rounds through other weapons as well.

Say what you want, but a Marine is a rifleman first and they shoot alot. I don't know how often he must qualify with the weapon now that boot and MCT is over.

[InChiefsHell]

And to the original OP...what guns? I have no idea what you are talking about!