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Old 02-12-2013, 07:16 PM  
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Obama wants to raise minimum wage to NINE DOLLARS AN HOUR



@RyanLizza: Obama will call for raising the federal minimum wage to $9.00/hour.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:34 AM   #346
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They need job training and initiative.
Thats my point.

I believe in a hand up not a hand out. It's in our best taxpayer interests to get them off the government dole and onto the taxpaying rolls.

I'm in favor of a time limit/amount limit on how much an individual can receive from the taxpayer. They have to have a plan and follow that plan. If not, good luck on your own.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:39 AM   #347
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Thats my point.

I believe in a hand up not a hand out. It's in our best taxpayer interests to get them off the government dole and onto the taxpaying rolls.

I'm in favor of a time limit/amount limit on how much an individual can receive from the taxpayer. They have to have a plan and follow that plan. If not, good luck on your own.
then you and I are closer in thought than either of us thought
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:47 AM   #348
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then you and I are closer in thought than either of us thought
It's because you and other people on this board think I'm an OBAMABOT and forget I have several long held positions that are conservative in nature. Support the 2nd amendment, strong defense, support drone use to kill Al-Qadea in countries we are not at war with, to the right of most on here in support of Israel, want to kick lazy shits off the government tit, voted for Ronald Reagan twice etc. etc.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:04 AM   #349
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It doesn't matter what the Min wage is....the economy will adjust so that will still be the same lifestyle because the costs of everything else will go up too. It's just how it is and it's pretty basic economics.
This is the point many seem to be missing.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:03 AM   #350
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Source: thinkprogress.org. "Why Employers Won't fire People if We Raise the Minimum Wage to $9". Feb 14, 2013

"For instance, in 2009 researchers conducted a review of 64 minimum-wage studies published between 1972 and 2007 measuring the impact of minimum wages on teenage employment and when they graphed “every employment estimate contained in these studies (over 1,000 in total), weighting each estimate by its statistical precision, they found that the most precise estimates were heavily clustered at or near zero employment effects.” The following year, researchers published a study comparing restaurant employment differences across 1,381 U.S. counties with different levels of the minimum wage” in every quarter between 1990 and 2006. Their conclusion: “The large negative elasticities in the traditional specification are generated primarily by regional and local differences in employment trends that are unrelated to minimum wage policies.”"

John Schmitt finds the answer in a paper out this month for the Center for Economic and Policy Research. After reviewing the available data, he concludes that employers react to minimum wage increases by adjusting their practices in a wide range of ways, some of which can strengthen their businesses and the economy as a whole:
1. Improving efficiency. An increase in the minimum wage may lead employers to encourage employees to work harder, since they’re now being paid more. Such an adjustment may be preferable to “cutting employment (or hours) because employer actions that reduce employment can ‘hurt morale and engender retaliation.’” A review of 81 fast-food restaurants in Georgia and Alabama found that “90 percent of managers indicated that they planned to respond to the minimum-wage increase with increased performance standards such as ‘requiring a better attendance and on-time record, faster and more proficient performance of job duties, taking on additional tasks, and faster termination of poor performers.’”
2. Increasing demand. Raising the minimum wage may increase demand for goods and services and bolster consumer spending, offsetting the increase to employer costs. One study estimates “that an increase in the minimum-wage
from its current level of $7.25 per hour to $9.80 per hour by July 2014 would increase the earnings low-wage workers by about $40 billion over the period” and create some 100,000 jobs.
3. Lowering turnover. A higher minimum wage “makes it easier for employers to recruit and retain employees” and may even “compensate some or all of the increased wage costs, allowing employers to maintain employment levels.” One study found “striking evidence that separations, new hires, and turnover rates for teens and restaurant workers fall substantially following a minimum wage increase…”
4. Increasing prices. A comprehensive review of more than 30 academic papers on the price effects of the minimum wage found that “most studies reviewed above found that a 10% US minimum wage increase raises food prices by no more than 4% and overall prices by no more than 0.4%”; and “[t]he main policy recommendation deriving from such findings is that policy makers can use the minimum wage to increase the wages of the poor, without destroying too many jobs or causing too much inflation.”
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:24 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Source: thinkprogress.org.

4. Increasing prices. A comprehensive review of more than 30 academic papers on the price effects of the minimum wage found that “most studies reviewed above found that a 10% US minimum wage increase raises food prices by no more than 4% and overall prices by no more than 0.4%”; and “[t]he main policy recommendation deriving from such findings is that policy makers can use the minimum wage to increase the wages of the poor, without destroying too many jobs or causing too much inflation.”
While the electronic appliances (mostly TV, sound systems, cell phones) prices are dropping, the daily staples (food, gas, etc..) have gone up at least 25%. Restaurants scramble to deal with the increase cost by raising the price on the menu and reduce the portion of the main entries. New cars have gone up 10 to 15% from my local dealers. The increase in MW doesn't give the consumers additional purchase power.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:13 PM   #352
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I think Krugman largely settles the issue here.

This is a huge piece, in terms of evidential reasoning.

It's a good idea, and it's popular. Which means it is the perfect fodder to end up in Democratic sloganeering for the 2014 midterms.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/op....html?hp&_r=1&

Raise That Wage
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: February 17, 2013

President Obama laid out a number of good ideas in his State of the Union address. Unfortunately, almost all of them would require spending money — and given Republican control of the House of Representatives, it’s hard to imagine that happening.

One major proposal, however, wouldn’t involve budget outlays: the president’s call for a rise in the minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $9, with subsequent increases in line with inflation. The question we need to ask is: Would this be good policy? And the answer, perhaps surprisingly, is a clear yes.

Why “surprisingly”? Well, Economics 101 tells us to be very cautious about attempts to legislate market outcomes. Every textbook — mine included — lays out the unintended consequences that flow from policies like rent controls or agricultural price supports. And even most liberal economists would, I suspect, agree that setting a minimum wage of, say, $20 an hour would create a lot of problems.

But that’s not what’s on the table. And there are strong reasons to believe that the kind of minimum wage increase the president is proposing would have overwhelmingly positive effects.

First of all, the current level of the minimum wage is very low by any reasonable standard. For about four decades, increases in the minimum wage have consistently fallen behind inflation, so that in real terms the minimum wage is substantially lower than it was in the 1960s. Meanwhile, worker productivity has doubled. Isn’t it time for a raise?

Now, you might argue that even if the current minimum wage seems low, raising it would cost jobs. But there’s evidence on that question — lots and lots of evidence, because the minimum wage is one of the most studied issues in all of economics. U.S. experience, it turns out, offers many “natural experiments” here, in which one state raises its minimum wage while others do not. And while there are dissenters, as there always are, the great preponderance of the evidence from these natural experiments points to little if any negative effect of minimum wage increases on employment.

Why is this true? That’s a subject of continuing research, but one theme in all the explanations is that workers aren’t bushels of wheat or even Manhattan apartments; they’re human beings, and the human relationships involved in hiring and firing are inevitably more complex than markets for mere commodities. And one byproduct of this human complexity seems to be that modest increases in wages for the least-paid don’t necessarily reduce the number of jobs.

What this means, in turn, is that the main effect of a rise in minimum wages is a rise in the incomes of hard-working but low-paid Americans — which is, of course, what we’re trying to accomplish.

Finally, it’s important to understand how the minimum wage interacts with other policies aimed at helping lower-paid workers, in particular the earned-income tax credit, which helps low-income families who help themselves. The tax credit — which has traditionally had bipartisan support, although that may be ending — is also good policy. But it has a well-known defect: Some of its benefits end up flowing not to workers but to employers, in the form of lower wages. And guess what? An increase in the minimum wage helps correct this defect. It turns out that the tax credit and the minimum wage aren’t competing policies, they’re complementary policies that work best in tandem.

So Mr. Obama’s wage proposal is good economics. It’s also good politics: a wage increase is supported by an overwhelming majority of voters, including a strong majority of self-identified Republican women (but not men). Yet G.O.P. leaders in Congress are opposed to any rise. Why? They say that they’re concerned about the people who might lose their jobs, never mind the evidence that this won’t actually happen. But this isn’t credible.

For today’s Republican leaders clearly feel disdain for low-wage workers. Bear in mind that such workers, even if they work full time, by and large don’t pay income taxes (although they pay plenty in payroll and sales taxes), while they may receive benefits like Medicaid and food stamps. And you know what this makes them, in the eyes of the G.O.P.: “takers,” members of the contemptible 47 percent who, as Mitt Romney said to nods of approval, won’t take responsibility for their own lives.

Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, offered a perfect illustration of this disdain last Labor Day: He chose to commemorate a holiday dedicated to workers by sending out a message that said nothing at all about workers, but praised the efforts of business owners instead.

The good news is that not many Americans share that disdain; just about everyone except Republican men believes that the lowest-paid workers deserve a raise. And they’re right. We should raise the minimum wage, now.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:58 PM   #353
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Seems like a good opportunity for someone that can do sales. Why can't you find someone to take that? Some personable kid right out of college?
Well he has no college but I hired a young man (21) who I had a great interview with.Starting tomorrow we're doing 4 days of in the office training and then he's spending one day with me in the field and then he's giving it a go on his own.Fingers are crossed.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:41 PM   #354
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And you know what this makes them, in the eyes of the G.O.P.: “takers,” members of the contemptible 47 percent who, as Mitt Romney said to nods of approval, won’t take responsibility for their own lives.
Laughable. Now Romney and the GOP hate working Americans. I'm sure that was the thrust of his comment. I love how Libs take his comment out of context (it was about the appeal of his tax plan) but it's not ok to take Obama's comment about "You didn't build that" out of context. Same deal.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:10 PM   #355
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Laughable. Now Romney and the GOP hate working Americans. I'm sure that was the thrust of his comment.
It was certainly the thrust of Romney's.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:22 PM   #356
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It was certainly the thrust of Romney's.
Ok, then the thrust of Obama's speech was to attack entrepreneurs.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:23 PM   #357
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Is there a reason why we can't have the minimum raise stay at $7.25 for people under 18, but rise to $9 for people over 18? That way, companies struggling to pay their high school students won't suffer as much, but two min-wagers trying to hold down a family would catch a break.

I really don't know if this would be a good idea or not - I just thought of it - so any feedback would be fine.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:54 PM   #358
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That's a great idea if you want companies to hire high school kids over adults.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:50 PM   #359
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Correlation causation, exhibit A.
I'm not saying minimum-wage caused the boom, I'm pointing out that Republicans cries that it was going to destroy the economy were completely wrong. If you're going to trot out the worn-out correlation/causation line, at least try to understand the argument.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:24 AM   #360
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Laughable. Now Romney and the GOP hate working Americans. I'm sure that was the thrust of his comment. I love how Libs take his comment out of context (it was about the appeal of his tax plan) but it's not ok to take Obama's comment about "You didn't build that" out of context. Same deal.
From the CBPP:
"A new CBPP analysis of budget and Census data, however, shows that more than 90 percent of the benefit dollars that entitlement and other mandatory programs[1] spend go to assist people who are elderly, seriously disabled, or members of working households — not to able-bodied, working-age Americans who choose not to work. (See Figure 1.) This figure has changed little in the past few years."

Yes, Romney threw working Americans under the Bus with his 47 percent comment. What is funnier is he threw the Elderly, who make up the biggest chunk of his "47 percent" (they don't pay income tax), under the bus as well, and they were is biggest supports. Something something, voting against self interest.

Source: cbpp.org (Center on Budget and Policy Priorities) "Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households". Feb. 10 2012


"Moreover, if we look only at entitlement programs that are targeted to people with low incomes, the percentage of benefit dollars going to people who are elderly or disabled or members of working households remains high. Five of every six benefit dollars in these programs — 83 percent — go to such people.
If anything, these figures understate the percentage of the benefits that generally go to people who are elderly, disabled, or members of working households. As noted, these data are for fiscal year 2010, a year when the unemployment rate averaged 9.6 percent and an unusually large number of Americans were in economic distress. In fiscal year 2007, the share of entitlement benefits going to people who are elderly or disabled or members of working households was a bit higher.

In short, both the current reality and the trends of recent decades contrast sharply with the critics’ assumption that social programs increasingly are supporting people who can work but choose not to do so. In the 1980s and 1990s, the United States substantially reduced assistance to the jobless poor (through legislation such as the 1996 welfare law) while increasing assistance to low-income working families (such as through expansions of the Earned Income Tax Credit). The safety net became much more “work-based.” In addition, the U.S. population is aging, which raises the share of benefits going to seniors and people with disabilities."
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