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Old 10-27-2012, 09:53 PM  
Al Bundy Al Bundy is offline
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Official 2012-2013 NBA Thread

Looks like James Harden has been To the Rockets for Jeremey Lamb, Kevin Martin and future picks. Plus... this is a general NBA thread.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:36 AM   #1786
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6-6in chips is hard to beat. He's already been swept. I also don't think guys like shaq and Hakeem get enough credit. Them guys dominated for years and years. Hakeem had no weakness at all. Free throws, midrange post game rebounds one on one defense. Shot blocking and doing it with Houston. He carried his teams. All by himself basically.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:50 AM   #1787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
You kind of made it seem as if what LeBron is doing right now wasn't as impressive as that season (and as I showed, it very much is). They're both two of the greatest to ever play the game and both dominated the game at a very similar level. MJ is the past, though, and LeBron is the present and future.
I think what people want to see out of Lebron is what we saw out of him in that game 6 against Boston. That was pure desire and crazy results when he needed to do it. That's what MJ did during his run. That's the legacy he built. When I think of MJ(granted I was young when he went on his run) I think of clutch and unmatched will to win. All the skill and stats but clutch and unmatched will to win come before those things.

With Lebron he hasn't had enough time to answer clutch. I don't doubt his desire to win over other awards. And a lot of this is being bothered by how he went at these things for my own enjoyment. I wanted to see him go after Jordan. But I didn't want him to make a super-team to do it. Not that he is a jerk for doing it, but that it makes it less fun for me to watch. I do dislike him for how he handled that summer but I have forgiven Kobe for things in time.

I also don't like how Lebron is willing to sit back, well in the past especially. I want to see him turn into MJ on the big stage. To do what needs to be done himself. Really, he just isn't the showman in the playoffs like MJ was. Lebron did that against the Celtics, and that's what he needs to keep doing. In the end, that's the biggest legacy that MJ left IMO.

That's what Lebron is really fighting against. It's his ability to be as clutch as MJ(possible?) and show the same pure drive and will. That's a personality thing, but it's part of what MJ brought. Maybe it's not all fair to expect and demand, but if you are asking me to rate the two it is going to factor in. Him building that super-team doesn't help him accomplish those things the way I wanted him to. Again, maybe not fair, but I think that is part of the issue here. Another thing is hitting clutch shuts comes with opportunities. MJ had a ton of them.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:31 AM   #1788
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan View Post
I think what people want to see out of Lebron is what we saw out of him in that game 6 against Boston. That was pure desire and crazy results when he needed to do it. That's what MJ did during his run. That's the legacy he built. When I think of MJ(granted I was young when he went on his run) I think of clutch and unmatched will to win. All the skill and stats but clutch and unmatched will to win come before those things.

With Lebron he hasn't had enough time to answer clutch. I don't doubt his desire to win over other awards. And a lot of this is being bothered by how he went at these things for my own enjoyment. I wanted to see him go after Jordan. But I didn't want him to make a super-team to do it. Not that he is a jerk for doing it, but that it makes it less fun for me to watch. I do dislike him for how he handled that summer but I have forgiven Kobe for things in time.

I also don't like how Lebron is willing to sit back, well in the past especially. I want to see him turn into MJ on the big stage. To do what needs to be done himself. Really, he just isn't the showman in the playoffs like MJ was. Lebron did that against the Celtics, and that's what he needs to keep doing. In the end, that's the biggest legacy that MJ left IMO.

That's what Lebron is really fighting against. It's his ability to be as clutch as MJ(possible?) and show the same pure drive and will. That's a personality thing, but it's part of what MJ brought. Maybe it's not all fair to expect and demand, but if you are asking me to rate the two it is going to factor in. Him building that super-team doesn't help him accomplish those things the way I wanted him to. Again, maybe not fair, but I think that is part of the issue here. Another thing is hitting clutch shuts comes with opportunities. MJ had a ton of them.
Guess who won his first championship at a younger age than Michael Jordan (28)? LeBron James. It's almost like people forget that sometimes when they get into mythologizing MJ and denigrating LeBron's accomplishments. LeBron is actually ahead of where Jordan was at the same age (both statistically and with team success) and he isn't going to go off and suck at baseball for two years during his prime either in some kind of ego trip.

And that's another funny thing when people compare LeBron and Kobe right now. While Kobe's career is winding down (he says he'll retire after next year, I'm not sure I buy it), we haven't even reached the pinnacle of what LeBron will surely do in this game. It's just the beginning.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:41 AM   #1789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
They aren't dominating the game at a similar level.
From earlier:

Michael Jordan's 1987-1988 season: 31.7 PER, .603 TS%, .537 eFG%, 7.8 TRB%, 27.0 AST%, 3.6 STL%, 2.4 BLK%, 123 ORtg, 101 DRtg, 21.2 WS, .308 WS/48

LeBron James' 2012-2013 season: 31. 4 PER, .637 TS%, .604 eFG%, 13.0 TRB%, 34.1 AST%, 2.3 STL%, 1.8 BLK%, 124 ORtg, 103 DRtg, 12.3 WS (so far), .307 WS/48


Seems like pretty similar dominance to me unless the stats are lying or biased toward one guy (and you'd have to explain to me how that could be).
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:46 AM
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:52 AM   #1790
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Originally Posted by okcchief View Post
The dunk contest barely has any starters in it much less stars. I agree with Barkley on this in that the players need to give back to the fans. I personally give a shit about the game itself. Give me the best shooters and Dunkers going at it. I would LOVE to see some one on one battles. There is so much shit you can do with basketball to make the weekend incredible. Get the shoe sponsers to cough up some money to the players charities. It could be done if someone would champion the cause.
Can't say I cared at all and Ross was even in the dunk competition. I'd rather watch real sporting events like NCAAB or NHL during that time if the stars aren't going to compete in those events.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:17 AM   #1791
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Can't say I cared at all and Ross was even in the dunk competition. I'd rather watch real sporting events like NCAAB or NHL during that time if the stars aren't going to compete in those events.
Yeah, I put it on the DVR, but it was horrible. The only decent one in recent memory was the year Blake did it. They may as well not do it if stars are going to pass it by. If you don't play significant minutes for your team you should be no part of All-Star weekend period.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:50 AM   #1792
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Guess who won his first championship at a younger age than Michael Jordan (28)? LeBron James. It's almost like people forget that sometimes when they get into mythologizing MJ and denigrating LeBron's accomplishments. LeBron is actually ahead of where Jordan was at the same age (both statistically and with team success) and he isn't going to go off and suck at baseball for two years during his prime either in some kind of ego trip.

And that's another funny thing when people compare LeBron and Kobe right now. While Kobe's career is winding down (he says he'll retire after next year, I'm not sure I buy it), we haven't even reached the pinnacle of what LeBron will surely do in this game. It's just the beginning.
And Kobe was younger than both of them. MJ and Kobe both won 3 Titles in a row so if Lebron wants to be on their level he needs to do the same.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:57 AM   #1793
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
And Kobe was younger than both of them. MJ and Kobe both won 3 Titles in a row so if Lebron wants to be on their level he needs to do the same.
I bet MJ and LJ would have liked a prime Shaq in their younger years to carry them.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:00 AM   #1794
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Originally Posted by okcchief View Post
Yeah, I put it on the DVR, but it was horrible. The only decent one in recent memory was the year Blake did it. They may as well not do it if stars are going to pass it by. If you don't play significant minutes for your team you should be no part of All-Star weekend period.
The NHL All Star Weekend may be pretty boring (and the Home Run Derby most of the time too), but at least they get the stars doing it. The NBA's got a problem there that they need to fix.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:05 AM   #1795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okcchief View Post
Yeah, I put it on the DVR, but it was horrible. The only decent one in recent memory was the year Blake did it. They may as well not do it if stars are going to pass it by. If you don't play significant minutes for your team you should be no part of All-Star weekend period.
The dunk contest format sucks. James White choked, but Gerald Green's only problem was that he aimed too high. Apparently he had some crazy aerial choreography stuff with paul george he never got to pull off because he was saving it for the finals.

I was thinking they should either just give each player like 5 minutes to go out there and do as many or as few dunks as they want and judge them on the overall quality. If Nate Robinson wants to spend 4:50 missing the same dunk over and over again until he makes it, that dunk better be more amazing than the 6 dunks the other guy pulled off combined.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:27 AM   #1796
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:36 AM   #1797
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NBA is unwatchable.
It's true, I watched Miami/OKC on thursday and now I'm dead.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:37 AM   #1798
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NBA is unwatchable.
So is gay porn, but I still stay out of your thread about it.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:53 AM   #1799
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:48 AM   #1800
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You keep throwing in stats as if that's the only way to tell a story.

Let me repeat... Michael Jordan is one of the greatest athletes of all time, in any sport. And it wasn't just because of statistics, it was because he was also probably the most clutch player of any sport. Again, Jordan hit 50% of his game winners, and several of them were in the playoffs. I believe LeBron has hit less than a third and Kobe even worse. And yes, it is absolutely relevant someone else's point that Jordan was matching up on a regular basis with shutdown defenders like Gary Payton and Byron Russell and Joe Dumars.

This is the part where you conveniently throw out playoff "clutch" statistics on LeBron's part. But in that assessment, you'll also conveniently leave out that it was Wade, not LeBron, that was the go-to guy in late game situations in 2011. And last year, LeBron dominated 3.5 quarters but was very mediocre in games that were close with 5 minutes left and, if I remember correctly, I believe there were 8 chances for game-winning or game-tying shots and LeBron took 1 (which he missed). The rest he passed off to someone else to take. And then this is the part where you say that it shows great court vision for a hall of fame player to pass up the last shot. Sorry, bud, not going to pass if you're comparing him to Jordan. When the game was on the line, Jordan was going to take over. He knew it, the defense knew it, everybody knew it. And he still hit 50% of his game-winners.

The Heat didn't have a particularly tough road to the championship last year, and they faced a finals team in OKC that was horribly unready for the big stage. LeBron with the Heat has played against a crippled West, whereas Jordan beat some pretty intense finals competition and had some big Eastern conference rivals on a yearly basis.

You can't just use statistics to tell a story. Not when you're talking about the best of all time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
From earlier:

Michael Jordan's 1987-1988 season: 31.7 PER, .603 TS%, .537 eFG%, 7.8 TRB%, 27.0 AST%, 3.6 STL%, 2.4 BLK%, 123 ORtg, 101 DRtg, 21.2 WS, .308 WS/48

LeBron James' 2012-2013 season: 31. 4 PER, .637 TS%, .604 eFG%, 13.0 TRB%, 34.1 AST%, 2.3 STL%, 1.8 BLK%, 124 ORtg, 103 DRtg, 12.3 WS (so far), .307 WS/48


Seems like pretty similar dominance to me unless the stats are lying or biased toward one guy (and you'd have to explain to me how that could be).
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