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Old 02-14-2013, 02:26 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Republicans preparing the first filibuster of a DefSec nominee in American history.

We are even further into uncharted political waters.

Republicans are filibustering a nomination, something that's never, ever been done.

A former red state Republican war hero.

Because.... wait for it.........

He believes light exists between Israeli policy and American policy.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...medium=twitter

Hagel nomination hits a wall
By Domenico Montanaro, Deputy Political Editor, NBC News
4 hours ago

Chuck Hagel’s nomination just hit a major obstacle.

Hagel will not have the 60 votes to overcome a filibuster at tomorrow’s scheduled cloture vote, Republican leadership told Majority Leader Harry Reid Thursday, according to a Senate Democratic aide.

"My Republican colleagues had led us to believe they would not filibuster Senator Chuck Hagel's confirmation as Secretary of Defense,” Reid (D-NV) said in a statement released by his office. “But that has changed. Now, Senate Republicans have made it clear they intend to mount a full-scale filibuster, and block the Senate from holding a final passage vote on Senator Hagel's nomination. Make no mistake: Republicans are trying to defeat Senator Hagel's nomination by filibustering while submitting extraneous requests that will never be satisfied."

All 55 Democrats are supporting Hagel.

But just two Republicans have said they would vote for their former colleague, a Republican from Nebraska – Thad Cochran (R-MS) and Mike Johanns (R-NE). Hagel would need three more for his nomination to be able to proceed to an up-or-down vote, which Reid said would happen Saturday.

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), Roy Blunt (R-MO), and Susan Collins (R-ME) previously said they would not support a filibuster of Hagel, which would have given Hagel enough votes.

“I just do not believe a filibuster is appropriate, and I would oppose such a move," McCain said, adding, "I will try to make that argument to my colleagues.”

But McCain and Blunt have changed their tunes.

Republicans, like Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK), ranking member on the Armed Services Committee that considered Hagel’s nomination, are arguing that what they are doing is not a “filibuster.” They just want more information, they say, on his finances and speeches -- despite the answers Hagel submitted to the standard Senate questionnaire, as well as his contentious hearing.

That's something that caused Armed Services Chairman Carl Levin (D-MI) to accuse Republicans of an "unprecedented" double standard.

McCain, for one, wants more information from the White House on the attacks in Benghazi.

On MSNBC’s The Daily Rundown last week, Blunt was asked if he would support a filibuster of Hagel’s nomination.

“I doubt it; I doubt it,” he said. “I think for somebody who’s going to be there the length of time the president serves, as opposed to a Supreme Court judge, that a majority in the Senate should be able to confirm. I wouldn’t intend to be a part of that majority, but certainly my strong inclination would be that this is a vote that should be done by a majority, rather than a 60-vote standard. And this person is going to leave the day the president leaves. That makes a difference.”

Yet, Blunt’s office contends Blunt’s current position is not a switch.

“He hasn’t changed his original position at all,” said Amber Marchand, Blunt’s spokeswoman. “He’s just pointing out that Senator Hagel and the Obama Admin have not produced all of the information that’s been requested, and there has not been time for a full debate in the Senate, therefore the Senate should not move forward on a vote this week.”

Reid argued Thursday morning on the Senate floor that Republicans were playing politics with national security.

“For the sake of our national security, it’s time to put aside this political theater,” Reid said, accusing them of being more concerned about primaries and the Tea Party.

He said opponents were seeking delay after delay, saying there's been "one stall after another."

Hagel would be just the third cabinet secretary to require the 60 votes to overcome a filibuster. The other two were Dirk Kempthorne, George W. Bush’s nominee for Interior Secretary in 2006, and C. Williams Verity, Ronald Reagan’s pick to be Commerce Secretary in 1987, according to the Congressional Research Service.

Both, however, were easily confirmed and cleared the cloture hurdle, 85-8.

There has never been a cabinet secretary nominee who was successfully filibustered.

There have, however, been other high-level, non-judicial nominees, who have also required 60 votes.

For example:

2010- Ben Bernanke (Fed Chair, cloture invoked, passed 77-23)
2009- Hilda Solis (Labor, cloture invoked, but withdrawn)
2006- Dirk Kempthorne (Interior, cloture invoked, passed 85-8)
2005- Rob Portman (USTR, cloture invoked, but vitiated)
2005- John Bolton (US Amb to UN, cloture invoked, nomination rejected 54-38)
2005- Steven L. Johnson (EPA administrator, cloture invoked, passed 61-37)
2003- Michael Leavitt (EPA admin, cloture invoked but withdrawn)
1987- C. Willliam Verity (Commerce, cloture invoked, passed 85-8)
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:58 AM   #46
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Hagel is a dick to his own party and specifically pissed in the ear of McCain. That's a problem. Despite that he was going to sail through. All he had to do was the pro-forma hearing but he pissed down his leg. Obama/Hagel knew what was coming and had weeks to prepare. What's worse, Obama had just had Susan Rice get run through the meat grinder because Obama has no, zero, relationship with the Hill. Republicans or Democrats. His own supporters don't have a clue what Obama's end game is or what is going on at 1600. When Hagel stumbled and blood hit the water the R's were rightfully emboldened and went on the attack. And then took the guy apart and then commenced to corpse ****ing his ass.

This thing was done before Hagel went to the hearing. Once you get a chance to take a bite out of a cabinet nominee you take it. Sailing him through gives him strength. Sending him in weak means he is politically damaged and costs Obama time and political capital. Having rice and Hagel go down just is good for R's.

What is stunning is the party that invented Borking and has no qualms destroying political careers with lies has the temerity to get indignant that the feeding frenzy began in the hearing when their pick shit the bed.

Obama is incompetent. This is a fact borne out by his cabinet fights but also by the fact that he makes no effort to move legislation at all. Reid won't move Obama's gun package. Won't move Obama's climate change package. Won't touch Obama's budget. And Obama has already conceded he is going to circumvent Congress and move these initiatives through the agencies and EOs. So now, more than ever, it is critical to fight every cabinet nominee because they are going to be more empowered than ever to enact by fiat what is rightfully the purview of Congress.

In short Hagel/Obama knew the vulnerabilities and still failed. This failure is on them, not Republicans.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:03 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Do you believe the Obama administration has changed the American relationship with Israel "at all"?
Not in any significant way.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:04 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The GOP position and the DNP position on Israel are distinct.
Their actions? Not so much.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:04 PM   #49
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
Hagel is a dick to his own party and specifically pissed in the ear of McCain. That's a problem. Despite that he was going to sail through. All he had to do was the pro-forma hearing but he pissed down his leg. Obama/Hagel knew what was coming and had weeks to prepare. What's worse, Obama had just had Susan Rice get run through the meat grinder because Obama has no, zero, relationship with the Hill. Republicans or Democrats. His own supporters don't have a clue what Obama's end game is or what is going on at 1600. When Hagel stumbled and blood hit the water the R's were rightfully emboldened and went on the attack. And then took the guy apart and then commenced to corpse ****ing his ass.

This thing was done before Hagel went to the hearing. Once you get a chance to take a bite out of a cabinet nominee you take it. Sailing him through gives him strength. Sending him in weak means he is politically damaged and costs Obama time and political capital. Having rice and Hagel go down just is good for R's.

What is stunning is the party that invented Borking and has no qualms destroying political careers with lies has the temerity to get indignant that the feeding frenzy began in the hearing when their pick shit the bed.
Follow the money, bud.

The money going against the Hagel nomination came heavily from pro-Likud sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
In short Hagel/Obama knew the vulnerabilities and still failed.
Care to take a bet, then, since you claim to believe Hagel will fail?

Let's make a bet. I get your signature for the rest of 2013 if Hagel becomes SecDef.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:59 PM   #50
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Zero chance republicans are actually this stupid.
Hahaha.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:23 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Follow the money, bud.

The money going against the Hagel nomination came heavily from pro-Likud sources.



Care to take a bet, then, since you claim to believe Hagel will fail?

Let's make a bet. I get your signature for the rest of 2013 if Hagel becomes SecDef.
That's not what I said. They failed insofar as they are now spilling blood over a guy who was a walk in before that hearing. He will likely be confirmed but not without some blood and guts being spilt. If you think this is the path Obama wanted you're nuts. Hagel getting taken to the cleaners is no good for O.

This also puts off dealing with sequester, budget (like Reid would do it anyway) and all but guarantees another year where spending bills aren't dealt with meaning more CRs and an omnibus package...again. Republican or Democrat it is a shitty way to run a government.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:26 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
That's not what I said.
It actually is what you said, you just had to clarify because you weren't being specific. But I digress.

If you honestly think the Obama administration was anticipating smooth sailing for a guy who turned coat against his party on several key issues and (most importantly) opposes the GOP's marriage to the Likud, then you're high.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:31 PM   #53
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http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill...-be-confirmed-

Sen. McCain concedes Hagel will be confirmed
By Erik Wasson
02/17/13 11:24 AM ET

One of the leading critics of former Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.), President Obama's embattled nominee to become Defense secretary, told NBC's Meet the Press on Sunday that Hagel will end up being confirmed.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said that Hagel will be approved by the Senate even though he is the “most unimpressive” nominee he has ever seen.

“The fact is that Chuck Hagel made statements and took votes in the United States Senate particularly about Iran, his comments about Israel were atrocious, but he will be confirmed,” he said.

“We will have a vote when we get back and I am confident that Sen. Hagel probably will have the votes necessary to be confirmed as the secretary of Defense,” McCain added.

McCain voted with all but four other Republicans on Thursday to filibuster Hagel's nomination. He said Sunday that he did so to get enough time to more closely examine Hagel's record. He said that delaying the vote until after this week's recess provides a reasonable amount of time for consideration.

The senator, who claimed he is still a friend of Hagel's, said he will vote against the nomination after supporting an end to debate.

“I don't believe he is qualified but I don't believe we should hold up his nomination any further. I think it is a reasonable amount of time to have questions answered,” he said.

McCain said he is still pressing for answers on the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Consulate in Bengazi, Libya that killed four diplomats.

He said the list of unanswered questions shows a “massive cover-up on the part of the administration.”

McCain's comments came on a morning when Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) also indicated support for ending the filibuster. The vote of either man is enough to cut off debate in the Senate which requires 60 votes to end filibusters.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:45 AM   #54
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20...hn_mccain.html

The Many Chuck Hagel Vote Positions of John McCain
By David Weigel
Posted Friday, Feb. 15, 2013, at 9:22 AM

Democrats are bristling over what Sen. John McCain told Fox News yesterday, most of which he also thought important enough to say on the floor of the Senate.

Quote:
To be honest with you, Neil [Cavuto], it goes back to there's a lot of ill will towards Sen. Hagel because when he was a Republican [sic], he attacked President Bush mercilessly and say he was the worst president since Herbert Hoover and said the surge was the worst blunder since the Vietnam War, which was nonsense. He was anti-his own party and people. People don't forget that. You can disagree but if you're disagreeable, people don't forget that.
My "sic" is there because Hagel is still a Republican, but the whole graf is kind of a "sic." McCain, who has an outsized role in the media, was all over the damn place during the Hagel drama.

On January 31, Washingtonians trained their cold eyes on McCain as the guy who could make or break the nomination in hearings. McCain battered Hagel over his opposition to the surge—"Were you wrong? Yes or no? Yes or no?"—but that was pretty orthogonal to the issues that actually damaged Hagel.

On February 4, McCain defiantly told Politico that he would oppose a filibuster on Hagel. This kicked off a wave of well-informed speculation that Hagel basically had the votes to get through.

On February 6, McCain added his name to a letter, circulated by Sen. Ted Cruz, asking for the Armed Services Committee to hold off on a Hagel vote until the nominee delivered more speeches and financial records from 2008 onward.

Then, on February 10, McCain told Fox News that "we've never filibustered a Cabinet nominee and I don't think we should start here." Which made it sound like his vote would move Hagel through.

And then, this week, McCain started saying that he, Lindsey Graham, and Kelly Ayotte needed more answers on Benghazi—a detailed account of the president's actions that night—before they could back Hagel. Which is where he ended up, right before going on TV and suggesting that Republicans didn't like Hagel and voted accordingly. Washington expected McCain's vote to be pivotal, but the Hagel fight was the moment that Sen. Ted Cruz took over as the leader of the intellectual opposition.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:31 AM   #55
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Yes he does. SCOTUS is historically the only appointment where qualifications have been vetted.

But, thats not the point is it, no one is saying he's not qualified, are they?
Have you ever heard of John Tower?
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:36 AM   #56
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It's not Republicans, it's the NeoConservative and religious conservatives who have drunk the NC KoolAid. I like Hagel. He's from the FP realist camp more like Reagan. I think the qualification is bogus...it's his positions. I support the nomination of Hagel and this is one thing by Obama I am pleased.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:44 AM   #57
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What is it that Obama likes about Hagel? Is it the fact that Hagel was a lightweight legislator just like he was? Or that Hagel has nearly zero experience running an organization of any size? Or that Hagel is almost completely unarmed when it comes to the bureaucratic fights he will have to wage as the head of a cabinet department?

Can someone tell me what it is that attracts Obama to Hagel for this position?

My sense is that Republicans don't want to have to fight over appointments to the cabinet (as opposed to the courts where the stakes are much higher). They didn't fight Hillary. They didn't fight John Kerry. They didn't fight Leon Panetta, twice. They looked like they might have given Susan Rice some trouble, but that's completely understandable, IMO, given her curious role in the Benghazi scandal.

Can anyone imagine the buffoon who showed up as the nominee at Hagel's nomination hearing running one of the most important departments in our Federal government? His testimony was a disaster. Obama's continued support is disgraceful in every way except possibly personal loyalty.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:51 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
We need to stop pretending this is about petty politics.

What does Hagel fundamentally affect when he becomes SecDef?

Not Benghazi bullshit. Not drone warfare. Not the withdrawals.

Two potential areas where Hagel can have a huge impact: on the responsible reduction of the Pentagon budget, and on American influence on the Israel/Palenstine conflict.

Of those two, Republicans themselves have signed on to Pentagon spending cuts.

So that really only leaves the issue of Israel/Palestine, where the GOP has a vested interest, and the Obama administration has strayed far from the "no light" policy that the GOP literally follows and many in the DNP diligently ape.

Hagel as SecDef fundamentally changes what Israel can leverage with the United States with the respect to doing pretty much whatever they want with Palestine and tell the world to "**** off if you don't like it, America's got our backs." With Hagel on board, that's not as much of a guarantee as it used to be. Israel finds itself in a really difficult position right now. The country under the Likud has effectively isolated itself diplomatically as report after report comes out about the squalor the vast majority of Palestinians are forced to live under, whether Israel feels it's justified or not.

America, honestly, is the only tether left to plausible international support. With an Obama/Hagel run Pentagon, Israel may have to choose over the course of the next four years: continue their current path and risk greater isolation, or swerve from the path towards apartheid.
You come up with a list of two things the SecDef can influence and the Israeli/palestinian conflict is one of them? That's absurd. You seem too fixated on that issue to even pretend to have an objective view here.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:52 AM   #59
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http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...gel-matters-2/

Why Hagel Matters
Andrew Sullivan
Feb 18 2013 @ 11:47am

As I’ve written before, a huge amount of this is opposition to any US defense secretary who doesn’t see Israel as a 51st state or somehow subject to evangelical theological doctrines that over-rule any diplomatic ones. And insofar as Israel is an issue, they particularly oppose a defense secretary who believes that Israel’s continued settlement of the West Bank is a huge liability for the US in its relationship with the entire Muslim and Arab world and a constant recruiting mechanism for terrorists to attack the West. Then there’s Hagel’s deadly combination of two Purple Hearts and a foreign policy realism versus Dick Cheney’s five deferments in Vietnam and “ignorant interventionism”.

But Josh Marshall also notes the broader generational fact that Hagel and Obama do not see the Middle East as the center of America’s security challenges. As our oil independence grows, the relevance of all those oil-producing despotisms or democracies or failed states declines. And so the worldview that was defined as “mainstream” only a few years ago seriously is being challenged:

Quote:
Hagel in himself is no singular figure. But he’s part of the Scowcroft/Brezinzski et al. running critique of Bush era foreign policy. It’s not just that he didn’t vote for this or that declaration about the Iranian government or doesn’t toe the Likud line on the Israel/Palestine front. He’s one of those people who just don’t think these issues should be the be all and end all of our role in the world at all. And that’s extremely threatening to some people.
Indeed it is. For that is one reason they get up in the morning. I see Hagel’s nomination as the natural evolution of Obama’s slow but relentless shift of US foreign policy from neconservative dogma to conservative pragmatism (with a few small splotches of idealism). Of course, the neocon fanatics are threatened. As history unfolds, their catastrophic ideology will come to seem the temporary and horrifying exception, not the new rule. And when a member of their own party helps advance their consignment to the dustbin of failed ideologies, you can see why they are having a conniption.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:22 AM   #60
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2732370.html

Richard Shelby Plans To Vote For Chuck Hagel Confirmation
Luke Johnson
Posted: 02/21/2013 8:50 am EST

WASHINGTON--Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) plans to vote to confirm President Barack Obama's choice for defense secretary, former Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.), a major turn in favor for a nominee who has faced strong opposition from Senate Republicans.

"He’s probably as good as we’re going to get," Shelby said of Hagel in a Wednesday speech, according to a report in the Decatur Daily.

Shelby spokesman Jonathan Graffeo confirmed his intentions in an email to The Huffington Post. "Barring any unforseen surprises before the votes, Sen. Shelby intends to support both nominations," he said, adding that he would vote for Treasury Secretary nominee Jack Lew as well.

Senate Republicans succeeded in sustaining an unprecedented filibuster on Hagel's nomination Thursday after Democrats failed to get the 60 votes needed to invoke cloture. The Senate is currently in recess, but Hagel is likely to face an easier road after this week.

Hagel has faced questions over his comments about the Israeli lobby's influence in Washington, his position on Iran and his outspoken criticism of the war In Iraq, despite the fact that he initially voted for it.
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