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Old 02-18-2013, 09:57 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Universal pre-K for American children: why are we not doing this?

We have extensive evidence that pre-K education programs make a huge difference in the early learning trajectories of children (David Brooks accurately cites the the Perry and Abecedarian projects as stunning successes). There's evidence that it could reduce poverty and increase the most important aspect of America: social mobility. Social mobility is why America is America -- and universal pre-K helps make that possible.

Head Start has had a difficult time showing the same kind of successes, but many states have supplemented and refined it to actually produce effective results. The Obama administration's plan is to enhance these state improvements by providing funding, and measuring their results -- in other words, it's a perfectly federalist solution. States do all the work, the federal government measures their success and buttresses their efforts financially.

The key: score some incremental improvement through state experimentation. That improvement early in life becomes a key advantage later in life.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/15/op....html?hp&_r=1&

When Families Fail
By DAVID BROOKS
Published: February 14, 2013

Today millions of American children grow up in homes where they don’t learn the skills they need to succeed in life. Their vocabularies are tiny. They can’t regulate their emotions. When they get to kindergarten they’ve never been read a book, so they don’t know the difference between the front cover and the back cover.

But, starting a few decades ago, we learned that preschool intervention programs could help. The efforts were small and expensive, but early childhood programs like the Perry and Abecedarian projects made big differences in kids’ lives. The success of these programs set off a lot of rhapsodic writing, including by me, about the importance of early childhood education. If government could step in and provide quality preschool, then we could reduce poverty and increase social mobility.

But this problem, like most social problems, is hard. The big federal early childhood program, Head Start, has been chugging along since 1965, and the outcomes are dismal. Russ Whitehurst of the Brookings Institution summarizes the findings of the most rigorous research: “There is no measurable advantage to children in elementary school of having participated in Head Start. Further, children attending Head Start remain far behind academically once they are in elementary school. Head Start does not improve the school readiness of children from low-income families.”

Fortunately, that is not the end of the story. Over the past several years, there’s been a flurry of activity, as states and private groups put together better early childhood programs. In these programs, the teachers are better trained. There are more rigorous performance standards. The curriculum is better matched to the one the children will find when they enter kindergarten.

These state programs, in places like Oklahoma, Georgia and New Jersey, have not been studied as rigorously as Head Start. There are huge quality differences between different facilities in the same state or the same town. The best experts avoid sweeping conclusions. Nonetheless, there’s a lot of evidence to suggest that these state programs can make at least an incremental difference in preparing children for school and in getting parents to be more engaged in their kids’ education.

These programs do not perform miracles, but incremental improvements add up year by year and produce significantly better lives.

Enter President Obama. This week he announced the most ambitious early childhood education expansion in decades. Early Thursday morning, early education advocates were sending each other ecstatic e-mails. They were stunned by the scope of what Obama is proposing.

But, on this subject, it’s best to be hardheaded. So I spent Wednesday and Thursday talking with experts and administration officials, trying to be skeptical. Does the president’s plan merely expand the failing federal effort or does it focus on quality and reform? Is the president trying to organize a bloated centralized program or is he trying to be a catalyst for local experimentation?

So far the news is very good. Obama is trying to significantly increase the number of kids with access to early education. The White House will come up with a dedicated revenue stream that will fund early education projects without adding to the deficit. These federal dollars will be used to match state spending, giving states, many of whom want to move aggressively, further incentive to expand and create programs.

But Washington’s main role will be to measure outcomes, not determine the way states design their operations. Washington will insist that states establish good assessment tools. They will insist that pre-K efforts align with the K-12 system. But beyond that, states will have a lot of latitude.

Should early education centers be integrated with K-12 school buildings or not? Should the early childhood teachers be unionized or certified? Obama officials say they want to leave those sorts of questions up to state experimentation. “I’m just about building quality,” Education Secretary Arne Duncan told me. The goal is to make the federal oversight as simple as possible.

That’s crucial. There’s still a lot we don’t know about how to educate children that young. The essential thing is to build systems that can measure progress, learn and adapt to local circumstances. Over time, many children will migrate from Head Start into state programs.

This is rude to say, but here’s what this is about: Millions of parents don’t have the means, the skill or, in some cases, the interest in building their children’s future. Early childhood education is about building structures so both parents and children learn practical life skills. It’s about getting kids from disorganized homes into rooms with kids from organized homes so good habits will rub off. It’s about instilling achievement values where they are absent.

President Obama has taken on a big challenge in a realistic and ambitious way. If Republicans really believe in opportunity and local control, they will get on board.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:33 PM   #46
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post

Do you think our Founders were unsocialized too? There's something to say for playing outdoors in open space on their own than being crammed in buildings with some authoritarian adult bossing them around on what to do.
You would be a great writer at the Onion.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:39 PM   #47
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Who are you to tell other parents when and how their children should be socialized?
Not everyone is like you either.

Quit being authoritarian about this in a free country. This is not a govt matter—there is also no Constitutional authority for the Federal govt being involved in such engineering or any education.

Some kids never socialize, despite going to public school. Look at the current socialization results today from that. . There was a time in America when there were neighborhoods full of kids interacting with each other daily outside before K. Kids did just fine, actually better in some ways then. Of course mothers were home then too.

Do you think our Founders were unsocialized too? There's something to say for playing outdoors in open space on their own than being crammed in buildings with some authoritarian adult bossing them around on what to do.
I'll just go out on a limb here and say that whatever BEP's parents did, don't do that.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:22 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Who are you to tell other parents when and how their children should be socialized?
Not everyone is like you either.
I didn't tell anyone what to do. I made an observation and a statement. I can suggest things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Quit being authoritarian about this in a free country. This is not a govt matter—there is also no Constitutional authority for the Federal govt being involved in such engineering or any education.
I'm not being authoritarian. I'm stating an opinion which I'm granted by the 1st amendment. If you read my following post, you'd see I"m not advocating government action. Perhaps you should grow up a little and read all the information before being hateful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Some kids never socialize, despite going to public school. Look at the current socialization results today from that. . There was a time in America when there were neighborhoods full of kids interacting with each other daily outside before K. Kids did just fine, actually better in some ways then. Of course mothers were home then too.
Ummm... okay? So you think being around peers is not a good thing for the development of a human being regardless of the setting. You're a moron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Do you think our Founders were unsocialized too? There's something to say for playing outdoors in open space on their own than being crammed in buildings with some authoritarian adult bossing them around on what to do.
You are bat shit crazy. I've advocated nothing of the sort, merely advocated social interaction with peers. Stop looking to be outraged and learn to have an adult conversation.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:27 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
You would be a great writer at the Onion.
Apparently our founders were raised in a bubble.

Contact with other humans would have tainted them.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:29 PM   #50
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Preschool is actually one of the programs Obama pushes that I support.

Kids learn early easier than later. This program probably isn't as much benefit to children like mine who are read to nightly essentially from birth, or my 2yr old that knows all the letters and counts into the 20s. They do well because we work with them all of the time....and I still want them in preschool if available.

There is a pretty big segment of society that doesn't take the time to read with their kids, to teach them fundamentals, or the basic principles of being a decent human being. You don't have to look to far to see those kids. Getting them in early I do agree helps them get going and they won't be as far behind when they do start school.

I think this is a good thing to spend tax payer money on. Making our kids more educated should have an influence on getting more of them to be productive and successful adult citizens.
Actually, reading to kids is overrated for teaching reading.
You may think it's a good thing to spend other people's money on but there is still NO authority for the Federal govt to be involved in education.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:30 PM   #51
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Logical fallacy

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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Apparently our founders were raised in a bubble.
Yet, no one made this argument. The argument made was they were socialized without preKs.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:37 PM   #52
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I did not attend any school until first grade. All of my children went through two years of preschool and one year of kindergarten before first grade. We paid for the preschool and it wasn't a hardship, the "tuition" was quite reasonable. There were several options available. We also have a state sponsored preschool in our small (7k pop) town. We've had two ladies run the place since I've lived here. I was friends with the first lady (she remarried and moved) and am friends with the current lady. You also mentioned Head Start. We have a Head Start program in town as well. The structure was a private preschool, then a daycare before it became a Head Start center. We also have two daycare centers that I know of. So, if a town of approx 7k people can give parents five different choices in early childhood development (home, preschool, state preschool, Head Start, daycare), why do we need more federally mandated programs?
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:43 PM   #53
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Inability to detect irony

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Yet, no one made this argument.
I was being ironic because....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The argument made was they were socialized without preKs.
I never made the argument that it was the only way to socialize kids. I was simply stating that it's Pre-k's primary value. It's certainly not education.

Look, I play the game other people pitch to me. If you want to talk like a grown up, we can do that. If you want to be all indignant and look for reasons to be outraged, I'm gonna **** with you and never take you seriously.

I wasn't trying to be disagreeable. It was a ****ing anecdote.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:48 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Ummm... okay? So you think being around peers is not a good thing for the development of a human being regardless of the setting. You're a moron. .

Is that true? I don't know either way, but one attack on home schooled kids is that they grow up de-socialized because they're not in large group settings. That has largely been debunked I believe. What does the data show?
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:04 AM   #55
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Is that true? I don't know either way, but one attack on home schooled kids is that they grow up de-socialized because they're not in large group settings. That has largely been debunked I believe. What does the data show?
I was being antagonistic, not sincere. Even the sarcasm wasn't sincere.

There are many (and better) ways for kids to socialize outside of a school setting. It's not an all or nothing ordeal, but if your kids aren't in school they should probably STILL interact with other kids via activities they enjoy that they can share with other kids. I was originally just making a point about isolation being bad for social development.

You'll end up with a brony.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:57 AM   #56
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Well sure. I dont' think anyone incl Buc was suggesting we isolate them like hermits.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:01 AM   #57
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Well sure. I dont' think anyone incl Buc was suggesting we isolate them like hermits.
Of course not. This, imo, is about shaping minds earlier for PC—not true education.

True Story Example: A Kindergarten in Freeport Maine.
Five year old comes home saying during the election:
"I don't want that white guy to win."
Followed by another day:
"Obama. Obama. Obama."
Another day, brings a book home on Global Warming. ( Only the parent reads it substituting the words GW with "global cooling."
I don't trust the Progressive Left when they make claims this is to better educate children. Education, today, is about political indoctrination. It's already been happening here. Just as many Republicans are blind to what is going on in education.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:04 AM   #58
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
I was being ironic because....



I never made the argument that it was the only way to socialize kids. I was simply stating that it's Pre-k's primary value. It's certainly not education.

Look, I play the game other people pitch to me. If you want to talk like a grown up, we can do that. If you want to be all indignant and look for reasons to be outraged, I'm gonna **** with you and never take you seriously.

I wasn't trying to be disagreeable. It was a ****ing anecdote.
All indignant? It's called disagreeing with a pov in a debate. Deal with it. Obviously you can't, since you called someone else a moron who disagreed with you. Apparently, you still haven't been socialize.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:06 AM   #59
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If my five year old came home with a book on global warming, it would be hand-delivered (with force) back to the face of the idiot who gave him the book.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:09 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't trust the Progressive Left when they make claims this is to better educate children. Education, today, is about political indoctrination.
This is what every reactionary says about education. It's why Socrates was killed. "He's indoctrinating the youth with his radicalism and atheism! Drink hemlock!"
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