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Old 02-19-2013, 06:53 AM  
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Peter King: You have to go back to 1997 to find a draft like this one

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl.../?sct=uk_wr_a1





You'd probably have to go back to 1997 to find a draft like this one. That's the year Peyton Manning eschewed the prospect of going to the Jets first overall to play for Bill Parcells and returned for his senior year at Tennessee. One quarterback (shaky Jim Druckenmiller, 26th) picked in round one. Two backs (Warrick Dunn 12th and Antowain Smith 23rd) in round one, and four receivers in the first: Ike Hilliard seventh, Yatil Green 15th, Reidel Anthony 16th and Rae Carruth 27th. Yikes! What a horrible draft for point-producers. One star, Dunn, out of seven first-rounders.

That could repeat this year. It's likely Alabama's Eddie Lacy will be the only running back taken in round one. Tennessee's Cordarrelle Patterson leads the muddled pack at wide receiver, but how sure can you really be of junior-college transfers who play one year of major-college football, which is Patterson's profile?

The quarterbacks are a total mish-mosh at this point. One GM interested in acquiring a quarterback this offseason told me over the weekend, "I expect more attention on the quarterbacks throwing this year than on any other single thing at the Combine.'' Some think Geno Smith of West Virginia will go first overall to quarterback-needy Kansas City; one personnel man who studied all the top quarterbacks for a team in need of one last fall told me, "There's not one quarterback, including Smith, I would take in the first round."

Two points about that. If you need a quarterback, you can talk brave in February, but when reality sets in around draft day, and you haven't picked up a quarterback in free agency, all of a sudden the zits on Smith, Matt Barkley and other others don't seem as bad. And we're nine and a half weeks from round one. There's no way that Andy Reid and John Dorsey, the coach and GM for Kansas City, know what they're doing now. They need time to investigate and to watch tape on the eight or 10 quarterbacks.


But in some ways, 2013 should be a catchup year for the other positions. Opening day 2013 could feature 12 starting quarterbacks drafted in 2011 and '12; that's far, far above the norm in a game that values veteran arms at the position.

Now for a couple of notes about players at the Combine.

Alec Ogletree. The underclass inside linebacker from Georgia would be a clear top-10 pick with a clean resume. But he was suspended the first four games of last season for failing an offseason drug test, and then came the news Saturday night, via ProFootballTalk.com, that Ogletree recently was pinched for driving while intoxicated.

Ogletree and agent Pat Dye were smart to come out and beat the police blotter to the punch. As for the damage done by the arrest, Ogletree, who is a speed demon for an inside player, the kind of player who, if right, would be a perfect fit as a rare three-down inside linebacker for any team, has to convince teams they shouldn't be worried about a player who has tested positive, been suspended, and gotten a DWI in the span of about nine months.

Some GM is going to stake his reputation on Ogletree in the first round, most likely. Which GM? It would have to be a secure one. Green Bay's Ted Thompson or de facto GM Bill Belichick of the Patriots or Baltimore's Ozzie Newsome, all down near the bottom of the round.

Manti Te'o. The Notre Dame linebacker has spent a lot of time practicing football and practicing what he's going to say to teams. His last game, against Alabama, was a nightmare (he was awful, and overpowered), and then the whole fake girlfriend story came up, making him a national story and, in some quarters, a national joke. It won't matter much how he works out in Indianapolis. What will matter are the 15-minute interviews he'll have in formal evening sessions with teams, and in less formal settings, seeing coaches and personnel people at the stadium and around his hotel.

No men have more on the line, off the field, at the Scouting Combine than Ogletree and Te'o.

Finally, three players I'll be watching at the Combine, three with question marks and debatable upsides:

1. Quarterback Sean Renfree, Duke. No one's talking about him, but he completed 70 percent of his throws in six of 12 games for David Cutcliffe last fall, was a comeback specialist, and has the pedigree in a good pro-style offense to play early. Could he be more than a late-round flyer, this year's Ryan Lindley? We'll see.

2. Cornerback Xavier Rhodes, Florida State. A 6-2 cornerback in a league demanding cover guys who can play on islands more and more? Scouts want to see if Rhodes, who is a heady player with good bump skills at the line of scrimmage, has the speed to stay with fast wideouts. If so, he'll be a top-half-of-the-first-round player.

3. Running back Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina. After his devastating dislocated knee and torn knee ligaments in October, Lattimore, considered a certain first-rounder before the injury, is still in recovery mode. His surgeon, James Andrews, told Lattimore recently that he's going to shock the world. "I hear he's working out great,'' said Mayock. Lattimore believes he'll be healthy enough to start the 2013 NFL season. Is he's a fourth-round minefield pick? Or might some team desperate for a back go for him a round earlier -- or even late in the second round?



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Old 02-19-2013, 01:48 PM   #166
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I can remember a few of kirwins mock. It went like this:

1 Smith
2 Bjorn Werner (Jags)
3
4 Joekel (Eagles)
5
6
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8 Barkley (Buffalo)

Ill get the rest and try to record it when I get home.

He said team are scared to death of stenosis and he expects J Jones to drop like a stone because of it.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:00 PM   #167
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Originally Posted by beach tribe View Post
He said team are scared to death of stenosis and he expects J Jones to drop like a stone because of it.
Been saying this for a couple of months.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:06 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Oh for ****s sake - that's the best you have?

You're right, it was Trent Green's fault we didn't win anything. It had nothing to do with the career day defense.

When people make shitty arguments, they detract from the good ones. Yours is one of the former.
I really didn't think your post deserved my best shot. You said Alex Smith could be Trent Green, and I don't want another Trent Green. Why settle for another Trent Green?

So you really think Trent Green was a SB quality QB? Seriously? Like I said, he is getting better with age.

No doubt, he was a pillar of the community and a great guy, but he did have a lot of faults behind center. Like when he was rushed he would overthrow the ball repeatedly.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:12 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd View Post
I really didn't think your post deserved my best shot. You said Alex Smith could be Trent Green, and I don't want another Trent Green. Why settle for another Trent Green?

So you really think Trent Green was a SB quality QB? Seriously? Like I said, he is getting better with age.

No doubt, he was a pillar of the community and a great guy, but he did have a lot of faults behind center. Like when he was rushed he would overthrow the ball repeatedly.
You overstate SB caliber.

Trent Green was easily as good at his peak as Joe Flacco is now.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:13 PM   #170
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:14 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
You overstate SB caliber.

Trent Green was easily as good at his peak as Joe Flacco is now.
Yup never understood the trent hate on here. He was easily a top 10 qb.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:20 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
You overstate SB caliber.

Trent Green was easily as good at his peak as Joe Flacco is now.
You really think so? I don't, but I guess that is ok, opinions.

Do you think Trent threw as good of a deep ball? As accurate? As composed?

That being said, Flacco winning the SB this year has given a lot of second tier QBs hope, since it wasn't a Manning or Luck caliber getting the win.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:22 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by HemiEd View Post
You really think so? I don't, but I guess that is ok, opinions.

Do you think Trent threw as good of a deep ball? As accurate? As composed?

That being said, Flacco winning the SB this year has given a lot of second tier QBs hope, since it wasn't a Manning or Luck caliber getting the win.
Deep ball? No. I've said for quite some time that Flacco throws among the best deep balls in the league.

I think Green was far more accurate on intermediate routes though, and yeah, I definitely think he was as composed. He was a better decisionmaker and ran a far more complicated offense than I think Flacco's capable of running.

They're different, but in the end I think Green was a more productive and versatile QB than Flacco is now.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:24 PM   #174
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Yup never understood the trent hate on here. He was easily a top 10 qb.
Hate is very inaccurate term, more like reality.

This team has had such god awful crap behind center for the last 7 years, that now Trent Green is a friggen HOF QB.

I gave him his due, and always have, but nothing more.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:27 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Deep ball? No. I've said for quite some time that Flacco throws among the best deep balls in the league.

I think Green was far more accurate on intermediate routes though, and yeah, I definitely think he was as composed. He was a better decisionmaker and ran a far more complicated offense than I think Flacco's capable of running.

They're different, but in the end I think Green was a more productive and versatile QB than Flacco is now.
That is a well thought out post, and you make me re-think some of my position. It is just hard for me to get it out my mind seeing him overthrow balls into the ground when under pressure.

That offense was very complicated, and that is a great point. But Trent had the luxury of the best running attack this team has ever had, and among the very ever.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:30 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by HemiEd View Post
That is a well thought out post, and you make me re-think some of my position. It is just hard for me to get it out my mind seeing him overthrow balls into the ground when under pressure.

That offense was very complicated, and that is a great point. But Trent had the luxury of the best running attack this team has ever had, and among the very ever.
He also had 2 HoFers and 2 more perennial All Pros in front of him.

That was one of the best offensive lines in the history of football.

That being said, Trent had a run with the Rams in 2000 that was literally one of the best stretches of games I've ever seen out of NFL QB.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:32 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by HemiEd View Post
That is a well thought out post, and you make me re-think some of my position. It is just hard for me to get it out my mind seeing him overthrow balls into the ground when under pressure.

That offense was very complicated, and that is a great point. But Trent had the luxury of the best running attack this team has ever had, and among the very ever.
Trent Green flawlessly executed the Coryell offense under Cam Cameron, yet Flacco struggled for years in that same offense. It wasn't until Cameron was fired and replaced with Jim Caldwell that Flacco finally became the first rounder that the Ravens envisioned when they chose him in 2008.

I think that Trent was a cerebral as a QB you could find, in any era, and it's a damn shame that Rodney Harrison robbed him of what could have been an even better career.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:36 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd View Post
That is a well thought out post, and you make me re-think some of my position. It is just hard for me to get it out my mind seeing him overthrow balls into the ground when under pressure.

That offense was very complicated, and that is a great point. But Trent had the luxury of the best running attack this team has ever had, and among the very ever.
Well it's important to separate TrINT from Trent. He got himself so far behind the 8-ball with the fanbase here after that first season that yeah, it's easy to remember those balls got on top of and hammered into the turf.

But when he was at his apex, those 4 years from 2002-2005, man he was precise. In those 4 years he averaged damn near 8 yds/attempt. And that was when only guys like Manning and Brady were putting up numbers like that. To put it into perspective, even with weapons like Boldin and Torrey Smith, Flacco's never averaged better than 7.4 YPA and on his career is averaging 7.1. That's even with the fact that he's a very good downfield passer.

Yeah, the system helped, but even the YAC yards were a result of the fact that he was so good at hitting guys in stride and frankly he just didn't miss very often.

For a guy with a sub-standard arm to be able to hit at 8 yds/attempt means that he was firing a hell of a grouping. He was putting it in the right spot almost every time.

History, if anything, has been extremely unkind to Trent Green. We don't realize how good we had it with that guy over those 4 seasons and I think that is almost exclusively because of how quickly people soured on him in 2001.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:41 PM   #179
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Green was never a game manager in the martyball sense of the word. As much as they ran Priest, the offense still went through Green. Too much so in some cases, where they'd outsmart themselves when a straight-ahead play would have sufficed. In any case, the guy was really good, and it's a travesty he didn't win in January here.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:51 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
He also had 2 HoFers and 2 more perennial All Pros in front of him.

That was one of the best offensive lines in the history of football.

That being said, Trent had a run with the Rams in 2000 that was literally one of the best stretches of games I've ever seen out of NFL QB.
Without question. To me, the biggest tragedy in that whole offense was Priest getting injured by Merriman. To me, Priest was the key to that offense behind that line.

In no way did I intend to take anything away from Trent's intelligence and character.

Quote:
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Trent Green flawlessly executed the Coryell offense under Cam Cameron, yet Flacco struggled for years in that same offense. It wasn't until Cameron was fired and replaced with Jim Caldwell that Flacco finally became the first rounder that the Ravens envisioned when they chose him in 2008.

I think that Trent was a cerebral as a QB you could find, in any era, and it's a damn shame that Rodney Harrison robbed him of what could have been an even better career.
Flawless, really?

Don't you think some of the Flacco success is due to him maturing in the NFL, after 4 years?
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