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Old 02-15-2013, 01:03 AM  
listopencil listopencil is offline
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Pope Benedict Seeking Immunity?

Pope Benedict to seek immunity and protection from Italian President Giorgio Napolitano on February 23 Posted on February 14, 2013 by itccs

http://itccs.org/2013/02/14/pope-ben...n-february-23/

Pope Benedict, Joseph Ratzinger, has scheduled a meeting with Italian President Giorgio Napolitano for Saturday, February 23 to discuss securing protection and immunity from prosecution from the Italian government, according to Italian media sources.

Ratzinger's meeting follows upon the apparent receipt by the Vatican of a diplomatic note from an undisclosed European government on February 4, stating its intention to issue an arrest warrant for Ratzinger, who resigned from his pontificate less than a week later.

In response to the February 23 meeting, the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (ITCCS), through its field Secretary, Rev. Kevin Annett, has written to President Napolitano, asking him to refrain from assisting Ratzinger in evading justice.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:13 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
In your opinion. We can agree to disagree. The Catholic Church cared more about protecting itself and pedophile priests than it did about children, and they did so for many, many years. The criticism they are getting is well deserved, and it is reasonable to not give them benefit of the doubt.
No, it's not reasonable. Not when you keep painting with such a wildly broad brush.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:16 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, it's not reasonable. Not when you keep painting with such a wildly broad brush.
Again, agree to disagree. Has the RCC told us everything? I highly doubt it. Until they come clean with their sin, if they get painted with a brush that is too wild, so be it. That is part of the consequences of covering up such heinous crimes for almost half a century.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:17 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The extent of the problem is that it was 2% of priests. If you want to say 4% that's still not most of them. It's just those priests did it to numerous children over many years. This is the same percent of cases as happens in other denominations who keep it quiet. Yes, protestants as well as rabbis too. With teachers, I've read it's as high as 10% and yes they move them around to other districts too. It's called "passing the trash." Families hide it, Boy Scouts hide it...Face it—people don't like to admit it happened in their group.

One of America's favorite pastimes is bashing the RCC. It's should be called a sport.
Don't know where you got your numbers, but given your history, they are likely BS. "You read" that for teachers "it's as high as 10%"? Oh, you read that? That's quite a source.

Anyway, a big difference between the Catholic church and a Protestant church or a Jewish synagogue is how the organization is set up. Most churches and synogogues are independent entities. They are basically on their own. They do their own hiring/firing. They are not part of a larger organization with control over them. There's not a bureaucracy to ignore what happened, cover it up and and simply place the offender somewhere else.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:18 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
slag, thanks for the candid post.

Unfortunately, way too many traditions in the catholic church are rooted in paganism, and are not backed by scripture. To put a mere man on a throne, a crown on his head and call him holy father and the vicar of Christ... is blasphemous. Christ himself rejected being called holy, stating only God was Holy. Telling another mere man your sins, repetitive prayers to a false idol for repentance? extravagant churches, relics...nope... candles, incense, black robes and claiming wine and bread are the the actual blood and body of Christ? Christ still on the cross?...nope.....His death was the blood sacrifice, but it was the ressurection that made salvation true...

Positive that some Cathloics wiil make it to heaven, but catholicsim in of itself is troublesome...all that wealth while so many south american countries still live in squalor? not allowing clergy to marry helped propigate the homosexuality that has come to light.
Exactly.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:18 AM   #110
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BEP: Yeah, the author brings up a lot of solid points. A few things did pop into my head though.

It is my impression (not necessarily true, but this is how I view the culture) that Catholics are largely divided by gender in the clergy. So you end up with males working almost exclusively with males on an intimate basis. That would seem to aid in the creation of circumstances where homosexual behavior could happen, and if male children are involved in those situations then the private nature of those relationships can easily be taken advantage of by pedophiles.

It's not true that heterosexuals don't display a comparable obsession with little girls in their fantasies. I admit that I'm not overly familiar with gay porn so I may be overstating this, but the sexualization of female children is a huge problem in many societies. Including our own. During my own lifetime I have witnessed this trend in America. Youth worship in the media, glamorization and sexualization of prepubescent/pubescent/slightly post-pubescent females, artificial extension of adolescence (mainly for economic reasons) and the robust development of childhood as an advertising market.

Other than that, I think the reasoning is that if members of the clergy were given a healthy sexual outlet via the possibility of marriage than they would be more likely to use that outlet to relieve psychological pressure.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:20 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Don't know where you got your numbers, but given your history, they are likely BS. "You read" that for teachers "it's as high as 10%"? Oh, you read that? That's quite a source.

Anyway, a big difference between the Catholic church and a Protestant church or a Jewish synagogue is how the organization is set up. Most churches and synogogues are independent entities. They are basically on their own. They do their own hiring/firing. They are not part of a larger organization with control over them. There's not a bureaucracy to ignore what happened, cover it up and and simply place the offender somewhere else.
Great point on church organization. The large bureaucracy of the RCC did not help, but that is not an excuse for not addressing the situation.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:21 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by tomahawk kid View Post
Watched the documentary yesterday.

What's even more shocking / damning is the priests who DID try to help and who DID report the abuse.

They were basically told to move on and that it was "being handled".

I tell you, I'm a lifelong Catholic - and this whole sexual abuse scandal has shaken my belief in the church to its core / made it nonexistent. I no longer feel obligated to go to Mass and they sure as hell aren't getting one dime of my money.

ESPECIALLY here in KC, where Bishop Finn moved that sick SOB from parish to parish.
What are you talking about? If you really are a Catholic, lifelong or otherwise, you seem to be a poorly informed one.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:24 AM   #113
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:24 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Again, agree to disagree. Has the RCC told us everything? I highly doubt it. Until they come clean with their sin, if they get painted with a brush that is too wild, so be it. That is part of the consequences of covering up such heinous crimes for almost half a century.
No, you're responsible for your own wild accusations. Even if you're ignorant because you haven't been briefed by an RCC official, it's no excuse for letting your imagination run wild.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, you're responsible for your own wild accusations. Even if you're ignorant because you haven't been briefed by an RCC official, it's no excuse for letting your imagination run wild.
I'd agree and would argue that such reasoning also applies to conversations regarding our President.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:30 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Great point on church organization. The large bureaucracy of the RCC did not help, but that is not an excuse for not addressing the situation.
BEP was trying to downplay the Catholic chuch by saying it also happens in other places and they simply "pass the trash". What I was trying to say is that the organization of the Catholic church actually helped them get away with this stuff and made it worse. The bureaucracy helped them get away with it. And it made the problem worse because it shielded the offenders and often allowed them to continue the behavior somewhere else after re-asssignment. It also mean more people likely knew about what happened, which makes it even worse that none of them reported it to to police or otherweise did anything about it.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:31 AM   #117
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I'd agree and would argue that such reasoning also applies to conversations regarding our President.
Yes, of course.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:33 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, you're responsible for your own wild accusations. Even if you're ignorant because you haven't been briefed by an RCC official, it's no excuse for letting your imagination run wild.
I have made no wild accusations. The RCC must not think the accusations against are that wild, since they seem to settle a large amount of these cases out of court for huge sums of money.

I am responsible for what I say. So is the RCC...and the fact that they denied they had a problem for decades, and the at denial has led to a credibility issue with the church on this issue is not my problem.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:34 AM   #119
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:36 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
I have made no wild accusations. The RCC must not think the accusations against are that wild, since they seem to settle a large amount of these cases out of court for huge sums of money.

I am responsible for what I say. So is the RCC...and the fact that they denied they had a problem for decades, and the at denial has led to a credibility issue with the church on this issue is not my problem.
You certainly have. You make absolutely no effort to focus your criticisms on anyone who may plausibly have guilt but instead target the entire church and all of it's leadership. It's a reckless disregard for the truth.
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