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Old 02-15-2013, 12:03 AM  
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Pope Benedict Seeking Immunity?

Pope Benedict to seek immunity and protection from Italian President Giorgio Napolitano on February 23 Posted on February 14, 2013 by itccs

http://itccs.org/2013/02/14/pope-ben...n-february-23/

Pope Benedict, Joseph Ratzinger, has scheduled a meeting with Italian President Giorgio Napolitano for Saturday, February 23 to discuss securing protection and immunity from prosecution from the Italian government, according to Italian media sources.

Ratzinger's meeting follows upon the apparent receipt by the Vatican of a diplomatic note from an undisclosed European government on February 4, stating its intention to issue an arrest warrant for Ratzinger, who resigned from his pontificate less than a week later.

In response to the February 23 meeting, the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (ITCCS), through its field Secretary, Rev. Kevin Annett, has written to President Napolitano, asking him to refrain from assisting Ratzinger in evading justice.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:38 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You certainly have. You make absolutely no effort to focus your criticisms on anyone who may plausibly have guilt but instead target the entire church and all of it's leadership. It's a reckless disregard for the truth.
I love a good witch hunt.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:45 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You certainly have. You make absolutely no effort to focus your criticisms on anyone who may plausibly have guilt but instead target the entire church and all of it's leadership. It's a reckless disregard for the truth.
I do not that this is an accurate statement...you seem to think that the leadership of the RCC church should get a free pass. That is well within your right of opinion. I, and many others, happen to disagree.

Did Benedict, prior to being named Pope, have any knowledge about specific instances of child molestation in the church? I think it has been shown that he did. Did Benedict report said abuse to the proper authorities? No. To me, that is a heinous act on Benedict's part. I see no way around it.

I am sorry if that opinion upsets you.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:57 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
I'd agree and would argue that such reasoning also applies to conversations regarding our President.
...and his alleged pedophile father, Frank Marshall Davis.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:58 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
I do not that this is an accurate statement...you seem to think that the leadership of the RCC church should get a free pass. That is well within your right of opinion. I, and many others, happen to disagree.

Did Benedict, prior to being named Pope, have any knowledge about specific instances of child molestation in the church? I think it has been shown that he did. Did Benedict report said abuse to the proper authorities? No. To me, that is a heinous act on Benedict's part. I see no way around it.

I am sorry if that opinion upsets you.
No, your opinion doesn't upset me. Your apparent inability to understand my criticism and your crude expression of your opinion are troubling though.

I doubt that Benedict did anything that I would consider heinous, but I'm willing to admit that I don't know the whole story so my mind remains open.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:08 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
I'd agree and would argue that such reasoning also applies to conversations regarding our President.
And it should go without saying that the president's man toy is not underage, so pedophilia really isn't the issue with him. Pedophilia is only an issue in regard to the president's alleged pedophile father, Frank Marshall Davis.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:12 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, your opinion doesn't upset me. Your apparent inability to understand my criticism and your crude expression of your opinion are troubling though.

I doubt that Benedict did anything that I would consider heinous, but I'm willing to admit that I don't know the whole story so my mind remains open.
I understand your criticism just fine. You think I am a RCC basher because I am critical of the church and its leadership. That is your right. I think I have articulated and shown that I find any organization that conducts itself in such a way to propagate the molesting of children to be heinous.

I do not criticize the RCC because they are Catholic. I criticize the leadership because they knew they had a problem, and they covered it up. I criticize because they failed to notify the authorities of cases of child molestation... and then, on top of that, those who were guilty of molesting children were moved to new parishes and allowed to commit those crimes again. The church is now facing the consequences of its cover ups, and it is costing them in both financial terms, and in terms of the church's reputation.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:15 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
I understand your criticism just fine. You think I am a RCC basher because I am critical of the church and its leadership. That is your right. I think I have articulated and shown that I find any organization that conducts itself in such a way to propagate the molesting of children to be heinous.

I do not criticize the RCC because they are Catholic. I criticize the leadership because they knew they had a problem, and they covered it up. I criticize because they failed to notify the authorities of cases of child molestation... and then, on top of that, those who were guilty of molesting children were moved to new parishes and allowed to commit those crimes again. The church is now facing the consequences of its cover ups, and it is costing them in both financial terms, and in terms of the church's reputation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the RCC is bad.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:19 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the RCC is bad.
Not saying they are bad...but they are not all good either. It can be argued that the RCC has not done enough to remove the bad from its ranks.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:57 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Great point on church organization. The large bureaucracy of the RCC did not help, but that is not an excuse for not addressing the situation.
The bureaucracy IS the problem. Its funny how when things suit her worldview shes a totally bureaucratic control from another country fan. When its government its best left to the states / local level, when its her religion it can't be big enough or more wasteful.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:28 PM   #130
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Here's an interesting article about the alleged links between homosexuality and child molestation:

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo...lestation.html

This is an excerpt dealing with the research cited in an article written by Timothy J. Daily of the Family Research Council:


Freund et al. (1989). Heterosexuality, homosexuality, and erotic age preference. Journal of Sex Research, 26, 107-117.

This article is discussed above in the "Other Approaches" section. As the FRC concedes, it contradicts their argument. The abstract summarizes the authors' conclusion: "Findings indicate that homosexual males who preferred mature partners responded no more to male children than heterosexual males who preferred mature partners responded to female children."


Silverthorne & Quinsey. (2000). Sexual partner age preferences of homosexual and heterosexual men and women. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 29, 67-76.

The FRC cites this study to challenge the Freund et al. data (see the previous paper above). However, the methodologies were quite different. Freund and his colleagues used a sample that included sex offenders and they assessed sexual arousal with a physiological measure similar to that described below for the 1988 Marshall et al. study. Silverthorne and Quinsey used a sample of community volunteers who were asked to view pictures of human faces and use a 7-point scale to rate their sexual attractiveness. The apparent ages of the people portrayed in the pictures was originally estimated by Dr. Silverthorne to range from 15 to 50. However, a group of independent raters perceived the male faces to range in age from 18 to 58, and the female faces to range from 19 to 60.

The article doesn't report the data in great detail (e.g., average ratings are depicted only in a graphic; the actual numbers aren't reported) and the authors provide contradictory information about the rating scale (they describe it as a 7-point scale but also say it ranged from 0 to 7, which constitutes an 8-point scale). In either case, it appears that none of the pictures was rated as "very sexually attractive" (a rating of 7). Rather, the highest average ratings were approximately 5.

On average, gay men rated the 18-year old male faces the most attractive (average rating = about 5), with attractiveness ratings declining steadily for older faces. They rated the 58-year old male faces 2, on average. By contrast, heterosexual men rated the 25-year old female faces the most attractive (about 5), with the 18- and 28-year old female faces rated lower (between 2 and 3) and the 60-year old female faces rated the least attractive (about 1).

A serious problem with this study is that the researchers didn't control for the possibility that some of the faces pictured in the photos might simply have been more or less physically attractive than the others, independent of their age or gender. The researchers explicitly acknowledged this shortcoming, speculating that the women's faces in the 25-year old group might have been more attractive than women's faces in the other age groups. But they didn't address the possibility that the attractiveness of the male and female faces may not have been comparable.

This issue could have been addressed in various ways. For example, prior to collecting data, the researchers could have started with a large number of photographs and asked a group of independent raters to evaluate the general physical attractiveness of the face in each photo; these ratings could have been used to select photos for the experiment that were equivalent in attractiveness. Getting independent ratings of experimental stimuli in this way is a common procedure in social psychological research.

Thus, even if one accepts the questionable assumption that this study is relevant, it doesn't support the FRC's contention that gay men are more likely than heterosexual men to be child molesters for several reasons:
the researchers failed to control for the varying attractiveness of the different photos;
all of the faces portrayed in the photos were perceived to be at least 18; and
the study merely assessed judgments of sexual attractiveness rather than the research participants' sexual arousal.


Blanchard et al. (2000). Fraternal birth order and sexual orientation in pedophiles. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 29, 463-478.

This study categorized convicted sex offenders according to whether they molested or reported sexual attraction to boys only, girls only, or both boys and girls. These groups were labeled, respectively, homosexual pedophiles, heterosexual pedophiles, and bisexual pedophiles. This classification referred to their attractions to children. Adult sexual orientation (or even whether the men had an adult sexual orientation) wasn't assessed.


Elliott et al. (1995). Child sexual abuse prevention: What offenders tell us. Child Abuse & Neglect, 19, 579-594.

In this study, child sex offenders were interviewed. Their sexual orientation (gay, heterosexual, bisexual) wasn't assessed. The authors drew from their findings to suggest strategies for how parents and children can prevent sexual victimization. It is noteworthy that none of those strategies involved avoiding gay men.


Jenny et al. (1994). Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics, 94, 41-44.

This study, described above in the section on "Other Approaches," contradicts the FRC's argument. The FRC faults the study because the researchers didn't directly interview perpetrators but instead relied on the victims' medical charts for information about the offender's sexual orientation. However, other studies cited favorably by the FRC (and summarized in this section) similarly relied on chart data (Erickson et al., 1988) or did not directly assess the sexual orientation of perpetrators (Blanchard et al. 2000; Elliott et al. 1995; Marshall et al., 1988). Thus, the FRC apparently considers this method a weakness only when it leads to results they dislike.


Marshall et al. (1988). Sexual offenders against male children: Sexual preference. Behaviour Research and Therapy, 26, 383-391.

In this study, the researchers compared 21 men who had sexually molested a male under 16 years (and at least 5 years younger than themselves) to 18 unemployed men who were not known to have molested a child. Over a series of sessions, each man watched color slides of nude males and females of various ages and listened to audiotaped descriptions of both coercive and consensual sexual interactions between a man and a boy. During the sessions, each man sat in a private booth, where he was instructed to lower his trousers and underwear and attach a rubber tube to his penis. The tube detected any changes in penis circumference, with increases interpreted as indicating sexual arousal.

The FRC cites this study as showing that "a homosexual and a heterosexual subgroup can be delineated among these offenders." This is true but hardly relevant to their claims.

The researchers categorized 7 offenders who were more aroused overall by the male nudes than the female nudes as the homosexual subgroup. They categorized 14 offenders who were more aroused overall by the female nudes as the heterosexual subgroup. The offenders were not asked their sexual orientation (gay, straight, bisexual) and the paper does not report any information about the nature of the offenders' adult sexual relationships, or even if they had any such relationships.


Bickley & Beech. (2001). Classifying child abusers: Its relevance to theory and clinical practice. International Journal Of Offender Therapy And Comparative Criminology, 45, 51-69.

This is a literature review and theoretical paper that discusses the strengths and weaknesses of various systems for classifying child molesters. In citing this study, the FRC says it:

refers to homosexual pedophiles as a "distinct group." The victims of homosexual pedophiles "were more likely to be strangers, that they were more likely to have engaged in paraphiliac behavior separate from that involved in the offence, and that they were more likely to have past convictions for sexual offences.... Other studies [showed a] greater risk of reoffending than those who had offended against girls" and that the "recidivism rate for male-victim offenders is approximately twice that for female-victim offenders."

In reality, however, the paper was summarizing the findings of other studies, not reporting new data. In the passage excerpted by the FRC, the authors were discussing published papers that used a classification system focusing entirely on the sex of victims (not whether the perpetrator is straight or gay). Here is the complete text (the passages that FRC omitted are highlighted):

"Grubin and Kennedy (1991) reported that when dividing sex offenders based simply on the sex of their victims, offenders against boys stood out as a distinct group. They noted that their victims were more likely to be strangers, that they were more likely to have engaged in paraphiliac behavior separate from that involved in the offence, and they were more likely to have past convictions for sexual offences. Other studies have employed the sex-of-victim approach in the prediction of future risk, with offenders who have sexually abused boys or both boys and girls reported as having more victims and being at greater risk of reoffending than those who had offended against girls only [bibliographic references omitted]. In the nondiagnostic remarks, DSM-IV (APA, 1994) claims that the recidivism rate for male-victim offenders is approximately twice that for female-victim offenders, and although not demonstrating such a marked difference, Furby,Weinrott, and Blackshaw (1989), in an extensive review of recidivism rates, found that reoffending was higher for male victim offenders. [¶] However, the sex-of-victim distinction has not been consistently found, and contrasting findings have been reported in studies that have demonstrated no differences in recidivism rates between the groups [bibliographic references omitted]. Furthermore, Abel, Becker, Murphy, and Flanagan (1981) found that those child molesters who offended against girls reported more than twice as many victims as those who had offended against boys, a finding contrary to the hypothesized outcome." (p. 56)


Jay & Young. (1977). The gay report: Lesbians and gay men speak out about sexual experiences and lifestyles. New York: Summit.

This book, published nearly 30 years ago by a team of writer-activists, is not a scientific study. The authors' survey methodology is not reported in detail and, because it was a journalistic work, the survey was never subjected to scientific peer review.


Erickson et al. (1988). Behavior patterns of child molesters. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 17, 77-86.

This study was based on a retrospective review of the medical records of male sex offenders admitted to the Minnesota Security Hospital between 1975 and 1984. Apparently, 70% of the men abused girls, 26% abused boys, and 4% abused children of both sexes. (The paper is unclear in that it doesn't explain how perpetrators with multiple victims were counted.) The paper asserts in passing that "Eighty-six percent of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual" (p. 83). However, no details are provided about how this information was ascertained, making it difficult to interpret. Nor did the authors report the number of homosexual versus bisexual offenders, a distinction that the Groth and Birnbaum study (described above) indicates is relevant.



In summary, the scientific sources cited by the FRC report do not support their argument. Most of the studies they referenced did not even assess the sexual orientation of abusers. Two studies explicitly concluded that sexual orientation and child molestation are unrelated. Notably, the FRC failed to cite the 1978 study by Groth and Birnbaum, which also contradicted their argument. Only one study (Erickson et al., 1988) might be interpreted as supporting the FRC argument, and it failed to detail its measurement procedures and did not differentiate bisexual from homosexual offenders.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:35 PM   #131
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Here's a "fact sheet" from Save-Our-Kids.com contradicting so called "myths" about child molesters and offering contradicting statements. I did not see a link to the data they used to create this page so take it with a grain of salt:



Child Molester - Myths & Realities

Myth 1: The child molester is a dirty old man.
Truth - Over 70% of offenders are under the age of 35:
74% have one or more prior convictions
and of these 80% were under 30 years of age.

Myth 2: The child molester is a stranger.
Truth - Over 70% of the molesters knew the children at least casually;
14% are members of the child’s immediate family.

Myth 3: The child molester is retarded.
Truth - No differences between convicted child molesters
intellectual abilities and that of the general public.

Myth 4: The child molester is an alcoholic or drug addict.
Truth - Drug use is usually non-existent with child molesters
except to break down child inhibitions.

Myth 5: The child molester is a sexually frustrated person.
Truth - 50% of child molesters are married.
Sexuality is not the only issue in pedophilia but identification
expression problems and the need for power and control
which usually is existent with adult relationships.

Myth 6: The child molester is insane.
Truth - 95% are not psychotic.

Myth 7: The child molester over time will progress to increasingly violent acts.
Truth - Only about 18% of child molesters show an increase in force used.
9% committed violent sexual assaults- 1% resulting in death.

Myth 8: Children are at greater risk of sexual victimization from homosexuals
than from heterosexuals adults.
Truth - 51% of men selected female children.
21% selected both. Females victimized 2-1.
83% of child molesters are heterosexual.

Myth 9: Child molesters work in groups.
Truth - 95% of child molesters act alone.

Myth 10: Child molesters prefer very young children.
Truth - 14% select children 5 years or younger.
46% select children between 6-11.
33% select young adolescents between 12-15.
7% chose various ages.

Myth 11: Child molesters perform various non-specific sex acts on victims.
Truth - Child molesters are consistent and specific with sexual acts.
39% confine activity to foreplay act with no penetration.
31% sexually penetrate victims. (orally, anally, vaginally)

Myth 12: Child molesters commit other crimes.
Truth - Approximately 50% of convicted child molesters have no other criminal record.

Child molester (Basic Profile)

Relatively young heterosexual man - not insane - no retardation.
Seeks to control child rather than injure.
Poses more psychological risk than physical risk to the child.
Highly repetitive behavior to the point of compulsion.


http://www.save-our-kids.com/myths.html
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:49 PM   #132
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...ckmail-inquiry


Gay Vatican network blamed for pope's resignation

A potentially explosive report has linked the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI to the discovery of a network of gay prelates in the Vatican, some of whom – the report said – were being blackmailed by outsiders.

The pope's spokesman declined to confirm or deny the report, which was carried by the Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica.

The paper said the pope had taken the decision on 17 December that he was going to resign – the day he received a dossier compiled by three cardinals delegated to look into the so-called "Vatileaks" affair.

Last May Pope Benedict's butler, Paolo Gabriele, was arrested and charged with having stolen and leaked papal correspondence that depicted the Vatican as a seething hotbed of intrigue and infighting.

According to La Repubblica, the dossier comprising "two volumes of almost 300 pages – bound in red" had been consigned to a safe in the papal apartments and would be delivered to the pope's successor upon his election.

The newspaper said the cardinals described a number of factions, including one whose members were "united by sexual orientation".

In an apparent quotation from the report, La Repubblica said some Vatican officials had been subject to "external influence" from laymen with whom they had links of a "worldly nature". The paper said this was a clear reference to blackmail.

It quoted a source "very close to those who wrote [the cardinal's report]" as saying: "Everything revolves around the non-observance of the sixth and seventh commandments."

The seventh enjoins against theft. The sixth forbids adultery, but is linked in Catholic doctrine to the proscribing of homosexual acts.

La Repubblica said the cardinals' report identified a series of meeting places in and around Rome. They included a villa outside the Italian capital, a sauna in a Rome suburb, a beauty parlour in the centre, and a former university residence that was in use by a provincial Italian archbishop.

Father Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said: "Neither the cardinals' commission nor I will make comments to confirm or deny the things that are said about this matter. Let each one assume his or her own responsibilities. We shall not be following up on the observations that are made about this."

He added that interpretations of the report were creating "a tension that is the opposite of what the pope and the church want" in the approach to the conclave of cardinals that will elect Benedict's successor. Another Italian daily, Corriere della Sera, alluded to the dossier soon after the pope announced his resignation on 11 February, describing its contents as "disturbing".

The three-man commission of inquiry into the Vatileaks affair was headed by a Spanish cardinal, Julián Herranz. He was assisted by Cardinal Salvatore De Giorgi, a former archbishop of Palermo, and the Slovak cardinal Jozef Tomko, who once headed the Vatican's department for missionaries.

Pope Benedict has said he will stand down at the end of this month; the first pope to resign voluntarily since Celestine V more than seven centuries ago. Since announcing his departure he has twice apparently referred to machinations inside the Vatican, saying that divisions "mar the face of the church", and warned against "the temptations of power".

La Repubblica's report was the latest in a string of claims that a gay network exists in the Vatican. In 2007 a senior official was suspended from the congregation, or department, for the priesthood, after he was filmed in a "sting" organised by an Italian television programme while apparently making sexual overtures to a younger man.

In 2010 a chorister was dismissed for allegedly procuring male prostitutes for a papal gentleman-in-waiting. A few months later a weekly news magazine used hidden cameras to record priests visiting gay clubs and bars and having sex.

The Vatican does not condemn homosexuals. But it teaches that gay sex is "intrinsically disordered". Pope Benedict has barred sexually active gay men from studying for the priesthood.
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As long as Jesus Christ was the president of the US and approved of it Yes.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:52 PM   #133
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Child molester (Basic Profile)

Relatively young heterosexual man - not insane - no retardation.
Seeks to control child rather than injure.
Poses more psychological risk than physical risk to the child.
Highly repetitive behavior to the point of compulsion.


http://www.save-our-kids.com/myths.html

So is my son more likely to be molested by a gay man or a straight man?
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:06 PM   #134
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So is my son more likely to be molested by a gay man or a straight man?
That first article seems to show the child molesters tend to be attracted to age regardless of the gender of the victim.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:42 PM   #135
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So is my son more likely to be molested by a gay man or a straight man?
I would think that seemingly "straight" men who are pedophiles vastly outnumber seemingly "gay" men who are pedophiles. There are a lot more straight men in this world than there are gay men.
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