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Old 02-22-2013, 10:36 AM  
Molitoth Molitoth is online now
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The Exhaustion of the American Teacher

Ran across this article making it's way around facebook.
I thought it was very interesting, especially considering my wife is an elementary teacher. This really hits the nail on the head.
What are your thoughts?

I don't venture into the DC forum too often, sorry if repost.

And the article won't let me Copy/Paste.

http://theeducatorsroom.com/2012/09/...erican-teacher
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:47 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Your an uneducated fool.
You're
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:55 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The median expected salary for a typical Teacher Kindergarten in the United States is $52,694.

It's as high as $71,259 in some areas.

http://www1.salary.com/Teacher-Kindergarten-Salary.html
And in the 1980s, your friend was making $75K teaching kindergarten? This is just one more example why no one takes you seriously.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:09 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
My wife is a teacher. Most days she is out the door by 6AM and doesn't return until 5PM. That is if there isn't a meeting after class be it a school, grade level, or just a teaming session. On those days I typically see her come home by 7-7:30pm. When she gets home she is either grading papers or working on lesson plans for about an hour or two... I often help her grade. This doesn't include the time she sets aside to call parents and talk to them about their spoiled crotch fruit.

She typically will put in 6 hours on Saturdays. That is when she will typically meet with her student teach her to plan the week as well as teach the student teacher how to be an effective educator (no... she doesn't get paid extra to babysit a n00b teacher). Sundays she reserves for herself.

On a typical work week she is easily putting in 65-70 hours.

As for her 3 month vacation in summer. 2 of those months are taken up with personal development meetings put on by the district or taking additional college classes offered by the district to make her a better teacher. Of the remaining 4 weeks, 2 of them are spent in the classroom getting her room ready for the next school year and meeting with the teachers from the grade level below in order to become aquainted with her new students. The other 2 weeks... she actually takes for herself.

She has been teaching for 15 years and is 12 credit hours away from a Doctorate. She makes substantially less than that 70k number floating around earlier in the thread.
You can be supportive of your spouse and her chosen profession without trying to BS us.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:12 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by chiefforlife View Post
Thank You for the quality response. The couple teachers I know personally, dont work anywhere near those kinds of hours but I wasnt sure if they were "the norm" or just slackers.
He's dramatically overstating the work his wife does. Don't fall for every Hope and Change song and dance that comes your way.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:14 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You can be supportive of your spouse and her chosen profession without trying to BS us.
In all honesty, I know teachers who put in the kind of hours he's describing. They're not the norm, but there are more than a few who do. I also know teachers who put in substantially less time than that being describe (myself included).

I usually arrive at school at 7:30 and leave at 4:30. I usually put in about 1 hour a night at home. The weekends might consist of 2 hours of planning, provided I haven't taken up a major paper (usually take up 6 a semester). If I have, then I probably have 14 or so hours of grading on the weekend.

Of course, I only teach 3 classes right now (I've taken on a partial administrative duty) with a total of 65 students throughout the day. Only having a single prep (I only teach one course) and far smaller numbers than I've had in the past seriously reduces the amount of planning and grading I must do. On the other hand, I do spend a lot of time doing administrative crap during the school day when I could possibly be grading or planning.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:29 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by NewChief View Post
In all honesty, I know teachers who put in the kind of hours he's describing. They're not the norm, but there are more than a few who do. I also know teachers who put in substantially less time than that being describe (myself included).

I usually arrive at school at 7:30 and leave at 4:30. I usually put in about 1 hour a night at home. The weekends might consist of 2 hours of planning, provided I haven't taken up a major paper (usually take up 6 a semester). If I have, then I probably have 14 or so hours of grading on the weekend.

Of course, I only teach 3 classes right now (I've taken on a partial administrative duty) with a total of 65 students throughout the day. Only having a single prep (I only teach one course) and far smaller numbers than I've had in the past seriously reduces the amount of planning and grading I must do. On the other hand, I do spend a lot of time doing administrative crap during the school day when I could possibly be grading or planning.
I'm not saying that it doesn't ever happen, but when someone tells me that their spouse's "typical" workweek as a teacher is easily 65-70 hours, I'm calling

If I'm wrong about Mrs. pr_capone, then she's so atypical of the profession that she shouldn't be used as an example.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:40 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not saying that it doesn't ever happen, but when someone tells me that their spouse's "typical" workweek as a teacher is easily 65-70 hours, I'm calling

If I'm wrong about Mrs. pr_capone, then she's so atypical of the profession that she shouldn't be used as an example.
The people like he describes (you can drive by the school on a Saturday or Sunday and see their car parked out front) are people for whom teaching is their life.

Many of them don't have kids of their own, so the students become their kids. They may not have much of a social life, so the school is their social life. Teaching becomes much more than a job for those people, it becomes their lives. I know teachers (many of them with kids who have left home or have family's of their own now or maybe without kids) who do some kind of school related activity nearly every night, whether it's a ball game, club meeting, or fund raising activity. It's kind of crazy (to me).
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:54 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not saying that it doesn't ever happen, but when someone tells me that their spouse's "typical" workweek as a teacher is easily 65-70 hours, I'm calling

If I'm wrong about Mrs. pr_capone, then she's so atypical of the profession that she shouldn't be used as an example.
More typical is Buc's friend who made $75K as a K-teacher in the 1980s.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:00 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
More typical is Buc's friend who made $75K as a K-teacher in the 1980s.
BEP has plenty of people to call her out on things like that. pr_capone's story was being uncritically embraced.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:34 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not saying that it doesn't ever happen, but when someone tells me that their spouse's "typical" workweek as a teacher is easily 65-70 hours, I'm calling

If I'm wrong about Mrs. pr_capone, then she's so atypical of the profession that she shouldn't be used as an example.
You are wrong, it is the exception when a teacher doesn't spend long hours outside of the school day. I mean common sense would tell you that even if you observed nothing. Do you really think that classroom time is all that counts?

Who do you think plans those lessons, grades those assignments? Do sales reps only work when they are trying to close a deal? Do investment bankers hours only count when they are on the floor trading? Your dismissal of teachers who work long hours in preparation and in other duties is convenient, but it isn't reality. At least for the vast majority who are competent and care about their profession.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:00 PM   #101
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I didn't say it was a friend. It was an in-law. Family. I have another family friend who made about about the same or more but in that range, in the 1990s teaching hi-school. Taught at least 25 years. Pr Capone's chart verfied that claim.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:01 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by VAChief View Post
You are wrong, it is the exception when a teacher doesn't spend long hours outside of the school day. I mean common sense would tell you that even if you observed nothing. Do you really think that classroom time is all that counts?

Who do you think plans those lessons, grades those assignments? Do sales reps only work when they are trying to close a deal? Do investment bankers hours only count when they are on the floor trading? Your dismissal of teachers who work long hours in preparation and in other duties is convenient, but it isn't reality. At least for the vast majority who are competent and care about their profession.
No, I'm not wrong. I'm not saying teachers work 7 hour days and get summers off. Obviously our reading teachers are failing us.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:02 PM   #103
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$71,259 is not a lot of money if you're talking about a highly educated, experienced teacher in a metro area.
That was considered a lot back in the 80's and the 90's—even in Boston. At least to some of us who lived in Boston. It was at least considered not bad money and much better than thought for a teacher.

Some people are making a case that teachers are poorly paid. Now it's overworked, tired and suffering. I understand pay will be relative to an area, but if it's cheaper to live there then it balances out with the lower salary.

It's up toward $16,000 per student now. It was about $6,000 per student back then. It keeps going up. Where does the money go?

Quote:
You can't compare a Boston salary apples to apples with a Kansas City salary.
I didn't compare them to anyone. So don't lecture me, Buster! I just said that's what two made in a certain metro area in the east. Can anyone read around here?
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:05 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You can be supportive of your spouse and her chosen profession without trying to BS us.
Ive been around cp for over 6 years and have never been known to overstate truth to make a point. The schedule I gave is what my wife works with no exaggeration.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:09 PM   #105
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BEP has plenty of people to call her out on things like that. pr_capone's story was being uncritically embraced.
Yeah, but they're usually wrong or twist words around. La Literatura is good for the latter.
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