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Old 03-25-2013, 05:23 PM  
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DHS To Buy 360,000 More Rounds of Hollow Point Ammunition

Arms build-up continues as Congress demands answers

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
March 25, 2013

While the Department of Homeland Security continues to ignore members of Congress demanding to know why the federal agency is engaged in an apparent arms build-up, the DHS has just announced it plans to purchase another 360,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition to add to the roughly 2 billion bullets already bought over the past year.

A solicitation on the Federal Business Opportunities website details the DHS’ plan to purchase 360,000 rounds of “Commercial leaded training ammo (CLTA) Pistol .40 caliber 165 grain, jacketed hollow point.” The bullets are to be delivered to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico, the same destination for 240,000 hollow point rounds which were purchased only last month.

Although the DHS has attempted to explain its mammoth purchase of ammunition by claiming the bullets are being acquired in bulk to save money and that they are for training purposes only, this has been disputed by reputable voices such as former Marine Richard Mason, who told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania earlier this month, “We never trained with hollow points, we didn’t even see hollow points my entire four and a half years in the Marine Corps.”

Hollow point bullets are almost twice as expensive as full metal jackets, therefore the DHS’ explanation that it is buying huge quantities in bulk to “save money” doesn’t make sense.

As we reported yesterday, concerns about the apparent arms build-up are growing, with retired United States Army Captain Terry M. Hestilow sending a letter to Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) warning that the ammo purchases represent “a bold threat of war by that agency (DHS), and the Obama administration, against the citizens of the United States of America.”

Questions from members of Congress about why the federal agency is buying up ammo, exacerbating shortages across the country, have been met with silence.

- Kansas Congressman Timothy Huelscamp said last week that threats should be made to withdraw funding from the DHS if it didn’t explain why it was purchasing so many bullets, remarking, “They have no answer for that question. They refuse to answer to answer that.”

- Earlier this month, New Jersey Congressman Leonard Lance said, “Congress has a responsibility to ask Secretary Napolitano as to exactly why these purchases have occurred,” signaling his intention to get answers.

- Californian Congressman Doug LaMalfa and 14 of his House colleagues have written a letter to the Department of Homeland Security asking if the purchases are, “being conducted in a manner that strategically denies the American people access to ammunition.”

Although members of Congress are treating the matter with the seriousness it deserves, the mainstream and leftist media have attempted to ridicule the entire issue as a conspiracy theory, with Atlantic Wire even suggesting that the story had its origins in a debunked email, a report that completely failed to even mention the admitted fact that the DHS had purchased around 2 billion bullets.

While the DHS continues to purchase bullets in large quantities, police departments have been forced to barter amongst each other in a desperate scramble to meet their ammo needs.

*********************

Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Infowars.com and Prison Planet.com. He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a host for Infowars Nightly News.


This article was posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 at 10:08 am

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-buy-3...nt-ammunition/
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:23 AM   #76
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Speaking for myself I have on rare occasions shot hollow points while target shooting. That said in total it adds up to a handful of rounds. Anyone thinking these are for target practice are gullible. If they are indeed for that purpose than it is another case of our government wasting money in a silly fashion~
So, you and a few others on here attest to using hollow points sometimes for practice. And you guys, as far as I know, are hunters, recreational shooters, and/or have guns for self defense. Some have said gun instructors recommend practicing with what you actually normally use, at least sometimes.

Yet even as you admit to sometimes using them, you feel comfortable stating, without a doubt, that there is NO WAY that professional federal law enforcement would use the same ammo for practice that they use in the field. AND--therefore, it is more likely that these bulk purchases are being used for a planned killing of the general population. Seriously, you guys need mental help.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:36 AM   #77
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So, you and a few others on here attest to using hollow points sometimes for practice. And you guys, as far as I know, are hunters, recreational shooters, and/or have guns for self defense. Some have said gun instructors recommend practicing with what you actually normally use, at least sometimes.

Yet even as you admit to sometimes using them, you feel comfortable stating, without a doubt, that there is NO WAY that professional federal law enforcement would use the same ammo for practice that they use in the field. AND--therefore, it is more likely that these bulk purchases are being used for a planned killing of the general population. Seriously, you guys need mental help.
Actually, we need body armor.

You, on the other hand, need knee pads.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:11 PM   #78
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What other purpose in your mind would there be?



This thought doesn't surprise or shock you does it?
The first answer is to be used for the purpose the round is designed for plain and simple.
The 2nd answer is no.
There are two options here IMO
1. They are stacking up an inventory for the event a confrontation requires hollow point rounds.
2. If they were ordered strictly for target practice it is pretty strange and expensive target practice ammunition~
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:27 PM   #79
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:37 PM   #80
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So when should I expect DHS to start shooting at me? I probably want to call in sick to work that day.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:50 PM   #81
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So when should I expect DHS to start shooting at me? I probably want to call in sick to work that day.
Don't worry, you will be awakened in the middle of the night by the tanks rumbling through your streets. They want your interior decorations all to themselves.
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:08 PM   #82
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Don't worry, you will be awakened in the middle of the night by the tanks rumbling through your streets. They want your interior decorations all to themselves.
Not calling you out or even trying to suggest you feel the same because I have no idea where you are on this issue or gun ownership in general. From what I recall from my interaction with you I think you are level headed and do not fall into either the right or the left camp.

Responding strictly to the subject to the broader issue of governments and guns possessed by the citizens. I find it somewhat perplexing that many assume the large purchases made by the government should warrant no questions what so ever. Strangely Many people automatically question the reasons for a private citizen owning a rifle using scary descriptions like "assault rifle" showing the same ignorance of guns that many anti gun people have. I am not predicting any apocalypse but I do not trust our government.

The ammunition purchases made recently for non military activity should cause some pause even in the slowest mind. Just as an example I use Hornaday critical defense FTX for home defense in my 40. Here is the description for this ammunition:
Unaffected by thick and heavy clothing, including denim and leather.
FTX bullet delivers superior controlled expansion and large, deep wound cavities over a wide range of velocities.
Clean burning and stable propellants reduce recoil in lightweight handguns, and perform consistently in all temperatures.
Minimal muzzle flash protects night vision.
Feeds reliably in pistols.
Shiny silver nickel plating prevents corrosion, and is easily visible in low light situations.
Bullets are cannelured and crimped to avoid bullet setback.
Bullets are custom designed for individual loads.
The most effective, consistent, and reliable self-defense ammunition available today!

I should also identify what I run through paper targets with this weapon:
40 Smith and Wesson 165 grain centerfire cartridges and recently reloaded 155 grain lead rounds. I have shot enough rounds to have a very good idea the variance between these different rounds. Guess what measuring single squeeze and 6 round bursts at 20 yards was not worthy of measurement. I was interested how the 155 grain round faired and honestly cannot validate the claims of accuracy because my groups were too similar with all ammunition mentioned. In closing NOBODY buys hollow point rounds for any other reason other than stop and drop. If they bought them for target practice they need to have one aimed at them~
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:13 PM   #83
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In closing NOBODY buys hollow point rounds for any other reason other than stop and drop. If theY bought them for target practice they need to have one aimed at them~
HEY! I found someone who admits to sometimes using hollow points for target shooting. But, I'm sure he's the only one on earth and that professional federal law enforcement would never do such a thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RNR View Post
Speaking for myself I have on rare occasions shot hollow points while target shooting.

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Old 03-26-2013, 04:28 PM   #84
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HEY! I found someone who admits to sometimes using hollow points for target shooting. But, I'm sure he's the only one on earth and that professional federal law enforcement would never do such a thing.




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Old 03-26-2013, 04:32 PM   #85
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:38 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
Not calling you out or even trying to suggest you feel the same because I have no idea where you are on this issue or gun ownership in general. From what I recall from my interaction with you I think you are level headed and do not fall into either the right or the left camp.

Responding strictly to the subject to the broader issue of governments and guns possessed by the citizens. I find it somewhat perplexing that many assume the large purchases made by the government should warrant no questions what so ever. Strangely Many people automatically question the reasons for a private citizen owning a rifle using scary descriptions like "assault rifle" showing the same ignorance of guns that many anti gun people have. I am not predicting any apocalypse but I do not trust our government.

The ammunition purchases made recently for non military activity should cause some pause even in the slowest mind. Just as an example I use Hornaday critical defense FTX for home defense in my 40. Here is the description for this ammunition:
Unaffected by thick and heavy clothing, including denim and leather.
FTX bullet delivers superior controlled expansion and large, deep wound cavities over a wide range of velocities.
Clean burning and stable propellants reduce recoil in lightweight handguns, and perform consistently in all temperatures.
Minimal muzzle flash protects night vision.
Feeds reliably in pistols.
Shiny silver nickel plating prevents corrosion, and is easily visible in low light situations.
Bullets are cannelured and crimped to avoid bullet setback.
Bullets are custom designed for individual loads.
The most effective, consistent, and reliable self-defense ammunition available today!

I should also identify what I run through paper targets with this weapon:
40 Smith and Wesson 165 grain centerfire cartridges and recently reloaded 155 grain lead rounds. I have shot enough rounds to have a very good idea the variance between these different rounds. Guess what measuring single squeeze and 6 round bursts at 20 yards was not worthy of measurement. I was interested how the 155 grain round faired and honestly cannot validate the claims of accuracy because my groups were too similar with all ammunition mentioned. In closing NOBODY buys hollow point rounds for any other reason other than stop and drop. If they bought them for target practice they need to have one aimed at them~
It raises questions to me such as why spend so much money on practice rounds, why now with the big purchases, what is the urgency, etc. But the jump that is being made by some that they are planning to take over the citizens simply does not make sense. There is zero benefit to this that I can think of. It is really hard to have a legitimate discussion about the uses and possible reasons for these large purchases when people are completely convinced that they are actually in danger of having government agents raid their homes and cities. Often times here, reason is not met with reasonable responses. Although this thread has been pretty calm and it actually has some discussion. I have enjoyed reading some much of this thread.

I question what they will really use them for but I also can see scenarios that that make sense for this purchase that do not equate to a government takeover. Border protection, a supply that lasts a long time, is this really an inordinate amount to purchase, training (even if on rare occasion).

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Speaking of government takeovers, we have extraordinary claims but not the evidence. When speaking of the extremes sides here, they are both equally misled and they bring in their prior baggage which form their opinions.

The paranoid government is coming guy is equally as crazy as the guy that doesn't even raise an eyebrow to the situation. Different sides of the same coin.
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:38 PM   #87
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Cosmo is far and away the most annoying, smug, i've got all the answers just ask me, far left ****tard in DC.
At times I enjoy slapping this simpleton around. That said he/her/it/ is much like a child when you are trying to have an adult conversation it can get irritating~
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:49 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
It raises questions to me such as why spend so much money on practice rounds, why now with the big purchases, what is the urgency, etc. But the jump that is being made by some that they are planning to take over the citizens simply does not make sense. There is zero benefit to this that I can think of. It is really hard to have a legitimate discussion about the uses and possible reasons for these large purchases when people are completely convinced that they are actually in danger of having government agents raid their homes and cities. Often times here, reason is not met with reasonable responses. Although this thread has been pretty calm and it actually has some discussion. I have enjoyed reading some much of this thread.

I question what they will really use them for but I also can see scenarios that that make sense for this purchase that do not equate to a government takeover. Border protection, a supply that lasts a long time, is this really an inordinate amount to purchase, training (even if on rare occasion).

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Speaking of government takeovers, we have extraordinary claims but not the evidence. When speaking of the extremes sides here, they are both equally misled and they bring in their prior baggage which form their opinions.

The paranoid government is coming guy is equally as crazy as the guy that doesn't even raise an eyebrow to the situation. Different sides of the same coin.
This is why I took the time to reply to you with a detailed response. Yes extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence with this I agree. I have used this argument in religious debates several times. It should be noted that I made no extraordinary claims. I just noted simple facts and asked that simple evaluation should be made~
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:57 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
It raises questions to me such as why spend so much money on practice rounds, why now with the big purchases, what is the urgency, etc. But the jump that is being made by some that they are planning to take over the citizens simply does not make sense. There is zero benefit to this that I can think of. It is really hard to have a legitimate discussion about the uses and possible reasons for these large purchases when people are completely convinced that they are actually in danger of having government agents raid their homes and cities. Often times here, reason is not met with reasonable responses. Although this thread has been pretty calm and it actually has some discussion. I have enjoyed reading some much of this thread.

I question what they will really use them for but I also can see scenarios that that make sense for this purchase that do not equate to a government takeover. Border protection, a supply that lasts a long time, is this really an inordinate amount to purchase, training (even if on rare occasion).

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Speaking of government takeovers, we have extraordinary claims but not the evidence. When speaking of the extremes sides here, they are both equally misled and they bring in their prior baggage which form their opinions.

The paranoid government is coming guy is equally as crazy as the guy that doesn't even raise an eyebrow to the situation. Different sides of the same coin.
But when you look at this with some persepective the questions being asked are legit. In Iraq and Afghanistan our militar expended roughyl 5-6 million rounds of ammo a year. Ok, so let's say the estimates for DHS are high and let's say they have only 1 billion rounds and not the reported 1.6 billion. That is still enough to wage war for 12+ years.

Now keep in mind this is "Homeland Security", not the military. The military is placed into combat where expending rounds of ammunition is a common occurence. DHS is not in a combat zone but as of late they have been arming themselves as if they are.

It raises all kinds of questions that I think have not been sufficiently answered.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:04 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
It raises questions to me such as why spend so much money on practice rounds, why now with the big purchases, what is the urgency, etc. But the jump that is being made by some that they are planning to take over the citizens simply does not make sense. There is zero benefit to this that I can think of. It is really hard to have a legitimate discussion about the uses and possible reasons for these large purchases when people are completely convinced that they are actually in danger of having government agents raid their homes and cities. Often times here, reason is not met with reasonable responses. Although this thread has been pretty calm and it actually has some discussion. I have enjoyed reading some much of this thread.

I question what they will really use them for but I also can see scenarios that that make sense for this purchase that do not equate to a government takeover. Border protection, a supply that lasts a long time, is this really an inordinate amount to purchase, training (even if on rare occasion).

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Speaking of government takeovers, we have extraordinary claims but not the evidence. When speaking of the extremes sides here, they are both equally misled and they bring in their prior baggage which form their opinions.

The paranoid government is coming guy is equally as crazy as the guy that doesn't even raise an eyebrow to the situation. Different sides of the same coin.

For the sake of discussion, what about it does not make sense?
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