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View Poll Results: Is discriminating against someone because of their sexual orientation wrong?
Yes, it is morally wrong 10 15.87%
Yes, it is morally and legally wrong 32 50.79%
No, its not morally wrong 0 0%
No, its not morally or legally wrong 10 15.87%
Yes, its legally wrong but morally right 0 0%
Yes, its morally wrong but still legal to discriminate 7 11.11%
Put me down for the GAZ option 4 6.35%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-25-2013, 06:51 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Is discriminating against someone because of their sexual orientation wrong?

I've never had a publicly gay friend, family member or co-worker. I have no experience with anyone being discriminated against for being gay. I can't understand the concept of male wanting to have sex with another male.

But, I don't have to understand it. Whatever two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is none of my business.

I believe that discriminating against someone only because of their sexual orientation is wrong and is/should be constitutionally protected.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:18 AM   #121
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It's discrimination when a business owner hires a family member over a person better qualified.

There are many gays who also like to hire one another and work together instead of with straight folks. They have a culture. Many gays have businesses and hire gays and not many straights. That's also discrimination too.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:29 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It's discrimination when a business owner hires a family member over a person better qualified.

There are many gays who also like to hire one another and work together instead of with straight folks. They have a culture. Many gays have businesses and hire gays and not many straights. That's also discrimination too.
Shhhh straight white male gun owners are the REAL terrorists in this country remember?
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:48 AM   #123
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That's only because marriage has been defined as a union of a man and a woman for millenia. That's what it is. It was always an economic union to further the race. That's based on natural law.
No, actually it hasn't. Marriage has been defined for millenia as a social contract that is recognized by Church and State. This includes a wide variety of situations, although almost exclusively involving those of opposite gender. The idea of marriage as it is practiced in present day America being the definitive form is relatively modern.


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Gay marriage isn't exactly based on natural law. It's going to be based positivist law. Furthermore, they haven't wanted to marry. They wanted to be left alone by the state until the HIV problem. But even if they wanted to, they could marry as marriage was once done. Just up and marry. Doesn't mean it would be recognized.
That is incorrect. Gay marriage is absolutely rooted in lex naturalis. To deny that is to deny that homosexual behavior exists. Most people do want to be left alone by the State. I completely understand that sentiment. Unfortunately the State intrudes into our lives, so the State is obligated to treat her citizens with equality.



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So, no, it's your opinion that's a cop out.
I hold that opinion because it appears self evident.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:51 AM   #124
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Since when did you have to be constitutional lawyer to have an opinion? Just because you have or not read a legal brief is not the reason you are allowed to have an opinion.

I don't have to read legal briefs to know that discrimination against citizens, separating out a group of fellow citizens for discrimination is wrong.

I like Scalia's question today, "when did it become unconstitutional?"

IMHO, Just like not allowing women to vote, discrimination against blacks, slavery, 3/5ths of a person............ it should have been unconstitutional on day one of the republic.
So, you oppose any kind of affirmative action that gives preferential treatment to a minority.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:52 AM   #125
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It depends on who they choose, just like all of us.
Not really, no. It's a tired cop out that justifies unwarranted and unneeded intrusion into a social contract.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:53 AM   #126
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Not really, no. It's a tired cop out that justifies unwarranted and unneeded intrusion into a social contract.
So why are you demanding the govt stay involved in such an institution when it never was before relatively modern times?
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:59 AM   #127
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So why are you demanding the govt stay involved in such an institution when it never was before relatively modern times?
Because the State is involved, and that looks like it isn't going to change any time in the near future. I would prefer that the State function in a record keeping capacity and that there were no laws governing marriage between adult citizens.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:02 AM   #128
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Not really, no. It's a tired cop out that justifies unwarranted and unneeded intrusion into a social contract.
Sure it does. The concept of equality is being perverted by the gay marriage via equal protection forces. Equality isn't based on personal desire. If I hold a random drawing for free football tickets where everyone on ChiefsPlanet has an equal chance to win, I'm treating everyone equally, even if they're Chiefs tickets and some ChiefsPlanet members would rather have Broncos tickets.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:03 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
No, actually it hasn't. Marriage has been defined for millenia as a social contract that is recognized by Church and State. This includes a wide variety of situations, although almost exclusively involving those of opposite gender. The idea of marriage as it is practiced in present day America being the definitive form is relatively modern.
Actually, that's not true. People just up and married without the state. Even in ancient societies which were tolerant of homosexuals, marriage was recognized between a man and a woman, without state involvement.

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That is incorrect. Gay marriage is absolutely rooted in lex naturalis. To deny that is to deny that homosexual behavior exists. Most people do want to be left alone by the State. I completely understand that sentiment. Unfortunately the State intrudes into our lives, so the State is obligated to treat her citizens with equality.
Then you don't understand natural law. You take man back to a state of nature and there's actually very few natural rights. Sodomy isn't the basis for marriage because it doesn't forward survival of the race. Historically, children were needed for survival and it was considered wealth. Marriage was not based on love but on economic survival and furthering the race. Hence it's not part of nature aka right reasoning for survival.* It's merely a preference.

In the meantime you want the state to "treat her citizens with equality" meaning the arrangement is identical to hetersexual marriage when it isn't. You make cultural Marxist argument here which is demands equal results via special rights set by the state. Instead of just getting the state back out of it as it once was.


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I hold that opinion because it appears self evident.
If it were self-evident then millenia hasn't seen it revealed your way. It's not self-evident at all—if there is actually such a thing. If it were, then there'd be no argument.


* this does not apply to people who are unable to procreate because they have a disability or due to artificial means....it means as it exists in state of nature.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:05 AM   #130
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Sure it does. The concept of equality is being perverted by the gay marriage via equal protection forces.
When considering law in this particular situation, there are two relationships that the term "equality" applies to. The relationship between the married couple and the government, and the relationship between the married couple and society in general. Which are you referring to?
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:12 AM   #131
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Listo you are institutionalizing gay marriage

The Libertarian Case Against Gay Marriage
by Gay Libertarian Justin Raimondo
Gays an oppressed minority group? I don’t think so....

Instead of battling the state, they began to use the state against their perceived enemies...

The homosexual agenda of today has little relevance to the way gay people actually live their lives....

But the legislative agenda of the modern gay-rights movement is not meant to be useful to the gay person in the street: it is meant to garner support from heterosexual liberals and others with access to power. It is meant to assure the careers of aspiring gay politicos and boost the fortunes of the left wing of the Democratic Party. The gay-marriage campaign is the culmination of this distancing trend, the reductio ad absurdum of the civil rights paradigm.

The modern gay-rights movement is all about securing the symbols of societal acceptance. It is a defensive strategy, one that attempts to define homosexuals as an officially sanctioned victim group afflicted with an inherent disability, a disadvantage that must be compensated for legislatively. But if “gay pride” means anything, it means not wanting, needing, or seeking any sort of acceptance but self-acceptance. Marriage is a social institution designed by heterosexuals for heterosexuals: why should gay people settle for their cast-off hand-me-downs?
http://www.theamericanconservative.c...-gay-marriage/
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:14 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
When considering law in this particular situation, there are two relationships that the term "equality" applies to. The relationship between the married couple and the government, and the relationship between the married couple and society in general. Which are you referring to?
The only one that matters when we're talking about equal protection is the relationship between the couple and the government, if I understand you right.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:19 AM   #133
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Gay Marriage Sucks!
by Gay Libertarian Justin Raimondo
Which brings us to the central argument against gay marriage, which is that it is based on a heterosexual model of sexual and emotional relationships, one that just doesn’t fit the gay lifestyle. The whole idea of getting gays hitched is derivative of the central error of egalitarianism, [Cultural Marxism] the counterintuitive conception of human beings as being “equal” and, therefore, interchangeable—and therefore one-size-fits-all. Egalitarianism isn’t really a political ideology: it’s a religion, one quite capable of withstanding a sustained assault of clear evidence to the contrary...

With gay marriage comes the inevitable gay divorce—and, believe you me, it’s going to be ugly.
If gay activists think that marriage is going to somehow legitimize homosexuality in the eyes of Middle America, then they have yet to imagine the new hit “reality tv” show, “Gay Divorce Court,” which will make the heterosexual version seem like a Sunday School picnic. Indeed, I predict that, given the nature of the male animal, the gay male divorce rate will soon outstrip the rate of new gay male marriages. Gay marriage—in the gay male community, that is—is prone to self-abolition...

This gay male aversion to marriage is prefigured in the rate of domestic partnerships—intended as a precursor of gay marriage—in urban gay ghettos. Even fewer will sign up for that trip to the altar, especially when it dawns on them that with the right to marry comes a few responsibilities, particularly of a financial nature...

The very phrase “gay marriage” is an oxymoron. ]Homosexuality, after all, is really all about the avoidance of marriage – and the responsibility of raising a family. It is the embrace of sensuality for its own sake, as an instrument of pure pleasure rather than procreation. Do gay guys really want to give up what is most attractive – to males, at any rate – about their recreational activities, the tremendous sense of freedom it implies?

Today’s gay activists are embarked on what is truly a futile mission, to make homosexuality seem “natural.” But they really ought to take their cues from their predecessors among the ancients, who took the opposite tack.


Worth reading the entire editorial.
http://takimag.com/article/gay_marri...#axzz2Ol0yqsCX
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:30 AM   #134
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Actually, that's not true. People just up and married without the state. Even in ancient societies which were tolerant of homosexuals, marriage was recognized between a man and a woman, without state involvement.
It was also recognized beyond simply a man and a woman. There have been many forms of marriage historically recognized. The Bible records several examples, or rules, of what we would not consider to be traditional marriage. Those marriages were just almost exclusively of opposite gender.


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Then you don't understand natural law. You take man back to a state of nature and there's actually very few natural rights. Sodomy isn't the basis for marriage because it doesn't forward survival of the race. Historically, children were needed for survival and it was considered wealth. Marriage was not based on love but on economic survival and furthering the race. Hence it's not part of nature aka right reasoning for survival.* It's merely a preference.
I understand it, I just don't agree with you on what is and is not natural. I observe that homosexual behavior, including pair bonding, exists in the animal kingdom. I observe that homosexual people in long term relationships are as healthy and happy as their straight counterparts other than dealing with interference by the State and Church, and bigotry from society. I don't accept that marriage exists to forward the survival of the human race because it never has existed for that purpose. It's a social contract enacted by individuals. It has been enacted for a wide variety of reasons throughout human history. I believe that this preference of partner is the root of the contract.

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In the meantime you want the state to "treat her citizens with equality" meaning the arrangement is identical to hetersexual marriage when it isn't. You make cultural Marxist argument here which is demands equal results via special rights set by the state. Instead of just getting the state back out of it as it once was.
Yes. Equality. As in there is no difference between a gay and straight marriage in the eyes of the law. I accept that there are special rights given to married citizens. As I stated, I don't believe that this will change any time soon. They aren't being voted on or even considered as far as I know. Be that as it may, those are two separate issues.



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If it were self-evident then millenia hasn't seen it revealed your way. It's not self-evident at all—if there is actually such a thing. If it were, then there'd be no argument.
My way? Are you unaware of the substantial changes that the nature of a marriage has changed through human history?


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* this does not apply to people who are unable to procreate because they have a disability or due to artificial means....it means as it exists in state of nature.
Again, procreation is not in any way the sole worth of a marriage. The acts of a single person or group of persons do not have to benefit society to be worthwhile.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:34 AM   #135
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The very phrase “gay marriage” is an oxymoron. ]Homosexuality, after all, is really all about the avoidance of marriage – and the responsibility of raising a family. It is the embrace of sensuality for its own sake, as an instrument of pure pleasure rather than procreation.
This is really all you have to read. This guy is a moron.
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