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Old 01-25-2013, 04:27 PM  
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***OFFICIAL*** 2013 STL Cardinals Thread

From Bernie's column:

People have asked me why we’re not more emotional,” Matheny said in his office after Sunday’s game. “They say that we look subdued, always intense. That our actions are methodical, robotic at times. That’s what got us here. This isn’t the time to change it.”

It’s hard to argue with the manager’s assessment. The Cardinals finished with 97 victories, most by a Cards team since 2005, and tied with Boston for No. 1 in the majors this year.


Their 54-27 showing at Busch Stadium matches the 1985 team for the best single-season home winning percentage (.667) by the Cardinals since 1944.

A postseason theme has emerged, and it echoes the mantra that surfaced before the start of 2013: remember the fall of 2012. Remember falling to San Francisco in the NLCS.


The Cardinals’ veterans still haven’t forgotten. They still aren’t over it. It’s why Matheny resists GM John Mozeliak’s urgings to smile and put on a happier face.


Here's the most impressive aspect of the Cardinals' division championship: they prevailed over two other outstanding teams, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.



The 97-win Cardinals were better this year (regular season) than they were in 2011, when they won 90 games, and 2012, when they won 88.
Here are a few numbers that help put the Cardinals' Central title and No. 1 NL seed in perspective:



* Since MLB switched to a three-division format in each league in 1994, this was only the sixth time that a division had three 90-plus win teams. St. Louis won 97, Pittsburgh 94, and Cincinnati 90.
* Since the format change, this was only the second time that an NL division had three 90-win teams. In 2002 the NL West had Arizona (98 wins), San Francisco (95) and Los Angeles (92).
* The 2013 Cardinals faced more esteemed and difficult competition at the top of the division than any of the division-winning teams managed by Tony La Russa.

The Pirates were hardly pushovers; the Cardinals had to work like mad and kick in with a strong finish to put the division away, and didn't clinch until Game No. 160.



The Cardinals went 9-10 against Pittsburgh this season and were 11-8 vs. Cincinnati.


The Cardinals won only three of 10 games at PNC Park in Pittsburgh and split the 10 games at Cincinnati. The Cardinals were 6-3 against both teams at Busch Stadium.


The Cardinals (1st), Pirates (3rd) and Reds (5th) ranked among the top five in wins in the NL. The three teams were among the top 11 in wins in MLB. All three teams finished in the top five in the majors for best overall ERA, and each were in the top five MLB for best starting-pitching ERA.


The original purpose to this piece was to point out that the Cardinals managed to finish with the league's best record while competing in a division that had three 90-win teams for only the second time in the last 19 years of National League baseball.



The Cardinals really earned this.
Thanks for reading ...
— Bernie

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Old 04-04-2013, 01:04 AM   #301
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:12 AM   #302
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Slightly OT: Now that Andrus has been locked up by Texas, what does that portend for Profar?

Do they move Kinsler and put him at 2nd, or try and move Profar for a corner bat?
Short-term, I think they move Kinsler to a corner OF spot or 1B (or trade him).

Long-term, I think Profar is their 2B and a lineup anchor for a decade or more. Just can't see them choosing to commit to Kinsler (who is 30) rather than Profar.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:46 AM   #303
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Short-term, I think they move Kinsler to a corner OF spot or 1B (or trade him).

Long-term, I think Profar is their 2B and a lineup anchor for a decade or more. Just can't see them choosing to commit to Kinsler (who is 30) rather than Profar.
I don't know. Why would you move the best SS prospect in baseball to a new position? He or Kinsler could get mad about the move even if Profar had no choice for 6 years. He could become average at 2B, a lot of things could go wrong.

I still think Taveras for Profar is more of a possibility now than last week. It just makes sense for both teams.

I've been drooling at seeing Taveras probably like Ranger fans have been for Profar. But we have options at the corner OF position. We have nothing at SS. The Rangers are set in the middle infield but need a long term solution for a corner Outfielder.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:52 AM   #304
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I don't know. Why would you move the best SS prospect in baseball to a new position? He or Kinsler could get mad about the move even if Profar had no choice for 6 years. He could become average at 2B, a lot of things could go wrong.

I still think Taveras for Profar is more of a possibility now than last week. It just makes sense for both teams.

I've been drooling at seeing Taveras probably like Ranger fans have been for Profar. But we have options at the corner OF position. We have nothing at SS. The Rangers are set in the middle infield but need a long term solution for a corner Outfielder.
I agree with this. I don't see Texas doing this straight up though because SS are at a premium compared to OF. I'm torn because I've been following Taveras for years but looking at it in a general managerial big picture kind of way, it'd be a no brainer for the Cardinals to trade Taveras for Profar and have that cost controlled franchise SS for years.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:00 AM   #305
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I agree with this. I don't see Texas doing this straight up though because SS are at a premium compared to OF.
Maybe thats the hold up. Maybe the Rangers want Taveras and someone like Kelly?
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:03 AM   #306
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I don't know. Why would you move the best SS prospect in baseball to a new position? He or Kinsler could get mad about the move even if Profar had no choice for 6 years. He could become average at 2B, a lot of things could go wrong.

I still think Taveras for Profar is more of a possibility now than last week. It just makes sense for both teams.

I've been drooling at seeing Taveras probably like Ranger fans have been for Profar. But we have options at the corner OF position. We have nothing at SS. The Rangers are set in the middle infield but need a long term solution for a corner Outfielder.
One of the things EVERYONE loves about Profar is his approach, leadership and attitude. At least most scouting reports I've seen. I can't see the guy complaining about being asked to play a different MI position. He's a baseball rat on top of his extraordinary baseball skills.

I'm also not convinced Profar isn't a better defensive option at SS than Andrus in the long-run (based on recent scouting buzz), but the big-money commitment seems to indicate the Rangers are sticking with Andrus there.

It doesn't make sense to me to commit to Kinsler long-term rather than Profar (one is 20, the other is 30). It's also much easier to find an above-average corner OF than it is to find even an average 2B/SS.

I can see that it would potentially increase the likelihood they move Profar, but if they were trading with the Cardinals for Taveras, everything I've seen indicates you're talking about Taveras + another quality name (at least, maybe two, with one being at a lower level).

Personally, I'd love for Taveras to end up in Texas, as I have him for $1 in my auction/keeper league, and he'd put up insane numbers in Arlington.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:05 AM   #307
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Maybe thats the hold up. Maybe the Rangers want Taveras and someone like Kelly?
Kelly not close to enough by himself, I don't think (Cardinals fans like him much more than the rest of baseball). Could be the third piece, though (maybe they convince Texas to do it for Taveras, Kelly and Jenkins or Martinez rather than Taveras + Rosenthal).
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:12 AM   #308
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I can see that it would potentially increase the likelihood they move Profar, but if they were trading with the Cardinals for Taveras, everything I've seen indicates you're talking about Taveras + another quality name (at least, maybe two, with one being at a lower level).
I'd be against trading Taveras+ Kelly+ a AA prospect. Maybe I'm too close to the situation but that seems way too much to pay for Profar. Cardinal fans would go ballastic if they traded Taveras and one of Rosenthal/Jenkins/Martinez for Profar.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:20 AM   #309
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I'd be against trading Taveras+ Kelly+ a AA prospect. Maybe I'm too close to the situation but that seems way too much to pay for Profar. Cardinal fans would go ballastic if they traded Taveras and one of Rosenthal/Jenkins/Martinez.
I think that's what it would take. Or Miller/Wacha + Rosenthal/Jenkins/Martinez.

I've got to admit, I don't see what Cardinals fans see regarding Joe Kelly. I see a league average starter/replacement-level starter (OK No. 4/5 guy). A valuable commodity, to be sure, but not a star by any means. And the 7th or 8th best young and controlled option the Cardinals have in the next few years.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:23 AM   #310
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Pretty sure if Profar can play SS he could play CF too...

Or they could just get rid of Kinsler.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:24 AM   #311
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I think that's what it would take. Or Miller/Wacha + Rosenthal/Jenkins/Martinez.

I've got to admit, I don't see what Cardinals fans see regarding Joe Kelly. I see a league average starter/replacement-level starter (OK No. 4/5 guy). A valuable commodity, to be sure, but not a star by any means. And the 7th or 8th best young and controlled option the Cardinals have in the next few years.
Then it will never happen. The Cardinals FO knows that the fan base would be so pissed off about the deal. The FO needs those 3 million fans every year to break even financially.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:29 AM   #312
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Then it will never happen. The Cardinals FO knows that the fan base would be so pissed off about the deal. The FO needs those 3 million fans every year to break even financially.
Really?

The Cardinals fanbase would be be that pissed off in trading for the No. 1 prospect in baseball, at a severe position of need, and solving the franchise's SS situation for the next 12 years?

What would piss them off? Moving Taveras by itself? Or having to surrender some secondary prospects in additional to Taveras to get him?

A straight-up swap of Taveras and Profar isn't going to happen.

Have to give up enough to make the trade worth the Rangers' while...
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:33 AM   #313
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Kelly's a good kid with a nice fastball and a great nickname, but he's pretty much a one pitch pitcher.

I'd be fine with trading him.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:36 AM   #314
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Really?

The Cardinals fanbase would be be that pissed off in trading for the No. 1 prospect in baseball, at a severe position of need, and solving the franchise's SS situation for the next 12 years?

What would piss them off? Moving Taveras by itself? Or having to surrender some secondary prospects in additional to Taveras to get him?

A straight-up swap of Taveras and Profar isn't going to happen.

Have to give up enough to make the trade worth the Rangers' while...
Here's the problem: the Rangers Chief'd themselves with the Andrus deal. Unless they move Kinsler they've blocked their best prospect.

If I were the Cardinals, I might take the Andrus contract as a red flag WRT Profar. If you believed in him to the extent that you say, why would you block his natural position of greatest impact and need?

I'd offer them Tavares and Kelly for Profar but no more. To be honest, at this point I could see why the Cardinals would be reticent to do more than a straight up deal. The Rangers could have easily moved Andrus for a corner outfielder and kept a cost-controlled Profar but didn't.

Why?

Addendum: Cardinals fans are not going to riot or stop attending games b/c they trade Taveras. That's preposterous.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:45 AM   #315
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Addendum: Cardinals fans are not going to riot or stop attending games b/c they trade Taveras. That's preposterous.
I was talking about the fan base being pissed at trading Taveras + Kelly + one of Rosenthal/Jenkins/Martinez for Profar not the idea of trading Taveras.
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