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Old 04-08-2013, 07:10 AM  
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:28 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat View Post
They told everyone in the country that wasn't white that they were no longer citizens and that they had to go live in tribes with their own people. They also couldn't be represented in the government, unless they were white, to fight against that. I don't fault anyone for fighting against that.

You are using Communism as the wedge to somehow justify Apartheid.
She's not doing that. Are you using apartheid to justify communism?
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:38 PM   #77
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:45 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat View Post
They told everyone in the country that wasn't white that they were no longer citizens and that they had to go live in tribes with their own people. They also couldn't be represented in the government, unless they were white, to fight against that. I don't fault anyone for fighting against that.

You are using Communism as the wedge to somehow justify Apartheid.
No you are altering my words to suit your antagonism. I see such things as a symptom of colonial rule. Just as in early America, Indians and white settlers they had their own governments in their own homelands. They were allowed to operate as tribes instead of one national govt—as they had existed before. So they were represented just in their own governments which reflected their own values which differed from the whites who settled. To my knowledge it was in international affairs, where the white dominated govt represented the tribal govts to the world. These tribes, which dotted Africa, simply did not have one national identity let alone regional or by state.

To my knowledge, if SA was so bad under apartheid, then why were so many coming across the borders from other parts of Africa to live there? That says something. There was still more opportunity. Meanwhile, up north the tribes would slaughter one another.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:39 PM   #79
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She's not doing that. Are you using apartheid to justify communism?
I never said anything about communism because it's off topic. Margaret Thatcher's support of Apartheid and declaring Mandela a terrorist for fighting against it was appalling and it gives people good reason to strongly dislike her. Money certainly isn't going to sway them to the other side.

I like what we have here for the most part and think communism sucks, but it's not this big boogeyman for me either. If the people of South Africa, all people not just one segment, voted for people who are communist, then so be it. It doesn't make them wrong just because they aren't doing it the American way.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:55 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat View Post
I never said anything about communism because it's off topic. Margaret Thatcher's support of Apartheid and declaring Mandela a terrorist for fighting against it was appalling and it gives people good reason to strongly dislike her. Money certainly isn't going to sway them to the other side.

I like what we have here for the most part and think communism sucks, but it's not this big boogeyman for me either. If the people of South Africa, all people not just one segment, voted for people who are communist, then so be it. It doesn't make them wrong just because they aren't doing it the American way.
To the extent that Thatcher "supported" Apartheid, it was because she was supporting the South African government against the African National Congress and it's communist/communist-sympathizing revolutionaries. Let's not lose sight of the fact that this was during the cold war. The predominant struggle for the British, as well as the US, was the struggle between the free first world and the Soviet's communist block. South Africa was on our side of that divide while the ANC was on the wrong side (at least nominally). Thatcher didn't support SA for their racial policies. Mandella was a leader in an organization that used terrorist tactics at times.

Communism is a bigger boogieman than Apartheid because it's deceptively attractive. Apartheid is like a exposing yourself to gun fire. Communism is like exposing yourself to cancer (by doing something you enjoy like sunbathing or smoking a cigarette).
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:50 AM   #81
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I e-mailed one of my English friends asking the overall opinion regarding Thatcher’s death over there and he replied that “most are pretty happy she’s gone”. He called her a “marmite”, polarizing figure that was either loved or hated with no middle ground. He also thinks it's funny those that are most vocal about her death weren’t even born yet when she was PM.
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