Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2013, 10:07 PM  
luv luv is offline
True Luv
 
luv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $993179
FDA appeals making 'morning-after' pill available to all ages

http://www.ky3.com/news/sns-rt-us-us...,4232178.story

Terry Baynes
Reuters
8:00 p.m. CDT, May 1, 2013

(Reuters) - The Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday appealed a court order directing the agency to make "morning-after" emergency contraception pills available without a prescription to all girls of reproductive age.

Lawyers with the Justice Department filed the appeal with the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, according to court documents.

The appeal is the latest foray in the years-long legal battle over the pill known as "Plan B," a drug that has also sparked political and religious clashes. If taken up to 120 hours after unprotected sex, it is designed to prevent pregnancy.

The government is seeking to overturn U.S. District Judge Edward Korman's ruling from April 5 that required the FDA to make the emergency contraception available over-the-counter to women of all ages within 30 days.

The Justice Department has asked the district court to temporarily stop its order from taking effect while the appeal is pending, said FDA spokeswoman Erica Jefferson.

The district judge's ruling came in response to a lawsuit originally filed in 2005 by the Center for Reproductive Rights and other groups seeking to strike down age and access limits to the emergency contraception. They argued that there was no scientific proof that girls of reproductive age could not safely use the drug without supervision.

Korman's order reversed a surprise December 2011 decision by U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. At the time, the FDA had decided to approve over-the-counter sales with no age limits when Sebelius ordered it to reverse course, barring girls under 17 from buying the pills without a prescription.

President Barack Obama supported that restriction, invoking his daughters. But the timing, 11 months ahead of the presidential election, sparked criticism that he was trying to placate social conservatives.

In his ruling, Korman called Sebelius' decision "arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable."

"The motivation for the secretary's action was obviously political," he wrote.

Nancy Northup, president of the Center for Reproductive Rights, criticized the government's decision to appeal.

Obama's "administration has decided once again to deprive women of their right to obtain emergency contraception without unjustified and burdensome restrictions," she said in a statement.

Before filing its appeal, the FDA said on Tuesday that it would allow girls as young as 15 years old to buy without a prescription the Plan B One-Step emergency contraceptive, made by a unit of Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd.

The agency said its decision to lower the age limit for Plan B One-Step was based on scientific data submitted by Teva that showed girls as young as 15 could safely use the drug without the intervention of a healthcare provider. Cashiers will still have to verify the customer's age before selling it, the FDA said.

The case is Tummino et al. v. Hamburg et al., U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York, No. 12-763.
Posts: 59,612
luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 11:33 AM   #106
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
Permitted
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Casino cash: $61853
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
Then it is a crying shame that children cannot talk with their parents about these issues. Your reality fits you and mine, me.
I guess we both win......Happy?
Yeah, it is. I agree with that entirely. Ideally, the parents would have the talk, tell them what they believe (in your case celibacy, and probably mine as well), and hope that the values they've instilled in their child hold true. But if they don't, it would suck to have a kid because the adolescent had nobody or nothing to turn to.
Posts: 4,095
Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 11:34 AM   #107
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
Permitted
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Casino cash: $61853
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
Well tell us what you really meant then?
I pretty much exactly meant what I've posted over and over. I can write it, but the comprehension part is on you.
Posts: 4,095
Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 11:35 AM   #108
luv luv is offline
True Luv
 
luv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $993179
Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Agree.

I don't have a 15-year-old daughter, but if I did...

1) I'd rather her not be sexually active than be sexually active
2) If she's going to be sexually active, I'd rather she be on birth control than be at high risk for getting pregnant
3) If she's not on birth control and has an unprotected sexual encounter, I'd rather she take emergency contraception than become pregnant.
And those who do not want their children to do so also have the option of trying to force that view on their children without the government interfering. "Conservatives" can still be conservative without forcing "liberals" to be conservative. My view of parental consent is weak, but I'm still for it until further research on any possible side effects causing possible permanent damage.
__________________
It's never too late to become the person you were meant to be.
Posts: 59,612
luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 11:38 AM   #109
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
M-I-Z-Z-O-U
 
duncan_idaho's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $80358
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
We aren't talking medication to preserve health of an individual with an illness......the industry standard appears to be moronic
That's why I said "Let me go reductio for a second." To take the argument to the extreme and make the point that parental values don't/should not trump the kid's right to medical treatment.

The industry standard is based on legal protection for individual rights. It's annoying but designed with what is best for all individuals in mind.
__________________
"You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass."
---- Sinatra
Posts: 7,570
duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 11:43 AM   #110
BigChiefTablet BigChiefTablet is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Casino cash: $27818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
I pretty much exactly meant what I've posted over and over. I can write it, but the comprehension part is on you.
My reading comprehension is excellent. Which part Pat's summary of your argument do you disagree with?
Posts: 1,825
BigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 11:46 AM   #111
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
M-I-Z-Z-O-U
 
duncan_idaho's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $80358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
Yeah, it is. I agree with that entirely. Ideally, the parents would have the talk, tell them what they believe (in your case celibacy, and probably mine as well), and hope that the values they've instilled in their child hold true. But if they don't, it would suck to have a kid because the adolescent had nobody or nothing to turn to.
Exactly.

If Sally's parents are extremely strict Catholics, they're going to tell her to remain celibate and DEFINITELY never take birth control.

I respect their right to teach and instruct their kid as they see fit. That doesn't mean Sally buys all the way in to her parents values and should have no outlets or alternatives.

What's better for society:

1) Sally is sexually active AND on birth control, both against her parents' beliefs and wishes and is RESPONSIBLE about her sexual activity
2) Silly is sexually active against her parents' wishes but is not on birth control, and is NOT responsible about her sexual activity, resulting in a an unwanted pregnancy
3) Sally is sexually active but is not on birth control and is NOT responsible about her sexual activity, resulting in an unwanted pregnancy that she aborts.
__________________
"You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass."
---- Sinatra
Posts: 7,570
duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 11:46 AM   #112
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
Permitted
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Casino cash: $61853
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
My reading comprehension is excellent. Which part Pat's summary of your argument do you disagree with?
Put those excellent comprehension skills to work
Posts: 4,095
Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.Cephalic Trauma is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 12:09 PM   #113
BigChiefTablet BigChiefTablet is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Casino cash: $27818
Maybe I got ahead of myself. I assumed you were arguing that making this drug available over the counter was the right thing to do.

But you said that ideally the parents should be involved in these types of decisions, but the final decision should rest with the kid. If these pills are available over the counter, then the parents can be bypassed altogether. So you must not be arguing that this pill should be available over the counter.

Hell, I can't even buy Sudafed without showing my ID.
Posts: 1,825
BigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliBigChiefTablet 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 12:59 PM   #114
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $473400
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv View Post
And your imposing the morality that a 15 year old should not have an independent choice.

Peronally, I'm still leaning towards parental consent, but I'm doing so more for medical purposes. While the pill will not terminate a pregnancy, there are still health factors (side effects) to think about. The argument of morality goes both ways, IMO.
Yes, I'm defending the family unit. That's a version of morality that has been the foundation of western culture for quite some time. You're entertaining the idea of driving another wedge into that family unit based on the conceit that you know better what is good for someone's kid than their parents do.

I hope I don't ever hear you complaining about the way religious conservatives (of which I'm not one) want to impose their morality on the rest of us. It's always a two way street.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,743
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 01:13 PM   #115
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $473400
Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Let me go reductio for a second...

How far do you extend the whole "parents have a say" concept?

What if the parents' individual value is that their daughter should not take any medication, of any sort, at all? And that child has any number of chronic conditions that would normally be treated easily and effectively with daily medication (diabetes, high blood pressure, anemia, athsma, etc.).

Is the parent's SAY in that teenager's choice still paramount?

I can tell you that from a legal and healthcare standpoint, it isn't. Parents can't restrict what medications are prescribed by their doctor and can't even restrict what medications their health coverage will provide to their child.

Hell, a parent can't even discuss their teenager's prescriptions without the kid's permission/authorization. My company is a Fortune 50 health care organization, and it actually requires authorization for any child 11 or older. This is the industry standard.
I think great deference should be given to the parent. In extraordinary cases like serious child abuse or life threatening medical conditions, I think it's OK for the state to intervene. Pregnancy (or the mere possibility of pregnancy in this case) isn't what I would consider the kind of condition that warrants stripping parental rights away.

I'm not sure what you're calling an industry standard, but it's not standard for a healthcare professional to require written authorization from an 11 year old to discuss that child's prescriptions with his parents.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,743
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 01:17 PM   #116
luv luv is offline
True Luv
 
luv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $993179
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
Maybe I got ahead of myself. I assumed you were arguing that making this drug available over the counter was the right thing to do.

But you said that ideally the parents should be involved in these types of decisions, but the final decision should rest with the kid. If these pills are available over the counter, then the parents can be bypassed altogether. So you must not be arguing that this pill should be available over the counter.

Hell, I can't even buy Sudafed without showing my ID.
I'm saying that there should be parental consent, but for different reasons than "morality". I disagree with that parents rights to parent their child is imposed upon by NOT making parental consent mandatory.

The more I think about it, though, the more I'm still torn. I see the argument with both sides.

From a legal standpoint of individual rights that some are protecting, but, at the same time, minors don't have the same legal rights as adults. They cannot represent themselves. They can't even legally enter into binding contract.

At the same time, I can see how this might help the teen pregnancy rate possibly go down.
__________________
It's never too late to become the person you were meant to be.
Posts: 59,612
luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 01:24 PM   #117
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $473400
Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Exactly.

If Sally's parents are extremely strict Catholics, they're going to tell her to remain celibate and DEFINITELY never take birth control.

I respect their right to teach and instruct their kid as they see fit. That doesn't mean Sally buys all the way in to her parents values and should have no outlets or alternatives.

What's better for society:

1) Sally is sexually active AND on birth control, both against her parents' beliefs and wishes and is RESPONSIBLE about her sexual activity
2) Silly is sexually active against her parents' wishes but is not on birth control, and is NOT responsible about her sexual activity, resulting in a an unwanted pregnancy
3) Sally is sexually active but is not on birth control and is NOT responsible about her sexual activity, resulting in an unwanted pregnancy that she aborts.
What's better for society is not undermining the parent/child relationship and encouraging girls who aren't ready emotionally for sex to go ahead and give it a try anyway because they can have anonymous access to sex-without-pregnancy pills.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,743
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 01:25 PM   #118
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $473400
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv View Post
I'm saying that there should be parental consent, but for different reasons than "morality". I disagree with that parents rights to parent their child is imposed upon by NOT making parental consent mandatory.

The more I think about it, though, the more I'm still torn. I see the argument with both sides.

From a legal standpoint of individual rights that some are protecting, but, at the same time, minors don't have the same legal rights as adults. They cannot represent themselves. They can't even legally enter into binding contract.

At the same time, I can see how this might help the teen pregnancy rate possibly go down.
Most relevantly, they can't even legally consent to sex.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,743
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 01:36 PM   #119
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
M-I-Z-Z-O-U
 
duncan_idaho's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $80358
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
What's better for society is not undermining the parent/child relationship and encouraging girls who aren't ready emotionally for sex to go ahead and give it a try anyway because they can have anonymous access to sex-without-pregnancy pills.
You're way too jaded to really be this naive about this subject.

Providing access to safe (and pregnancy-free) sex for teenagers doesn't increase the amount of sex teenagers have. It just increases the amount of safe (and pregnancy-free) sex teenagers have.

Providing access does not undermine the parent/child relationship. The actions and choices of the individuals are the only things that can truly undermine the parent/child relationship.
__________________
"You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass."
---- Sinatra
Posts: 7,570
duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.duncan_idaho 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 02:32 PM   #120
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $473400
Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
You're way too jaded to really be this naive about this subject.

Providing access to safe (and pregnancy-free) sex for teenagers doesn't increase the amount of sex teenagers have. It just increases the amount of safe (and pregnancy-free) sex teenagers have.

Providing access does not undermine the parent/child relationship. The actions and choices of the individuals are the only things that can truly undermine the parent/child relationship.
OK, I disagree on both counts.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,743
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.