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Old 05-05-2013, 06:03 PM  
ROYC75 ROYC75 is online now
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Bengahzi ? Wh Knew, Who lied, who turned a blind eye and deaf ears ?

Bengahzi, we all knew it was a cover up, millions of Americans was blind and deaf, yet still voted for a POTUS and staff that lied and covered it up.

Do you feel better about the POTUS now since this happened? ( as in your own twisted political view , you feel he was the right choice as POTUS )

Same, as in who cares?

Worst ?

So where do you stand about the current staff and the way Bengahzi was handled now ?
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:21 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
I don't necessarily think it was handled well, but the rest of country has moved on.
I'd still like answers. People were ignored and left to be murdered. Then it was covered up blaming a shitty little video. Heck Obama and Hilary either one didn't have a problem jerking this guy out of his home for it either. He's locked up now too. I don't know how any of this could be considered alright by anyone.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:23 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
Vast majority of people don't give a flying **** about this issue.

Hell, don't forget Romney even tried to capitalize on it and failed. I know many of you 'wingers are obsessed with this and they still talk about it on Fox to try and keep you riled up about it, but most voters realize that many of the people in that region are nuts and thus, don't really care about this. I know that frustrates you 'wingers, but that's just the way it is.
Candy Crowley and the rest of Obama's Praetorian guard media were still protecting him at that point. There are signs of cracks in that defense.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:33 AM   #93
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I don't think Liberals give a shit if their leader is an outright liar and let 4 people die to try and gain political points. Just astounding
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:39 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Ok, well, I'm asking--several times, actually--and no one has even tried to answer. How would Obama "letting" 4 people die score any political points?
By letting them die, the Obama administration avoided a much larger firefight with boots on the ground and lots of "civilian" deaths. The idea that terrorism was alive and well and filling the void that we left in Libya with our lead from behind approach would be unmistakable. That doesn't mean that they intended for these guys to die or that they killed them. It just means that their political considerations trumped saving them.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:40 AM   #95
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I'm missing the point. The Tillman situation was handled at a much lower level.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:44 AM   #96
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Is Benghazi Becoming a Watergate, or Iran-Contra, or Both?

I'm going with "both". Here are some good questions that should be pursued.
Is Benghazi Becoming a Watergate, or Iran-Contra, or Both?
By Victor Davis Hanson
May 6, 2013 6:05 PM

Benghazi cannot be dismissed with “long ago” or “what difference does it make” exasperation, given it may have the cover-up and civil-liberties aspects of Watergate and the weapon-transfers and foreign-policy implications of Iran-Contra.

1. Can a State Department be credible that on its own accord seeks to alter intelligence synopses, and deny facts to maintain a pre-election narrative? For all the criticism of the State Department under most Republican presidents, at least the tension between State and the administration kept State honest and independent. But Benghazi shows that State has now almost descended into an arm of the 2012 reelection effort, in the manner of the media itself, as we saw in Candy Crowley’s exasperation over the Benghazi dispute in the third presidential debate. In Watergate, intelligence and law-enforcement officials were pressured to change their assessments to reflect pseudo-national security concerns; but in this case, the State Department and/or administration officials themselves willingly refashioned them as the political situation apparently demanded.

2. Civil libertarians should be concerned about the free-speech/due process implications in the fate of the otherwise petty criminal Mr. Nakoula, who was summarily jailed — coincidently right after the president had referred to his video at the U.N. with, “The future must not be determined by those who insult the prophet of Islam.” But so far there is no evidence that Mr. Nakoula’s amateurish YouTube trailer had anything to do with the violence in Benghazi. Instead his crime seems to have been offering an ideal scapegoat for a pre-election narrative of a right-wing, bigoted Islamophobe, whose extremism prompted an understandable pushback against innocent Americans abroad, and who could make amends to the Muslim world by going back to jail, while offering a rhetorical occasion for the president of the United States to remind the Muslim world that we all suffer from the excesses of common enemies such as intolerant reactionaries like Nakoula.

3. Usually an administration errs on the side of caution in cases of potential violence at embassies and consulates. But did the pre-November narrative of a moribund al-Qaeda in the aftermath of the bin Laden raid, and a Libyan spring blooming after the “lead from behind” American-aided removal of Qaddafi, trump on-the-ground worries about the safety of our diplomats? In other words, both before and during the attacks, did the State Department and/or the administration decide that the dangers to our diplomats were outweighed by greater fears of a possible embarrassing Mogadishu-like shoot-out? Were military recommendations ignored, or massaged before being voiced?

4. What exactly were we doing in Benghazi, with both a consulate and a CIA compound, and what if any were the connections between the late ambassador, Libyan weapons, Syria, arming rebels, Turkey, etc.? And who exactly were the terrorists working for, or what exactly were they trying to achieve?

5. Why did not Secretary Clinton or President Obama simply come out and say that they misread the requests from Libya and should have beefed up security, and that al-Qaeda remains a deadly foe that tries to attack us and our Libyan allies? Had they just been honest, the public would probably have forgiven their laxity. The subsequent resignations of the secretaries of state and defense, and the director of the CIA will make reconstruction of events much more difficult.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:44 AM   #97
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What election was going on at that time?
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:46 AM   #98
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By letting them die, the Obama administration avoided a much larger firefight with boots on the ground and lots of "civilian" deaths. The idea that terrorism was alive and well and filling the void that we left in Libya with our lead from behind approach would be unmistakable. That doesn't mean that they intended for these guys to die or that they killed them. It just means that their political considerations trumped saving them.
JFC they didn't let anybody die and to suggest that is just as retarded as people thinking Bush let 3000 Americans die on 9/11. Quit being stupid.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:50 AM   #99
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We know you're tying to keep Bengazi alive for when Hillary runs, but guess what, no one is going to give a **** about it then either. A bunch of people in the middle east are insane... get it? They went nuts and blew up a ****in embassy. Same shit different day!

Trying to pin it on anyone in particular is getting you nowhere and will continue to get you nowhere.

You're just angry, bitter, paranoid, aholes and trying to find another issue to bitch about, like usual of course.
oh blow it out your ass...for years you and others whined and cried EVERY ****ING DAY during the Iraq war.


and you''ll talk about sarah palin till the cows come home..but hey, four people died in libya? who doesn't care?...liberal hypocritical assholes.

..

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Old 05-08-2013, 08:52 AM   #100
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Benghazi (II): A military analysis of the Fox mystery man's fantasy rescue plan

By Billy Birdzell
Best Defense guest columnist

On April 30, 2013, Fox News aired an interview with a supposed member of U.S. Special Operations Command who said that members of "C-110," who were training in Croatia on September 11, 2012, could have both arrived at the Benghazi consulate in 4-6 hours and arrived before the second attack on the annex during which Tyronne Woods and Glen Doherty were killed.

The mystery man critiques the Obama administration's decision-making, yet offers no information as to how C-110 would have influenced the battle in such a way that the outcome would have been different. Perhaps because it was actually impossible for C-110 to arrive before the attack, and if they did, they would not have been able to do anything that would have prevented our heroes, Woods and Doherty, from being killed.

"C-110" stands for Charlie Company, 1st Battalion, 10th Special Forces Group. It is a unique company within the 10th SF Group in that it is trained as a Commander's in-Extremis Force (CIF). Each of the five active duty SF Groups has a CIF and they respond to important threats within their geographic area which are below the threshold for, or availability of, elements from the Joint Special Operations Command (like the Delta Force). A CIF has approximately 40 operators.

According to the Pentagon timeline posted by CNN, the enemy attack began at 2142 and all US personnel were out of the consulate by 2330. By 2330, Ambassador Christopher Stevens and the foreign service information officer, Sean Smith, were dead. President Obama was briefed at 2300 and SOF were approved to launch from Croatia (C-110) and the United States (Delta Force) at 0239 and 0253 respectively. At 0515, the attack began against the annex. Doherty and Woods were killed by mortar fire shortly thereafter.

Obama gave the launch order at 0239. The mystery operator said 4-6 hours. That's 0639-0839. Woods and Doherty died at 0515. An Air Force C-17 was evacuating personnel from the Benghazi airport at 0740. Mystery man and Fox News can't add. Strike one.

For argument's sake, assume Obama gave the launch order 10 minutes after he met with General Dempsey and Secretary Panetta at 2300. Four to six hours turns into 0310-0510. Six hours, however, would have been impossible.

If the Commander of European Command coordinated with his counterpart in Africa Command as soon as the National Command Center informed General Dempsey at 2230 and they diverted a C-17 to Croatia in anticipation, it is still highly unlikely the plane would have been on the ground in Croatia before midnight; it takes an hour to fly to Croatia from Germany and a crew would have had to have gotten ready, briefed, examined contingency plans, and fueled the plane. From Zaton Military Airport in Croatia, it is over 900 miles to Benghazi, which would have taken approximately two hours in a C-17 cargo plane. Zaton is on the coast and it more likely the CIF would have flown out of Udbina Airport, but this is a best case scenario.

Assuming the Air Force was willing to land a C-17 at the Benghazi airport with an unknown security situation, once on the ground, the 40-man CIF would have then had to have moved to the annex which was 30 km away. Moving such a far distance would have required vehicles. 40 operators can move in 8 HMMWVs, which can fit into one C-17. However, did they have the vehicles with them? Did they have everything on the training mission that they needed to go into combat? If not, it would have taken more time for someone to get everything ready. Maybe the man of mystery is creative and planned on renting cars from Avis (yes, Avis has a location at the Benghazi Airport) and using stealth to get to the consulate in a move akin to the French using taxis to get to the front in order to stop the Kaiser's hordes back in 1914. Mystery man is really a cook who has never been on a deployment. Strike two.

Even if one of them had Avis First and the cars were waiting on the runway, the timing would have been iffy. Parachuting would have been another option. There is a large, open field close to the U.S. consulate at the southwest intersection of Third Ring Road and Shan Al-Andulus Road that could have accommodated the CIF. However, one is defenseless while parachuting, so it is a good idea to insert a good distance from the action to ensure one is not shot before his boots hit the ground. The Benghazi Zoo is only 3 miles from the consulate and the combination of trees and animal cages would have provided good cover, as well as entertainment, in case someone saw 40 people parachuting into the middle of the city.

Assuming magical planes were waiting for the CIF and they were somehow able to physically get to the annex before 0515, mystery man failed to mention that Doherty and Woods were killed by mortar fire. Forty operators armed with rifles and light-machine guns can neither stop mortar rounds nor determine from where the mortar is being fired. The only thing the CIF would have done had they gotten to the annex before 0515 is created more targets and overcrowded the consulate.

Even if the CIF was on ready 5 (fully armed, sitting in the aircraft with pilots at the controls) in Sigonella (the closest European base to Benghazi) with advanced warning of an attack but unsure of the time, and they launched at 2232 on only-in-Hollywood orders from someone other than the president, they would not have been able to do anything about Stevens and Smith's deaths, nor stopped the mortar rounds. Strike three.

The person in the interview is a clown and I am incredibly disappointed in the news for not using Google.

Billy Birdzell served as a U.S. Marine Corps infantry officer and special operations team leader from 2001 to 2009
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:05 AM   #101
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JFC they didn't let anybody die and to suggest that is just as retarded as people thinking Bush let 3000 Americans die on 9/11. Quit being stupid.
No wonder you don't think this is a big deal. Do you get all your news from Jay Carney?
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:19 AM   #102
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JFC they didn't let anybody die and to suggest that is just as retarded as people thinking Bush let 3000 Americans die on 9/11. Quit being stupid.
They sure as hell did let them die. Support was requested long before the attack took place and those requests fell on deaf ears. The only way this is like 9/11 is that it took place 9/11 2012 and there should have been more security in place AS REQUESTED.

Do you honestly think US personnel in the region will accept the answer that "we didn't think we would make it there in time to help so we didn't even try"? That's just not the way it works.

Then to try to sell everyone that this was a spontaneous mob action resulting from a video. Shits going down today and anyone defending the “inaction” or failure to respond and the cover up are despicable.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:40 AM   #103
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Can you imagine how this all looks to AL Queda? They attack the American Embassy and no help is sent. So, they attack again and sustain the attack until the Embassy is overrun. Then instead of defending against an expected military response the White House tells the world this was just a mob action in protest to some video nobody has seen made by a nobody in California. Then the White House goes after the nobody. Al Queda has to feel like the White House is working for them.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:52 AM   #104
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:44 AM   #105
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This proves my point in that you're really in a minority and this actually insignificant, politically speaking. Yeah, a few loud wingers are in a froth about it, everyone else knows a bunch of crazy Muslims attacked an embassy. Romney tried to make political hay with it and the voters didn't care, Hillary's opponent will try again in 2016 and it will fail again. It is simply not the big deal you nutters have tried to make it out to be.
Proves your point? How does anything I've posted prove your point? You haven't proven anything except that you're a dyed in the wool liberal...who doesn't give this any priority because you don't want it to be important.

Until we ALL start holding our political leaders to some kind of standard, we're going to continue to end up with the same kind of pathetic leadership this country has been and will be suffering from for quite some time.

Conservatives on this board admit all the time that George Bush made mistakes and that he could have been a much better president. I have yet to see you or any other liberal on this board be as intellectually honest, especially about Obama...it's just "circle the wagons" as usual. People like you are the problem with this country whether you think you're in the "majority" or not. Try to stop spewing your nasty little remarks and think about things for a minute...you might have an epiphany.
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