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Old 05-08-2013, 09:08 PM  
houstonwhodat houstonwhodat is offline
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Singer Lauryn Hill Blames Slavery For Not Paying Her Taxes

It never ends does it?

http://hiphopwired.com/2013/05/08/la...es-on-slavery/

“I am a child of former slaves who had a system imposed on them,” the New Jersey native told U.S. Magistrate Madeline Cox Arleo.“I had an economic system imposed on me. Someone did the math, and it came to around $600 million. And I sit here before you trying to figure out how to pay a tax debt?”
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:36 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by the_spatula View Post
PREFACE: I do not agree with Lauryn Hill's reparations excuse for not paying taxes, HOWEVER...

I think the average (white) citizens of our society sometimes lack perspective when it comes to the history of African Americans in our country.

1787: the Constitution of the United States is drafted. The 3/5 Compromise declares that black slaves are considered 3/5 of a person to help bolster voting bloc in southern US.

1870: 15th amendment passes giving blacks citizenship/right to vote.

*This means that less than 150 (only 5 generations ago) years ago blacks WERE NOT EVEN CONSIDERED PEOPLE BY OUR CONSTITUTION (they were 3/5 of a person - which is insanely dehumanizing, dudes).

1880s - 1960s: Much of the United States is hell-bent on keeping blacks out of mainstream society. Jim Crow laws are adopted, Plessy v Ferguson (separate but equal) rules, Ku Klux Klan forms up, etc.

WE ARE ONLY TWO GENERATIONS REMOVED THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT (many of us were raised by parents who were raised in a systematically [and socially accepted] racist world).

If you don't believe that blacks have been systematically disadvantaged throughout the VAST majority of our nation's history then you do not know your history.

It takes time to overcome all of those things. Racism is still alive and well in our country (as has been repeatedly proven on this board). We have come a long way as a society, but there are still a lot of demons from our nation's past that need to be exorcised.
Insightful historical analysis.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:38 PM   #152
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As does just about everyone else.

Here's the problem - it's been tried. Over and over and over again it's been tried. Magnet schools, minority scholarships, huge education grants to predominantly minority schools, funding formula modifications, on and on and on.

The government has done a TON to try to get more education to disenfranchised minorities but the problem is that oftentimes the family simply does not do their part in it.

"Provide education" is always the easy answer, but it presupposes that the government hasn't tried to do exactly that. They most certainly have and at some point, the black community has to take ownership of the fact that they have very frequently pissed those opportunities away.
You're being too impatient. Remember where this country was just two generations ago.

I think those government initiatives toward the education of minorities are working. Things are improving and will continue to do so as long as they are in place.

Things don't change over night. Let this play out, man. It IS working.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:39 PM   #153
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:41 PM   #154
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:41 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by houstonwhodat View Post
It never ends does it?

Lauryn Hill Blames Slavery For Not Paying Her Taxes
Doesn't Lauryn Hill realize that slavery was necessary to teach black folks discipline and give them work skills?

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Old 05-09-2013, 01:43 PM   #156
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I would hope not. But I guess I don't see what slavery and racism has to do with the Blacks fathers' decisions to not take care of their kids.
Can you offer a reason as to why we don't see it in our society on Mars, but we see it here?
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:45 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by the_spatula View Post
I would like both of you to answer this one question, right now. Yes or no. Nothing else. Just YES or NO.

If a brand new society was started on Mars using the DNA of blacks and whites to create the children that would make up this brand new society (obviously, everybody in the society starts on completely equal footing). Do you think (generations down the road) that blacks would commit a statistically significant more amount of the crime there?

YES or NO
NO

DUhr

unless of course there is some kind of genetic predisposition - after all there is genetic predisposition to make dudes like other dudes

reparations and affirmative action don't fix the problem NOW though

generations of blacks need to unlearn destructive behavior and generations of whites need to unlearn their racist/whatever behavior
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:52 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
NO

DUhr

unless of course there is some kind of genetic predisposition - after all there is genetic predisposition to make dudes like other dudes

reparations and affirmative action don't fix the problem NOW though

generations of blacks need to unlearn destructive behavior and generations of whites need to unlearn their racist/whatever behavior
...and I definitely agree with you.

However, there were a few people in this thread that were getting carried away with the idea that believing in a need for reparations makes a person "crazy". It is not crazy. But, it is also not the answer (which you have pointed out).

Government initiatives to further the education of minorities have a much more lasting benefit (as was pointed out by another poster).
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by the_spatula View Post
Can you offer a reason as to why we don't see it in our society on Mars, but we see it here?
Sure, but let's see why you think it is here first.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:04 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by exterminator View Post
It's the white man's fault because they're in prison?
Specifically, the judge and prosecutor, who, statistically, are likely to be white.

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A new academic study of 58,000 federal criminal cases has found significant disparities in sentencing for blacks and whites arrested for the same crimes. The research led to the conclusion that African-Americans’ jail time was almost 60% longer than white sentences.

According to M. Marit Rehavi of the University of British Columbia and Sonja B. Starr, who teaches criminal law at the University of Michigan Law School, the racial disparities can be explained “in a single prosecutorial decision: whether to file a charge carrying a mandatory minimum sentence….Black men were on average more than twice as likely to face a mandatory minimum charge as white men were, holding arrest offense as well as age and location constant.” Prosecutors are about twice as likely to impose mandatory minimums on black defendants as on white defendants.

In federal cases, black defendants faced average sentences of 60 months, while the average for white defendants was only 38 months.
http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stori...es?news=843984
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:05 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by the_spatula View Post
You're being too impatient. Remember where this country was just two generations ago.

I think those government initiatives toward the education of minorities are working. Things are improving and will continue to do so as long as they are in place.

Things don't change over night. Let this play out, man. It IS working.
I'm not the one saying I shouldn't have to pay my taxes because of slavery.

I have no problem with us continuing programs like magnet schools, etc...; I think there's a great deal of promise in them.

However, bullshit attitudes like Hill's stand in the way of that progress, as does the continuing decline of family bonds within the black community. The unbelievably high rate of unwed single mothers among young black women has nothing to do with 'the system'.

And it's going to be what keeps any of that progress from being more than drops in the ocean.

No amount of government intervention will act as a viable substitute for parenting and a stable family. Right now it sure looks like there is very little value placed on those things within the black community. You're just building on sand.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:07 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Doesn't Lauryn Hill realize that slavery was necessary to teach black folks discipline and give them work skills?

/BEP aka BucEyedPea


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Old 05-09-2013, 02:08 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Specifically, the judge and prosecutor, who, statistically, are likely to be white.



http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stori...es?news=843984
That's interesting. Does it take into account the possibility of repeat offenders?
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:14 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_spatula View Post
I would like both of you to answer this one question, right now. Yes or no. Nothing else. Just YES or NO.

If a brand new society was started on Mars using the DNA of blacks and whites to create the children that would make up this brand new society (obviously, everybody in the society starts on completely equal footing). Do you think (generations down the road) that blacks would commit a statistically significant more amount of the crime there?

YES or NO
Unless you're a trained genetics expert, your answer here means precisely dick.

Oh sure, we can try to take the kind, cuddly approach to it and say "well hell no!" but what the hell do I know?

Whites are more genetically predisposed to certain diseases and physical maladies. Blacks are more predisposed to others. There are physical distinctions as well.

There might be behavioral or cognitive distinctions as well. I don't know. I don't claim to know - I know exactly jack shit about the biological makeup of the respective races.

Which is why your question is clearly little more than a trap question. None of us are even remotely qualified to answer it. Everyone knows the answer they should give, but their basis for giving it is based on...well nothing really.

Personally, I think if you dropped 100,000 black babies on Mars and 100,000 white babies on Mars, after several generations you'd see some kind of split in where they excelled and did not. I don't think there would be a predisposition towards criminal conduct, no. I don't know what the differences would be - but I'm confident there would be quite a few of them.

I also don't think that's terribly relevant to this discussion. I don't think biology is the problem in this instance.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:19 PM   #165
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That's interesting. Does it take into account the possibility of repeat offenders?
Don't know. But it stands to reason that if blacks are stopped and searched more frequently than whites (3x as likely) and arrested at higher rates (think this is also true), that would result in more priors for the judge to consider at sentencing.

It'd be a snowball effect.
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