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Old 05-13-2013, 06:53 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Monsanto success with court

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2116333
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:19 AM   #16
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
Monsanto has plenty of competition....Pioneer, Syngenta, Bayer and hundreds of independents. Not Monsanto's fault that their research, field results, yields etc., knock the competiton out.
No. Google says its a monopoly.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
Monsanto has plenty of competition....Pioneer, Syngenta, Bayer and hundreds of independents. Not Monsanto's fault that their research, field results, yields etc., knock the competiton out.
Monsanto symbolizes everything that's right about America.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:12 AM   #18
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How about if you don't think they are a monopoly, you provide something substantial as proof? I bet if you do, it'll be something from the internet!
Because I don't really have the energy to explain the legal and economic nuances of the issue here. Yes, by virtue of a patent they have a monopoly. That's by design.

And sure, I could point to citations that are from the Internet, but I wouldn't be giving them credence based on their search engine optimization.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:40 AM   #19
jiveturkey jiveturkey is offline
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I'm pretty anti-Monsanto (or any GMO company) but this case looked to be cut and dry. One farmer rolled the dice with a patented seed and he lost.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:55 AM   #20
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:14 PM   #21
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Ok so after some sleep I read more into this and holy **** - the left can't help but find a way to **** everything up! So with this ruling, if a seed falls on the ground and a plant grows, you either pay for that "duplicate / genetic copy" or kill the plant?!?

Two words.... **** THAT!

If Monsanto wants to spend the money to make these genetically altered seeds, then they should do so for their own benefit alone - if they sell it, it is out of their hands. WTF is next? Someone will own the rights to "genetic copies" of your family dogs? Children?

Stupid shit is stupid - go figure Kagan ruled on this... Her short-sightedness ( or wanton destruction ) knows no bounds.
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:59 PM   #22
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Looks like you need some more sleep and some more reading time. Hell, HCF gave you an article from USA Today which is one step above Highlights for Kids. Luckily your ignorance coincides with my curiosity so I'll save you some time.

Here's what you ended up concluding:

Quote:
So with this ruling, if a seed falls on the ground and a plant grows, you either pay for that "duplicate / genetic copy" or kill the plant?!?
Here's what the article says that this guy did:

Quote:
After one year of going through Monsanto, he bought his second crop from a grain elevator. Then he used his own soybeans that resisted Roundup in future years -- in essence, the court said, making copies of a patented invention.
See the difference there? He bought Roundup Ready beans and then reused seed in violation of the agreement he signed when he bought them first from Monsanto and again when he bought Roundup Ready beans from the elevator.

Here's a better explanation from Cornell Law School which was written by law students instead of some hack at USA Today that doesn't even have the courtesy to link to the actual decision.

Quote:
Vernon Hugh Bowman purchased seeds from Pioneer, a registered seed producer of Monsanto. As required by Monsanto, Pioneer had Bowman sign an agreement identical to Monsanto’s Technology Agreement, which limited the use of the seeds to a single season. Monsanto also sent Bowman a letter directly, which notified Bowman that he could not replant any form of Monsanto’s herbicide resistant seeds. Bowman regularly purchased seeds from Pioneer but one year, after harvesting the seeds purchased from Pioneer, Bowman also bought seeds from a local commodity seed provider and planted a second crop. Finding that the majority of seeds purchased from the local provider were herbicide resistant, Bowman also treated them with herbicide. Bowman continued to purchase Pioneer seeds for his first crop and harvested seeds from his second crops to use to replant his second crop the next year. In 2006, Monsanto became aware of Bowman’s planting practices and investigated his use of herbicide resistant seeds. Upon confirmation that Bowman’s second crops, grown from second-generation and commodity seeds, displayed herbicide resistance, Monsanto sued him for patent infringement.

The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit found that Monsanto’s patent rights in the seeds were not exhausted once sold to a commodity dealer. The Federal Circuit further reasoned that although Monsanto’s patented technology can replicate itself, a buyer cannot use the product of replication because it would eliminate Monsanto’s patent rights. The court concluded that Bowman retained the right to sell second-generation seeds as feed or for any other number of uses, but he was prohibited from replanting them in any form. The court deemed that Monsanto was entitled to damages for patent infringement.
- Here's the source and some additional analysis.

Quote:
If Monsanto wants to spend the money to make these genetically altered seeds, then they should do so for their own benefit alone - if they sell it, it is out of their hands.
I suspect that this was unintentionally insightful and pertinent to the other comment about Monsanto having a monopoly. To the insightful point, this is the question that was presented to the court and they ruled that their genetic traits are not completely out of their hands once they license it to a purchaser who reuses seeds. This is pertenant to the comment about monopolies because if Monsanto did what you are suggesting (owning the operation from engineering of the seeds through sale to the end user) then they're closer to a vertical monopoly. Think "owning the mining company, steel company and the railroad" kind of monopoly instead of the "we've got the market cornered on this product so we'll jack prices beyond predatory levels" monopoly.

But I digress...back to your small minded and uninformed comments.

Quote:
the left can't help but find a way to **** everything up!
and this

Quote:
go figure Kagan ruled on this...
You do know that there are nine justices on the supreme court...all of whom contribute to the way the case ends up...right? You do know that one justice writes the majority opinion..right? That means that all nine of the justices including Thomas and Scalia agreed with this outcome...right? For that matter, not a single justice took enough issue with Kagen's opinion that they wanted to write a concurrence.

A 9-0 ruling in any direction is a complete bipartisan smackdown of whatever argument was put forth by the loser. Plain and simple.

Is this a ringing endorsement by myself or the court of the general practices of targeting farmers for lawsuits when they unintentionally end up with GMO plants because of the trait being transferred via pollination or when they buy from a seed supplier who isn't properly separating GMO from non-GMO seed? Hell no.

This is merely the first case to hit the supreme court on this issue which has been discussed in agricultural and legal circles since the mid-90's. The more contentious cases will be those that filter their way up through the process in years to come.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:41 PM   #23
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I have to agree with the court here. This isn't a case of cross pollination or the seeds drifting on to Bowman's land. If that were the case, Monsanto wouldn't have any standing since the farmer didn't know or intentionally try to reuse their product.

What Bowman did was buy seeds from a grain elevator betting that most of them were roundup ready, sprayed roundup to eliminate the ones that weren't and then replanting the surviving plants seeds. He intentionally was selecting plants that had the roundup ready genetic engineering.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:14 PM   #24
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can a farmer explain to me why they couldn't get heirloom or non-monsanto seeds and do what this guy wanted to do without ripping off monsanto?

I'm a layman, and just curious why more people dont cut them out of the picture, considering the amount of whining
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:11 PM   #25
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveNull View Post
Look everyone, I'm a stupid mother****er who has no reading comprehension!
It's called setting a precedence, dumbass. And a really ****ed up one at that, like the example I lead off with - that's the possible consequence of this ruling, that Kagan had to be wetting herself to get to deliver / write. Does that spell everything out enough for you, or do you need an adult to hold your hand while explaining it to you with crayon drawn pictures?
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
It's called setting a precedence, dumbass. And a really ****ed up one at that, like the example I lead off with - that's the possible consequence of this ruling, that Kagan had to be wetting herself to get to deliver / write. Does that spell everything out enough for you, or do you need an adult to hold your hand while explaining it to you with crayon drawn pictures?
Would you mind picking up the dictionary while you're up?

Quote:
prec·e·dent
/ˈpresid(ə)nt/
Noun
An earlier event or action regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.

Quote:
prec·e·dence
/ˈpresədəns/
Noun
The condition of being considered more important than someone or something else; priority in rank.

The order to be observed by people of different rank, according to an acknowledged or legally determined system.
But please. Go on.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:33 AM   #27
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:19 AM   #28
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
can a farmer explain to me why they couldn't get heirloom or non-monsanto seeds and do what this guy wanted to do without ripping off monsanto?

I'm a layman, and just curious why more people dont cut them out of the picture, considering the amount of whining
They can. Many do. The Non roundup ready beans are grown like all were prior to the technology becoming available.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:41 AM   #29
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveNull View Post
Would you mind picking up the dictionary while you're up?

But please. Go on.
So the best you've got is the wrong word from autocomplete... got ya....
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:36 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
It's called setting a precedence, dumbass. And a really ****ed up one at that, like the example I lead off with - that's the possible consequence of this ruling, that Kagan had to be wetting herself to get to deliver / write. Does that spell everything out enough for you, or do you need an adult to hold your hand while explaining it to you with crayon drawn pictures?
It was a unanimous decision, dumbass. Thomas, Scalia, Alito, etc all agreed with her opinion 100% and signed on in full.
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