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Old 01-25-2013, 05:27 PM  
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***OFFICIAL*** 2013 STL Cardinals Thread

From Bernie's column:

People have asked me why we’re not more emotional,” Matheny said in his office after Sunday’s game. “They say that we look subdued, always intense. That our actions are methodical, robotic at times. That’s what got us here. This isn’t the time to change it.”

It’s hard to argue with the manager’s assessment. The Cardinals finished with 97 victories, most by a Cards team since 2005, and tied with Boston for No. 1 in the majors this year.


Their 54-27 showing at Busch Stadium matches the 1985 team for the best single-season home winning percentage (.667) by the Cardinals since 1944.

A postseason theme has emerged, and it echoes the mantra that surfaced before the start of 2013: remember the fall of 2012. Remember falling to San Francisco in the NLCS.


The Cardinals’ veterans still haven’t forgotten. They still aren’t over it. It’s why Matheny resists GM John Mozeliak’s urgings to smile and put on a happier face.


Here's the most impressive aspect of the Cardinals' division championship: they prevailed over two other outstanding teams, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.



The 97-win Cardinals were better this year (regular season) than they were in 2011, when they won 90 games, and 2012, when they won 88.
Here are a few numbers that help put the Cardinals' Central title and No. 1 NL seed in perspective:



* Since MLB switched to a three-division format in each league in 1994, this was only the sixth time that a division had three 90-plus win teams. St. Louis won 97, Pittsburgh 94, and Cincinnati 90.
* Since the format change, this was only the second time that an NL division had three 90-win teams. In 2002 the NL West had Arizona (98 wins), San Francisco (95) and Los Angeles (92).
* The 2013 Cardinals faced more esteemed and difficult competition at the top of the division than any of the division-winning teams managed by Tony La Russa.

The Pirates were hardly pushovers; the Cardinals had to work like mad and kick in with a strong finish to put the division away, and didn't clinch until Game No. 160.



The Cardinals went 9-10 against Pittsburgh this season and were 11-8 vs. Cincinnati.


The Cardinals won only three of 10 games at PNC Park in Pittsburgh and split the 10 games at Cincinnati. The Cardinals were 6-3 against both teams at Busch Stadium.


The Cardinals (1st), Pirates (3rd) and Reds (5th) ranked among the top five in wins in the NL. The three teams were among the top 11 in wins in MLB. All three teams finished in the top five in the majors for best overall ERA, and each were in the top five MLB for best starting-pitching ERA.


The original purpose to this piece was to point out that the Cardinals managed to finish with the league's best record while competing in a division that had three 90-win teams for only the second time in the last 19 years of National League baseball.



The Cardinals really earned this.
Thanks for reading ...
— Bernie

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Old 05-13-2013, 09:57 PM   #721
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Literally one of the most ignorant baseball posts ever.

Go look at the Royals' payroll when they were competitive. Look at the size of the KC MSA compared to St. Louis.
Hilarious. The Cards are in the top 5 of ticket revenue and have the highest tv ratings of any baseball team in MLB. Their loyal fans make up for their small MSA. They earned $239m in revenue to KC at $169.
http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/


The Royals get a ton of revenue sharing that gets them to that figure anyway. Nobody woul choose to have a team in KC over STL
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:07 PM   #722
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Hilarious. The Cards are in the top 5 of ticket revenue and have the highest tv ratings of any baseball team in MLB. Their loyal fans make up for their small MSA. They earned $239m in revenue to KC at $169.
http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/


The Royals get a ton of revenue sharing that gets them to that figure anyway. Nobody woul choose to have a team in KC over STL
They're also on a small Fox Sports deal. It's not like they own a network like NESN or YES!.

You're unsuccessful because your ownership is cheap and stupid. Tampa can field better teams with a payroll 2/3 of yours.

If you want to look at why the Royals aren't successful look at their inability to develop talent consistently and maintain the talent that does develop.

The Cardinals bring in tens of millions less than the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies, yet have had more success over the last ten years than all of them. They bring in less than the Cubs, who have $100 million more than the Royals, but are a worse franchise. They bring in the same as the Mets.

It's just another bullshit excuse. Eighty thousand people didn't have problems forking out hundreds to thousands every year to go to Chiefs games in the same parking lot, but 35 thousand can't afford tickets that are 10% of the cost?
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:17 PM   #723
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When Ewing Kauffman was the owner of the Royals and the brewery was taking a machete to the team in the 70s, how many people do you think would rather have had a team in St. Louis?

When the Royals were innovators in signing and developing cost-controlled talent they were one of the model organizations in baseball. When they turned the organization into a welfare check for ownership they sucked.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:37 AM   #724
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They're also on a small Fox Sports deal. It's not like they own a network like NESN or YES!.

You're unsuccessful because your ownership is cheap and stupid. Tampa can field better teams with a payroll 2/3 of yours.

If you want to look at why the Royals aren't successful look at their inability to develop talent consistently and maintain the talent that does develop.

The Cardinals bring in tens of millions less than the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies, yet have had more success over the last ten years than all of them. They bring in less than the Cubs, who have $100 million more than the Royals, but are a worse franchise. They bring in the same as the Mets.

It's just another bullshit excuse. Eighty thousand people didn't have problems forking out hundreds to thousands every year to go to Chiefs games in the same parking lot, but 35 thousand can't afford tickets that are 10% of the cost?

OK then, by this logic Columbia MO is the same size Lawrence KS is. Ergo Mizzou should be the same baskeball market that Kansas is. Oh and they used to outrdraw Kansas in the early 80s when they were winning the Big 8 and Kansas was struggling. Proved my point right?



Cards tv deal is only small right now because they signed it early. When it comes up for renewal they'll get a good bump. I'll bet you any amount you have in the bank it will be significantly higher than what hte Royals get.



The Chiefs are a bad example because we've always struggled at the gate, save for a 10-year period with Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith. When you remove that time period, the other 40 years has been a real uphill battle to draw fans. STL Rams sold out with Warner & Faulk. Winning begets winning. And it's way easier to do in STL where there are more resources. $75m extra to spend on payroll matters and saying it doesn't is nonsense.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:45 AM   #725
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Hamas is spot on.

The Royals have failed because of incompetence. Nothing more, nothing less.

The Cubs have spent millions on failure. It's not what you spend, it's how you spend what you can.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:05 AM   #726
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
When Ewing Kauffman was the owner of the Royals and the brewery was taking a machete to the team in the 70s, how many people do you think would rather have had a team in St. Louis?

When the Royals were innovators in signing and developing cost-controlled talent they were one of the model organizations in baseball. When they turned the organization into a welfare check for ownership they sucked.
This is spot on.

I have no doubt that if Kauffmann were still alive today (or had he survived into the early 2000s), the Royals would have been one of the teams at the forefront of the SABRE movement.

Royals leadership has been incredibly poor for most of the 90s and 2000s. Dayton Moore has been successful in many ways and had some significant failures as well, but no one can argue that he has been successful in getting the Glasses to open the wallets for amateur talent and increase the payroll of the major league roster. Both used to be a joke (Marlins-esque) and are at least respectable now.

Now, I'm going to sit back and watch you verbally eviscerate PB in this thread. Where's my popcorn?
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:06 AM   #727
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Hamas is spot on.

The Royals have failed because of incompetence. Nothing more, nothing less.

The Cubs have spent millions on failure. It's not what you spend, it's how you spend what you can.
You have to be intentionally blind or ignorant to not understand this.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:33 PM   #728
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You have to be intentionally blind or ignorant to not understand this.
You were looking in Prison Bitch's general direction when you posted this weren't you.
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:53 PM   #729
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OK then, by this logic Columbia MO is the same size Lawrence KS is. Ergo Mizzou should be the same baskeball market that Kansas is. Oh and they used to outrdraw Kansas in the early 80s when they were winning the Big 8 and Kansas was struggling. Proved my point right?



Cards tv deal is only small right now because they signed it early. When it comes up for renewal they'll get a good bump. I'll bet you any amount you have in the bank it will be significantly higher than what hte Royals get.



The Chiefs are a bad example because we've always struggled at the gate, save for a 10-year period with Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith. When you remove that time period, the other 40 years has been a real uphill battle to draw fans. STL Rams sold out with Warner & Faulk. Winning begets winning. And it's way easier to do in STL where there are more resources. $75m extra to spend on payroll matters and saying it doesn't is nonsense.
Just cut your losses here pal. Hamas will only own you worse.
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:05 PM   #730
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This is spot on.

I have no doubt that if Kauffmann were still alive today (or had he survived into the early 2000s), the Royals would have been one of the teams at the forefront of the SABRE movement.

Royals leadership has been incredibly poor for most of the 90s and 2000s. Dayton Moore has been successful in many ways and had some significant failures as well, but no one can argue that he has been successful in getting the Glasses to open the wallets for amateur talent and increase the payroll of the major league roster. Both used to be a joke (Marlins-esque) and are at least respectable now.

Now, I'm going to sit back and watch you verbally eviscerate PB in this thread. Where's my popcorn?
You guys should be doing what the Cardinals are doing in the minor league and draft. We consistently draft in a worse position than KC but the results couldn't be any different.

Throw out player evaluations and development of players.
  • KC should have a seamless transition from the minors to the majors. The Cardinals have a book called the "Cardinals Way". Its used to teach players the same way to play baseball from Single "A" all the way up to the majors.
  • The minor league coaches teach the same thing as the major league coaches.
  • They give the minor league's plenty of playing time in spring training. The minor leaguers get to the majors, they know the major league players, they have shared a locker room, they already know how to conduct themselfs.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:03 PM   #731
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OK then, by this logic Columbia MO is the same size Lawrence KS is. Ergo Mizzou should be the same baskeball market that Kansas is. Oh and they used to outrdraw Kansas in the early 80s when they were winning the Big 8 and Kansas was struggling. Proved my point right?



Cards tv deal is only small right now because they signed it early. When it comes up for renewal they'll get a good bump. I'll bet you any amount you have in the bank it will be significantly higher than what hte Royals get.



The Chiefs are a bad example because we've always struggled at the gate, save for a 10-year period with Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith. When you remove that time period, the other 40 years has been a real uphill battle to draw fans. STL Rams sold out with Warner & Faulk. Winning begets winning. And it's way easier to do in STL where there are more resources. $75m extra to spend on payroll matters and saying it doesn't is nonsense.
If winning begets winning then the Royals wouldn't have been in this 25 year slump, dumbass. The Pirates would have also continued to run through the old NL East, and the Yankees would have never faltered even as the core four aged.

If you want to win in baseball, you need a few things: the first is a good owner. That means someone who is engaged, willing to spend but not overspend, someone who is patient but requires standards. The second thing you need is a good development system and the final is a good scouting system.

The Cardinals have all three. The Royals used to. The Yankees were fortunate enough to have it for a few years when Steinbrenner was banned from baseball, which is what allowed them to build the team that won 4/5 titles.

Right now the Royals don't have much of any of that. Like the Angels from a few years ago most of their prospects are extremely overrated. I'm not sure why that is; perhaps it's due to the national influence of Royals fans like Rob Neyer and Rany, although I doubt it. It's not a coincidence that there hasn't been a single Royals hitting prospect who hasn't disappointed when promoted to the big league club in at least five years, probably longer. Hell, Aviles is the last over-performer I can remember.

The Royals can't develop talent from within their system. Because of that, it probably appears that they can't draft. I think there is an element of truth to that (Hochevar, and a few others to lesser degrees), but it's hard to tell because a lot of that falls on the player development side.

Obviously, they Royals have spent little over the last two decades, but Kansas City has shown that they'll support a winner. Arrowhead was a ghost town in the 80s and then it became nearly impossible to get STs in the 90s. Did the nature of sports fans change in KC, or are they willing to support teams that appear competitive? KC had great attendance in the 70s and 80s. The town just didn't start hating baseball. The Chiefs are the perfect example.

If you put Tampa's org in Kansas City they'd draw 2.5 million fans a year.

Ultimately, you're looking for excuses that make it easier to sleep, b/c the assumption that St. Louis has all of these ingrained advantages is just a fantasy. The Cardinals have more success than the Royals because they have better ownership, and that ownership has built a better franchise. There isn't a regional or financial roadblock, and there is no such thing as a small market team, only small market owners.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:58 PM   #732
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Wow, Gast picked a good night for a MLB debut.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:14 PM   #733
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Wow, Gast picked a good night for a MLB debut.
Cardinals hitters to Met pitching:

Yo' wife is my baby momma/
God Damn, Mother****a/
She's a...good dick sucka'
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:14 PM   #734
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Wow, Gast picked a good night for a MLB debut.
I'm noticing a trend. How many times did a Larussa coached team play down to its opponents talent?

No research to back up this opinion. It just seems to me that Matheny coached teams take care of business better than Larussa teams. Although they do share the same affinity for just winning series's instead of going for the sweep.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:19 PM   #735
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Cardinals hitters to Met pitching(w/o Hardy):

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She's a...good dick sucka'
FYP
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