Obama The day the Obama administration went all Nixon on us - Page 4

Taco John · 05-15-2013, 12:07 AM

The day the Obama administration went all Nixon on us

Attytood spoiler: That day was May 7, 2012...but first a quick history lesson.

Sigh...I know, I know, I write too much about the late 1960s and early 1970s, but this time it's really important. Because today that is the rallying cry for any presidential scandal, that this one is "worse than Watergate." But the Watergate break-in happened 41 years ago, which means that more than half of all Americans weren't even born yet, so you can't blame a lot of voters if they don't know much about what Watergate and the related scandals of Richard Milhous Nixon were all about.

One of the biggest drivers of Watergate was the seemingly unending war in Vietnam. As opposition increased to a foreign war that ultimately killed 58,000 Americans, for goals that were murky at best, so did government paranoia. At the core of Watergate was a team of shady operatives that were nicknamed "the White House Plumbers" -- because they went after news leaks...get it? In May 1969, after news reports about U.S. bombing activities in Cambodia, Nixon and his then-national security adviser Henry Kissinger enlisted J. Edgar Hoover's FBI to wiretap journalists and national security aides.

Later, one of the worst governmental abuses occurred after whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg leaked the massive Pentagon Papers that exposed governmental lies about the conduct of the war in Vietnam. Nixon's "Plumbers" broke into the office of Ellsberg's psychiatrist to dig up dirt to discredit him. Here is what one of Nixon's former aides, Egil Krogh, wrote about it in 2007:

The premise of our action was the strongly held view within certain precincts of the White House that the president and those functioning on his behalf could carry out illegal acts with impunity if they were convinced that the nation’s security demanded it. As President Nixon himself said to David Frost during an interview six years later, “When the president does it, that means it is not illegal.” To this day the implications of this statement are staggering.

No doubt. Luckily for America, not everyone agreed. Over the next couple of years, criminal charges against Ellsberg were tossed because of the government's misconduct, and Nixon resigned facing certain impeachment over the activities of his Plumbers and the ensuing, elaborate cover-up. The nation mostly rejoiced. The system worked...for a while.

Flash forward to 2012. America had at that point been in an undefined "war on terror" for 11 years -- the same amount of time from the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident that greatly expanded the Vietnam War to the 1975 fall of Saigon. Just as during the 1960s and early 1970s, this terror war had provided government with an excuse to greatly expand its domestic spying on American citizens -- some of that through a law called the Patriot Act and some of it even more dubious, constitutionally.

Then, on May 7, 2012, the Associated Press published an article about the Obama administration's conduct of its war in a country that we'd never declared war on (it was Cambodia in 1969, but Yemen in 2012) and Obama's Justice Department -- for reasons not yet fully known -- went crazy over the leak. This, then, is a reminder of why history matters so much.

Because if we're not careful...it repeats:

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Justice Department secretly obtained two months of telephone records of reporters and editors for The Associated Press in what the news cooperative's top executive called a "massive and unprecedented intrusion" into how news organizations gather the news.

The records obtained by the Justice Department listed outgoing calls for the work and personal phone numbers of individual reporters, for general AP office numbers in New York, Washington and Hartford, Conn., and for the main number for the AP in the House of Representatives press gallery, according to attorneys for the AP. It was not clear if the records also included incoming calls or the duration of the calls.

In all, the government seized the records for more than 20 separate telephone lines assigned to AP and its journalists in April and May of 2012. The exact number of journalists who used the phone lines during that period is unknown, but more than 100 journalists work in the offices where phone records were targeted, on a wide array of stories about government and other matters.

The AP's CEO said tonight that "[t]here can be no possible justification for such an overbroad collection of the telephone communications of The Associated Press and its reporters" -- and I could not agree with him more. This revelation is deeply troubling -- and has the makings of a major scandal. Sure, you could try to mitigate it by noting, fairly, that accessing these phone records isn't as bad as wiretapping. But that is small solace, indeed. There's every reason to believe that Attorney General Eric Holder signed off on this unwarranted assault on the First Amendment, and if so, he ought to be canned (hasn't he overstayed his welcome, anyway?). Also, you might try to excuse this as a one-off, an ill-advised but isolated incident.

Except that it's not.

Since the day he took office, the Obama administration has undertaken an assault on government whistleblowers -- people informing citizens of what their government doesn't want them to know -- that surpasses anything that Nixon or any other president has done. Since 2009, the Obama administration has brought espionage charges against six whistleblowers. And most of these whistleblowers have been criticizing that way that America conducts its neverending war of the 21st Century. One, Thomas Drake, blew the whistle on the illegal warrantless wiretapping that began under George W. Bush. John Kiriakou dropped the dime on illegal U.S. torture -- and was sent away to prison, even as the perpetrators of torture from Dick Cheney to John Yoo continue to walk freely among us.

Nixon had Daniel Ellsberg, and Obama has Bradley Manning of Wikileaks. OK, so they didn't break into the office of Manning's psychiatrist, but they have detained Manning in a solitary confinement that a UN torture expert called "cruel, inhuman and degrading." Do you feel better about that? Because I don't. The war on whistleblowers, the treatment of Manning, and now this investigation of journalists are all hallmarks of a White House that promised transparency but has been one of the most secretive -- all to the detriment of the public's right to know.

Let's be clear -- this is about Obama...and it is about much, much more than Obama. It is yet another example of how the national security state that has dominated our political life since World War II has corrupted the American soul. It is exactly what Philadelphia's own Benjamin Franklin tried to warn us about -- trading liberty for security, and geting neither. To the conservatives reading this, who warn so much about big government running amok...here it is. To the liberals reading this, who thought that one man named Barack Obama could change the system, he couldn't. Only we, the citizens, can truly change things.

Let's work together. Let's start by repealing the 2001 Authorization of the Use of Force, declare victory in what was formerly known as the war on terror, and resolve that never again will this nation enter into a perpetual and constitutionally dubious war. Let's repeal the most egregious aspects of the USA Patriot Act, hold public hearings on the true extent that the U.S. government has spied on citizens without warrants -- and then bring those practices to an end. And as today's events made crystal clear, let's make America a nation where journalists and other truth-tellers can write stories or reveal information that the government might not like...without fear of intrusion or reprisal. Ironically, many of those type of changes were supposed to happen after Nixon, after Vietnam But they either didn't last, or they didn't come at all.

If greater liberty comes from the latest revelations, Obama's sins -- however bad not not bad they may turn out to be -- will not make things worse than Watergate. This time, it -- the aftermath, anyway -- will be better than Watergate.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/a...8PRD54hZRVr.99

Comrade Crapski · 05-16-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey23545

They were investigating phone records to try and find whistleblowers that reporters were talking to.

This administration has been insane when it comes to intimidating and prosecuting whistleblowers. Kinda makes you wonder what frightening things they can't afford to have revealed...

Of course.

The idea that this administration was concerned about public safety is laughable. They won't even call the Fort Hood murders terrorism.

They illegally obtained phone records looking for something else--- something they had no business or legal right to know.

Holder is an evil scumbag. Barry needs to be driven back to Chicongo, preferably in the trunk of a car, and dumped off in the street in front of his house.

Comrade Crapski · 05-21-2013, 01:44 PM

Taco John · 09-19-2017, 05:45 PM

Of course, "Taco Wrong" was posting about Obama abusing wiretaps well before it was cool to do so.

**notorious** · 09-19-2017, 07:51 PM

Reverse the parties and imagine what would happen.

jjjayb · 09-19-2017, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

Reverse the parties and imagine what would happen.

CNN would be covering it wall to wall for the scandal it really is. It's a scandal about the former administration abusing the power of the State Department to spy on reporters, the FBI to spy on political opponents, and the IRS to strong arm political groups it didn't agree with. But MUH RUSSIA!!!!!!!!

lostcause · 09-19-2017, 10:09 PM

Maybe if Manafort hadn't undertaken possibly illegal dealings and convinced the FBI three years ago (long before he was with Trump's campaign) that there was an investigation to pursue and a judge signed off on a FISA, then there wouldn't have been a wire tap.

**Baby Lee** · 09-19-2017, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD

Makes me think of the John Stewart clip.....

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FFFFFF;padding:4px;margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;">The Daily Show with Jon Stewart
Get More: Daily Show Full Episodes,Indecision Political Humor,The Daily Show on Facebook

Just move this down here for mandatory refresher for all who bemoan our recently lost honor and competence in government.

Prison Bitch · 09-19-2017, 10:14 PM

T-post Tom · 09-19-2017, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Just move this down here for mandatory refresher for all who bemoan our recently lost honor and competence in government.

I miss Jon Stewart. The Daily Show misses him even more.

Taco John · 09-19-2017, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Just move this down here for mandatory refresher for all who bemoan our recently lost honor and competence in government.

Can you imagine if Trump was spying on the Associated Press?

Prison Bitch · 09-19-2017, 10:28 PM

jjjayb · 09-19-2017, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostcause

Maybe if Manafort hadn't undertaken possibly illegal dealings and convinced the FBI three years ago (long before he was with Trump's campaign) that there was an investigation to pursue and a judge signed off on a FISA, then there wouldn't have been a wire tap.

Kind of funny how they stopped the surveillance due to lack of finding anything, only to start it up again when he became involved in the campaign.

On it's own, maybe it wouldn't be bothersome. But when you combine that with an administration that used the IRS to strong arm political opponents and the state department to spy on journalists it should give you pause.

Let's not forget this is the same administration that had the NSA listen in to conversations between sitting US Lawmakers and foreign heads of state.

Let's not forget that a supreme court justice said he thought he was being spied on by the same administration.

But hey, I'm sure spying on Trump's campaign was completely legit.

jjjayb · 09-19-2017, 11:55 PM

At least he was honest.

BucEyedPea · 09-20-2017, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FD

Dont trivialize what an outright criminal Nixon was. The current issues aren't even in the same ballpark as Watergate.

You're right, It's much WORSE!

One was a just a two-bit burglary.

BucEyedPea · 09-20-2017, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostcause

Maybe if Manafort hadn't undertaken possibly illegal dealings and convinced the FBI three years ago (long before he was with Trump's campaign) that there was an investigation to pursue and a judge signed off on a FISA, then there wouldn't have been a wire tap.

Except FISA court is a secret court that grants 99% of requests—'cuz terror. Hardly a bastion of due process and far more bendable to politics. So what were they told to get such a warrant. Just scare everybody. This time about Russians. Some of those judges can be corrupt too.

05-15-2013, 12:07 AM
Taco John Sapere Aude Join Date: Jun 2001 Casino cash: $18037	The day the Obama administration went all Nixon on us The day the Obama administration went all Nixon on us Attytood spoiler: That day was May 7, 2012...but first a quick history lesson. Sigh...I know, I know, I write too much about the late 1960s and early 1970s, but this time it's really important. Because today that is the rallying cry for any presidential scandal, that this one is "worse than Watergate." But the Watergate break-in happened 41 years ago, which means that more than half of all Americans weren't even born yet, so you can't blame a lot of voters if they don't know much about what Watergate and the related scandals of Richard Milhous Nixon were all about. One of the biggest drivers of Watergate was the seemingly unending war in Vietnam. As opposition increased to a foreign war that ultimately killed 58,000 Americans, for goals that were murky at best, so did government paranoia. At the core of Watergate was a team of shady operatives that were nicknamed "the White House Plumbers" -- because they went after news leaks...get it? In May 1969, after news reports about U.S. bombing activities in Cambodia, Nixon and his then-national security adviser Henry Kissinger enlisted J. Edgar Hoover's FBI to wiretap journalists and national security aides. Later, one of the worst governmental abuses occurred after whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg leaked the massive Pentagon Papers that exposed governmental lies about the conduct of the war in Vietnam. Nixon's "Plumbers" broke into the office of Ellsberg's psychiatrist to dig up dirt to discredit him. Here is what one of Nixon's former aides, Egil Krogh, wrote about it in 2007: The premise of our action was the strongly held view within certain precincts of the White House that the president and those functioning on his behalf could carry out illegal acts with impunity if they were convinced that the nation’s security demanded it. As President Nixon himself said to David Frost during an interview six years later, “When the president does it, that means it is not illegal.” To this day the implications of this statement are staggering. No doubt. Luckily for America, not everyone agreed. Over the next couple of years, criminal charges against Ellsberg were tossed because of the government's misconduct, and Nixon resigned facing certain impeachment over the activities of his Plumbers and the ensuing, elaborate cover-up. The nation mostly rejoiced. The system worked...for a while. Flash forward to 2012. America had at that point been in an undefined "war on terror" for 11 years -- the same amount of time from the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident that greatly expanded the Vietnam War to the 1975 fall of Saigon. Just as during the 1960s and early 1970s, this terror war had provided government with an excuse to greatly expand its domestic spying on American citizens -- some of that through a law called the Patriot Act and some of it even more dubious, constitutionally. Then, on May 7, 2012, the Associated Press published an article about the Obama administration's conduct of its war in a country that we'd never declared war on (it was Cambodia in 1969, but Yemen in 2012) and Obama's Justice Department -- for reasons not yet fully known -- went crazy over the leak. This, then, is a reminder of why history matters so much. Because if we're not careful...it repeats: WASHINGTON (AP) — The Justice Department secretly obtained two months of telephone records of reporters and editors for The Associated Press in what the news cooperative's top executive called a "massive and unprecedented intrusion" into how news organizations gather the news. The records obtained by the Justice Department listed outgoing calls for the work and personal phone numbers of individual reporters, for general AP office numbers in New York, Washington and Hartford, Conn., and for the main number for the AP in the House of Representatives press gallery, according to attorneys for the AP. It was not clear if the records also included incoming calls or the duration of the calls. In all, the government seized the records for more than 20 separate telephone lines assigned to AP and its journalists in April and May of 2012. The exact number of journalists who used the phone lines during that period is unknown, but more than 100 journalists work in the offices where phone records were targeted, on a wide array of stories about government and other matters. The AP's CEO said tonight that "[t]here can be no possible justification for such an overbroad collection of the telephone communications of The Associated Press and its reporters" -- and I could not agree with him more. This revelation is deeply troubling -- and has the makings of a major scandal. Sure, you could try to mitigate it by noting, fairly, that accessing these phone records isn't as bad as wiretapping. But that is small solace, indeed. There's every reason to believe that Attorney General Eric Holder signed off on this unwarranted assault on the First Amendment, and if so, he ought to be canned (hasn't he overstayed his welcome, anyway?). Also, you might try to excuse this as a one-off, an ill-advised but isolated incident. Except that it's not. Since the day he took office, the Obama administration has undertaken an assault on government whistleblowers -- people informing citizens of what their government doesn't want them to know -- that surpasses anything that Nixon or any other president has done. Since 2009, the Obama administration has brought espionage charges against six whistleblowers. And most of these whistleblowers have been criticizing that way that America conducts its neverending war of the 21st Century. One, Thomas Drake, blew the whistle on the illegal warrantless wiretapping that began under George W. Bush. John Kiriakou dropped the dime on illegal U.S. torture -- and was sent away to prison, even as the perpetrators of torture from Dick Cheney to John Yoo continue to walk freely among us. Nixon had Daniel Ellsberg, and Obama has Bradley Manning of Wikileaks. OK, so they didn't break into the office of Manning's psychiatrist, but they have detained Manning in a solitary confinement that a UN torture expert called "cruel, inhuman and degrading." Do you feel better about that? Because I don't. The war on whistleblowers, the treatment of Manning, and now this investigation of journalists are all hallmarks of a White House that promised transparency but has been one of the most secretive -- all to the detriment of the public's right to know. Let's be clear -- this is about Obama...and it is about much, much more than Obama. It is yet another example of how the national security state that has dominated our political life since World War II has corrupted the American soul. It is exactly what Philadelphia's own Benjamin Franklin tried to warn us about -- trading liberty for security, and geting neither. To the conservatives reading this, who warn so much about big government running amok...here it is. To the liberals reading this, who thought that one man named Barack Obama could change the system, he couldn't. Only we, the citizens, can truly change things. Let's work together. Let's start by repealing the 2001 Authorization of the Use of Force, declare victory in what was formerly known as the war on terror, and resolve that never again will this nation enter into a perpetual and constitutionally dubious war. Let's repeal the most egregious aspects of the USA Patriot Act, hold public hearings on the true extent that the U.S. government has spied on citizens without warrants -- and then bring those practices to an end. And as today's events made crystal clear, let's make America a nation where journalists and other truth-tellers can write stories or reveal information that the government might not like...without fear of intrusion or reprisal. Ironically, many of those type of changes were supposed to happen after Nixon, after Vietnam But they either didn't last, or they didn't come at all. If greater liberty comes from the latest revelations, Obama's sins -- however bad not not bad they may turn out to be -- will not make things worse than Watergate. This time, it -- the aftermath, anyway -- will be better than Watergate. Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/a...8PRD54hZRVr.99
Posts: 61,334

05-21-2013, 01:44 PM	#47
Comrade Crapski Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sea of Green 23.4° Casino cash: $5000
Posts: 3,833

09-19-2017, 05:45 PM	#48
Taco John Sapere Aude Join Date: Jun 2001 Casino cash: $18037	Of course, "Taco Wrong" was posting about Obama abusing wiretaps well before it was cool to do so. __________________ Ehyeh asher ehyeh. Free Predictions: 2008: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...1&#post3690801 2012: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...43#post9079043 2016: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...8#post12475268
Posts: 61,334

09-19-2017, 07:51 PM	#49
notorious I Lay Wood for a Living Join Date: May 2005 Location: Who knows? Casino cash: $39904	Reverse the parties and imagine what would happen.
Posts: 55,795

09-19-2017, 10:09 PM	#51
lostcause Veteran Join Date: Apr 2009 Casino cash: $5340	Maybe if Manafort hadn't undertaken possibly illegal dealings and convinced the FBI three years ago (long before he was with Trump's campaign) that there was an investigation to pursue and a judge signed off on a FISA, then there wouldn't have been a wire tap.
Posts: 2,125

09-19-2017, 10:14 PM	#53
Prison Bitch Where's my WALL? Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Lees summit Casino cash: $60258	__________________ This latest murder in no way represents Islam.
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09-19-2017, 10:28 PM	#56
Prison Bitch Where's my WALL? Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Lees summit Casino cash: $60258	__________________ This latest murder in no way represents Islam.
Posts: 47,663

09-19-2017, 11:55 PM	#58
jjjayb MVP Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Back in K.C. baby!!!! Casino cash: $13533	At least he was honest.
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