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Old 05-22-2013, 07:54 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Why was there NO basement in that Oklahoma public school?

Professor Tom DiLorenzo hits the nail on the head why:



Quote:
In one of my earlier books I cited former New York City Mayor Ed Koch explaining why the city's "infrastructure" (sewer and water lines, bridges and roads, etc.) always seemed to be long overdue for maintenance and rebuilding: "It's hard to hold a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a new sewer line," said the mayor.

Government turns everything it touches into crap, and economics provides numerous explanations why. In this case, Mayor Koch hit the nail on the head: Politicians like himself will always spend taxpayers' money in a way that enhaces THEIR popularity and maximizes THEIR chances for re-election. There are orders of magnitude more votes to be had in handing out welfare benefits or lavish public employee pensions than in replacing leaky water lines. Public employees are well organized politically; the average taxpaying citizens are not.

As for Oklahoma City, news reports are that there was not an underground basement in that public school where nine children died during the tornado. An explanation is that when it comes to spending money on "schools," broadly defined, there are many, many more votes and campaign contributions to be had by spending the money on increased public school teacher and administrator salaries and pensions than on school building basements. Teachers' unions are famously well organized politically; average taxpayers are not. Putting a basement in a new school building will not motivate government school teachers to spend thousands of hours campaigning and driving voters to the polls in school buses. Promises of pay and pension increases will.
Don't be fooled by Prog claims they're looking out for your children or your interests. They are for lining their own pockets first. Whether it's for more bureaucratic jobs with pensions, pay increases or otherwise. This is why they see "greed" in businessmen primarily. They suffer from greed themselves. A Me First attitude.

Last edited by BucEyedPea; 05-22-2013 at 08:25 AM..
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:01 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, ya' know what, I actually think the left wants it that way. Why would so many from the left be in that system these days.



Government can be defined as the aggregate irresponsibility of the people. The more we get, the less people are willing to be responsible. So like I said, it's ultimately up to the voters in that area to demand more shelter and part with the money for these. Or hold a fundraiser. Something.

I took out the part where diLorenzo says...but "keep sending your kids to public schools," because I thought that would create more rage.
Well that's definitely the trend, isn't it? Others should be doing for us, not ourselves...
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:24 PM   #77
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I have not read the entire thread, but there isn't a newer school in Iowa that has a basement. Dumb argument.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:29 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Well that's definitely the trend, isn't it? Others should be doing for us, not ourselves...
The push for more pre-care, after-care, more hours in school, mental health screenings are all part of that.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:30 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Hoover View Post
I have not read the entire thread, but there isn't a newer school in Iowa that has a basement. Dumb argument.
Fortunately, this isn't even an argument.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:50 PM   #80
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This woman, survived the Joplin tornado in a kevlar shelter bolted to the floor of her garage. Meanwhile, her neighborhood was wiped out.


Kevlar Bunker Provides Safe House for Tornado Survivor
Quote:
...pre-fabricated safe rooms have been installed through federally supported grant programs for less than $5,000 each.




Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/01...#ixzz2U4J4KRyK
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:28 PM   #81
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You can do it, but it's not cost effective, and the clay will expand and contract so much that the basement won't last long. It will be cracked and leaking in a matter of years. Plus the water line is usually only a few feet deep. There's a reason why barely 1% of Oklahoma homes have basements...
Then maybe it's time to either develop something else or move out of there. Its cost prohibitive. Its draining resources. Its not safe.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:59 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Professor Tom DiLorenzo hits the nail on the head why:





Don't be fooled by Prog claims they're looking out for your children or your interests. They are for lining their own pockets first. Whether it's for more bureaucratic jobs with pensions, pay increases or otherwise. This is why they see "greed" in businessmen primarily. They suffer from greed themselves. A Me First attitude.


http://www.wunderground.com/news/why...ments-20130521
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:04 PM   #83
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Already linked earlier in the thread, BUT says Okla folks have other options. These options are mentioned elsewhere in the thread too. Read it and get back to the discussion when you're informed of what's transpired here.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:27 AM   #84
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Why aren't there more storm shelters in Oklahoma?

(Because it's a Red State, Duh.)

By Mark Schone and Nidhi Subbaraman
NBC News

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news...-oklahoma?lite

"The earth itself was at least partially to blame for why desperate schoolchildren in Moore, Okla., had nowhere to hide from Monday’s devastating tornado.


Much of the soil in Oklahoma, including Moore, is red clay -- a porous substance that makes foundations settle and basements and underground tornado shelters leak. “That’s the reason we don’t have basements,” said Tom Bennett of Tulsa, past president of the National Storm Shelter Association. In greater Oklahoma City, which includes Moore, only 3.5 percent of homes have basements, according to Reuters.

But it wasn’t just the ground under residents’ feet that was to blame. The region’s politics and economy also were factors.

“This is a red state,” said state Rep. Richard Morrissette, D-Oklahoma City, who has introduced several unsuccessful bills in the state Legislature to require so-called “safe rooms,” shelters or anti-tornado construction in homes and trailer parks. “People don’t like anything that is mandated. They don’t like it when the government says they have to do something.”

That makes Oklahoma similar to other states in Tornado Alley. “I am unaware of any jurisdiction that requires safe rooms in private homes,” said Corey Schultz, a Kansas architect who specializes in building safe rooms for schools. And only one state – Alabama – requires them in schools, he said."

...

"FEMA’s Watson said that in the past 20 years, “FEMA has invested more than $57 million in 11,768 private and public safe rooms in Oklahoma, more structures than any other state. Many were in the same area as yesterday’s tornado.”

Despite the construction and subsidies, Bennett estimated that less than a fifth of the state’s 4 million residents have access to meaningful private shelter from tornadoes. In Moore, according to the New York Times, only about 10 percent of homes have them.

Schultz, the Kansas architect, said Oklahoma schools are not required to have storm shelters, but can apply for federal funding to build them. Albert Ashwood, who heads the Oklahoma Department of Emergency Management, said at a press conference Tuesday that safe rooms at more than 100 schools had been funded via FEMA, but that the two schools hit in Oklahoma, Briarwood Elementary and Plaza Towers Elementary, were not among them. There are more than 1,800 public schools in Oklahoma."

Bennett said that he is now receiving the same kind of back-channel signals that he got after the 2007 tornado in Enterprise, Ala., where a tornado killed seven at the local high school. That led Alabama to require schools to include safe rooms or to close during tornado watches. “Oklahoma may be headed in the direction of Alabama,” he said.

/it's a shame a bill requiring safe rooms was voted down.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:37 AM   #85
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IF FEMA is providing Federal Money, here are some things that could be cut to build safe rooms:

How many shelters could we build for the cost of....

--one F35 alternative engine?
--one Littoral Combat Ship
--one row of M1 tanks that the Army doesn't need
--one more payment to the MEADS missile system that the Army won't actually buy
--one year of sugar subsidies, or farm subsidies, or Monsanto subsidies
--one House vote to repeal HCA
--one session in front of Federal court defending DOMA
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:09 AM   #86
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After my emotion on this subject has subsided, I have a slightly different outlook on the subject.



10 kids got killed, and it is horrible. It was also a freak storm that doesn't happen very often. Do we really need to go completely nuts on building shelters for schools in tornado zones?

Mind you, these will probably be VERY expensive considering they will need to house thousands of kids for a tornado that has an extremely small chance of actually hitting.

I want our children protected, but sometimes shit happens.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:13 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious View Post
After my emotion on this subject has subsided, I have a slightly different outlook on the subject.



10 kids got killed, and it is horrible. It was also a freak storm that doesn't happen very often. Do we really need to go completely nuts on building shelters for schools in tornado zones?

Mind you, these will probably be VERY expensive considering they will need to house thousands of kids for a tornado that has an extremely small chance of actually hitting.

I want our children protected, but sometimes shit happens.
Correct.
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