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Old 07-26-2010, 12:51 AM  
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Mad Men

Season 4 premiered tonight. I would have bumped the season three thread but I titled it "season 3," which no longer seems appropriate.

Who saw it? It was a stupendous hour of television. All sorts of shit has happened in the eleven months that have passed (in-story) between the formation of Sterling Cooper Draper Price and the beginning of season 4. The premeir was stepped in the juices of the sexual revolution. It also had a lot to say about the increasing role of the media in the success or failure of things. It was great to see Don fail a little bit, and it was exciting to consider the future implications at the end of Don crafting a public/media persona that is completely unlike his actual personality.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:44 AM   #601
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Eh, he was excited about the Hershey meeting. He wanted that business (in my mind Don the businessman wanted that business more than Don the guy wanted them not to advertise). And then he immediately sent Ted to Cali, something we know Don wanted. I really think that was meant as a coming to Jesus moment...I just thought it was ham-fisted.
I think Don wanted the challenge of pitching to Hershey. His hubris wanted the shot. And then he won. So he decided to blow it up. Because he could and that's they way he wanted it.

Don's locked into his past. And he's wrestling with every aspect of that past, it seems to me. Including keeping Hershey the same as it ever was. This whole season has been about falling down and looking back. Don's trying to reconcile his past and his present.

At least that's the way I see it. I should watch the episode again, but I really think Don's decision to send Ted to Cali was motivated more by Don's reflection of his own mistakes than anything Ted was doing.

It was, again, Don making all the decisions and doing what he thinks is best. But I do also think that in his own mind, he was being a good guy. I don't think any of it was malicious, just arrogant and self-centered. I also think he never thought for a minute Megan would leave (is she gone for good?).

Don doesn't see the the consequences. He doesn't understand the weight he throws around.

Again, just one person's take on those scenes.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:28 AM   #602
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I have mixed emotions about the Season Six finale. It was either brilliant or the moment the show jumped the shark.

Like DJ, I didn't believe that Weiner believed in redemption. But last night, he started Don on the path of redemption IMO, there's no turning back without the risk of making a mockery of the first six seasons.

It was brilliant, IMO, how Don's path to redemption began: His own realization that things had "Gotten out of hand". The first step in rectifying wrongdoing is realizing that you've been behaving poorly. Don did that last night and seemed content with whatever blowback would happen, whether it be with Megan or Sally or even Ted.

I don't think for a minute that Don didn't realize what he was doing in the Hershey's meeting or the blowback (i.e., firing) that would occur. I think he felt they were necessary steps in order to come to grips with massive downfall. One has to look in the face of the devil in order to be redeemed, and IMO, that's exactly what Don did last night.

I also found it interesting that several of the characters WERE Don Draper last night: Pete, dealing with the loss of his overbearing mother. Ted, acting like Don, having an affair, asking for forgiveness from Don in order to rectify his wrongs and Peggy, sleeping around, finding no fulfilling relationships or triumphs other than professionally, with her taking over Don's office and view. Her arc is the most interesting and I'm quite possibly more excited to see how it ends next season that Don's.

Ted and Pete are on their own path to redemption as well. Both are trying to reconcile with their families (although Pete's is more mental than anything else). Roger is attempting to connect with his bastard child because it's clear that there's not much hope for a loving stable relationship with his daughter. She's seen too much.

Where the show ultimately lost and confused me last night is that nowhere, not once, did anyone of Don's friends, whether it was Roger or Joan (or anyone other than Peggy "Monster!") confront Don and try to help him get it together. Don and Roger palled around as much as anyone on this show and they'd both shared good times and bad, but in the hour of Don's most discontent, Roger fires him? That seemed very unrealistic to me, especially since Roger too is on a path of redemption.

Also, the one thing that never seems to be mentioned or even hinted at is that Don doesn't need the ad business. He doesn't need SC&P or any of its previous incarnations because he's a millionaire. And being a millionaire in the mid 60's is akin to having $10 million today. And we've never seen him lead a lavish lifestyle or live beyond his ample means. If anything, he's probably got even more money stashed away.

So in terms of "What does it all mean?", the guy can go buy a beach house in Santa Monica and live comfortably without ever working another day in his life. Losing his job is fairly meaningless, especially given the fact that if he DOES clean up, there would be a massive bidding war for his services, whether it be in Manhattan, Chicago, Los Angeles or San Francisco. The guy is well-known, hot commodity and a little tension for a few months at SC&P would not hinder anyone from pursuing his service.

On another note, according to this interview today with Weiner, he has no idea where the show is going in its final season. He doesn't know what year the show will be set and he doesn't even know if the final season will be a "stand alone" season with its own ending or if the final season will actually be a final season. It may just be an ambiguous end.

http://www.vulture.com/2013/06/matth...en-finale.html
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:48 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
I have mixed emotions about the Season Six finale. It was either brilliant or the moment the show jumped the shark.

Like DJ, I didn't believe that Weiner believed in redemption. But last night, he started Don on the path of redemption IMO, there's no turning back without the risk of making a mockery of the first six seasons.

It was brilliant, IMO, how Don's path to redemption began: His own realization that things had "Gotten out of hand". The first step in rectifying wrongdoing is realizing that you've been behaving poorly. Don did that last night and seemed content with whatever blowback would happen, whether it be with Megan or Sally or even Ted.

I don't think for a minute that Don didn't realize what he was doing in the Hershey's meeting or the blowback (i.e., firing) that would occur. I think he felt they were necessary steps in order to come to grips with massive downfall. One has to look in the face of the devil in order to be redeemed, and IMO, that's exactly what Don did last night.

I also found it interesting that several of the characters WERE Don Draper last night: Pete, dealing with the loss of his overbearing mother. Ted, acting like Don, having an affair, asking for forgiveness from Don in order to rectify his wrongs and Peggy, sleeping around, finding no fulfilling relationships or triumphs other than professionally, with her taking over Don's office and view. Her arc is the most interesting and I'm quite possibly more excited to see how it ends next season that Don's.

Ted and Pete are on their own path to redemption as well. Both are trying to reconcile with their families (although Pete's is more mental than anything else). Roger is attempting to connect with his bastard child because it's clear that there's not much hope for a loving stable relationship with his daughter. She's seen too much.

Where the show ultimately lost and confused me last night is that nowhere, not once, did anyone of Don's friends, whether it was Roger or Joan (or anyone other than Peggy "Monster!") confront Don and try to help him get it together. Don and Roger palled around as much as anyone on this show and they'd both shared good times and bad, but in the hour of Don's most discontent, Roger fires him? That seemed very unrealistic to me, especially since Roger too is on a path of redemption.

Also, the one thing that never seems to be mentioned or even hinted at is that Don doesn't need the ad business. He doesn't need SC&P or any of its previous incarnations because he's a millionaire. And being a millionaire in the mid 60's is akin to having $10 million today. And we've never seen him lead a lavish lifestyle or live beyond his ample means. If anything, he's probably got even more money stashed away.

So in terms of "What does it all mean?", the guy can go buy a beach house in Santa Monica and live comfortably without ever working another day in his life. Losing his job is fairly meaningless, especially given the fact that if he DOES clean up, there would be a massive bidding war for his services, whether it be in Manhattan, Chicago, Los Angeles or San Francisco. The guy is well-known, hot commodity and a little tension for a few months at SC&P would not hinder anyone from pursuing his service.

On another note, according to this interview today with Weiner, he has no idea where the show is going in its final season. He doesn't know what year the show will be set and he doesn't even know if the final season will be a "stand alone" season with its own ending or if the final season will actually be a final season. It may just be an ambiguous end.

http://www.vulture.com/2013/06/matth...en-finale.html
Don was fired, but he's still a partner, no?
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:26 PM   #604
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Joan's pissed at Don for bailing out of Jaguar for Chevy.

Roger is all about Roger anymore.. Yes he wants to be involved with Kevin but even then don't you think that's only because he's a boy and not a girl?

Don's only true friend was Anna. No one else cares for him as both Don and Dick like she did. Megan, I think, has shown her true colors in letting go of the notion she can be an actress and wife and now has the chops to succeed as the former. I mean, hell, she didn't grovel about any of his problems being her fault and wrote off the children as damaged goods.

Peggy could've been his closest friend and even more than that but the whole money throwing thing from the SCDP days and her own ambition puts that to rest.

He did a huge solid for Dr. Rosen but I doubt we see him (and hopefully Sylvia) again.

Weiner successfully deconstructed Don in 13 hours of television and its going to be pretty damned interesting to see what happens next as it looks like he's done for in advertising.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:57 PM   #605
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its going to be pretty damned interesting to see what happens next as it looks like he's done for in advertising.
If Don shopped himself on the market in 6 months, he'd probably end up making as much/more money as he was making at SCP.

Draper's bona fides are well established - he'd incite a bidding war even among the largest firms. If his timing was right, he'd probably be able to land a creative director slot at an even larger firm.

Elite talent at the upper levels is rarely available and in a market as 'shady' as advertising, nobody is without blood on their hands. If Don wanted to go back into the game, he'd probably fall uphill for his troubles.

The interesting question is whether or not he wants to. He's not 'done for' in advertising, but he may well be done with advertising.
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:51 PM   #606
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If Don shopped himself on the market in 6 months, he'd probably end up making as much/more money as he was making at SCP.

Draper's bona fides are well established - he'd incite a bidding war even among the largest firms. If his timing was right, he'd probably be able to land a creative director slot at an even larger firm.

Elite talent at the upper levels is rarely available and in a market as 'shady' as advertising, nobody is without blood on their hands. If Don wanted to go back into the game, he'd probably fall uphill for his troubles.

The interesting question is whether or not he wants to. He's not 'done for' in advertising, but he may well be done with advertising.
All it takes is Bert Cooper revealing that Don Draper is a complete fabrication though...
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:59 PM   #607
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All it takes is Bert Cooper revealing that Don Draper is a complete fabrication though...
Are you kidding? No one would care or even think twice about hiring him. The guy has kicked ass for the better part of ten years.

All that matters is that he brings in the business. Period.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:13 PM   #608
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:03 PM   #609
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Are you kidding? No one would care or even think twice about hiring him. The guy has kicked ass for the better part of ten years.

All that matters is that he brings in the business. Period.
This. Nobody would care. As he noted regarding Chevy, they just want his head in a jar/corner office.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:00 AM   #610
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Are you kidding? No one would care or even think twice about hiring him. The guy has kicked ass for the better part of ten years.

All that matters is that he brings in the business. Period.
Exactly.

Talent is a funny thing. You see lawyers in the major metro areas get censured, suspended and tossed from big-money practices every year. These are public lambastings and everyone on the bench and bar knows about them.

But a year later, those guys will be at another silk-stocking firm pulling down an easy six figures.

Talent trumps all in insular professions. A guy with Draper's resume and name value, even if Cooper did look to blow him out of the water, would land on his feet in no time flat.

Duck's biggest problem and the reason he's not back in the game is that he was simply never as good as Don but believed he was. If Don wants to be the big dick in charge of another top 30 agency, all he'd have to do is bide his time until a slot opened up and he'd skyrocket to the top of the interview lists. If he shows up sober with the same fastball he had when he was pitching Kodak, they'd give him whatever he wants.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:01 AM   #611
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I don't think the problem with Don's identity being exposed is in adverting so much as it is with the military. I doubt that they're going to let off someone who stole a dead soldier's identity in order to go AWOL, especially in the middle of the Vietnam War. There would probably even be questions as to whether he murdered the real Don.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:04 AM   #612
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I don't think the problem with Don's identity being exposed is in adverting so much as it is with the military. I doubt that they're going to let off someone who stole a dead soldier's identity in order to go AWOL, especially in the middle of the Vietnam War. There would probably even be questions as to whether he murdered the real Don.
Murdered? I don't think so. They were clearly the victims of a bombing or mortar attack. The real Don Draper's face was blown off.

There would be no investigation for murder.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:02 PM   #613
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Murdered? I don't think so. They were clearly the victims of a bombing or mortar attack. The real Don Draper's face was blown off.

There would be no investigation for murder.
It's almost 20 years after the Korean War.

There would be no investigation into anything. The US Military in 1969 had plenty to worry about, they weren't going to throw assets at military tribunals designed to bury rich white guys for going AWOL 2 decades ago.

That's why all this "Bob Benson is a spy" crap was always nonsense to me. A) It's not Weiner's thing; he doesn't do soap opera twists. But B) The government would give zero ****s about Whitman at this point if he just kept his head down and his mouth shut, which is exactly what he's done.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:45 PM   #614
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It's almost 20 years after the Korean War.

There would be no investigation into anything. The US Military in 1969 had plenty to worry about, they weren't going to throw assets at military tribunals designed to bury rich white guys for going AWOL 2 decades ago.

That's why all this "Bob Benson is a spy" crap was always nonsense to me. A) It's not Weiner's thing; he doesn't do soap opera twists. But B) The government would give zero ****s about Whitman at this point if he just kept his head down and his mouth shut, which is exactly what he's done.
Exactly.

And no offense to some of the other posters in this thread, but seriously, this is what you want to talk about? This is what you got from this season? Whether or not Don's still a partner after being fired or whether he'd be charged with murder, when murder was clearly not the case?

The future of Don Draper/Dick Whitman is so much more interesting to discuss. What happens to his family, to his current wife, to his psyche? Where does he live in Season Seven? Has he reconciled with his children, especially Sally? Has he come to grips with the demons inside or him or will it always be a constant battle?

There are just endless possibilities to address.

But murder? No.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:49 PM   #615
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But murder? No.
Real Don survived the mortar attack, he wasn't killed until afterward when Dick accidentally dropped a lit lighter into spilled gasoline, causing an explosion. So look at it from the outside: two guys alone together in a remote outpost, one dies and is burned beyond recognition, and the other steals his identity in order to leave Korea years early. I'm not saying that Don would be convicted, but there would have to be questions.

And no, in a vacuum I wouldn't say the military would be super interested in prosecuting a rich white man who went AWOL twenty years ago. But if the media got a hold of it, during the Vietnam War, in the midst of all the controversy about draft dodging?
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Jamie is not part of the Right 53.Jamie is not part of the Right 53.Jamie is not part of the Right 53.Jamie is not part of the Right 53.Jamie is not part of the Right 53.Jamie is not part of the Right 53.Jamie is not part of the Right 53.Jamie is not part of the Right 53.Jamie is not part of the Right 53.Jamie is not part of the Right 53.Jamie is not part of the Right 53.
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