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Old 07-03-2013, 09:17 AM  
Msmith Msmith is offline
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Obamacare is postponed one year for...

...large corporations.

ObamaCare is still going into effect in 2014, but one key component of it is being temporarily shelved. The White House today postponed by one year a rule requiring employers to either provide coverage to employees or face hefty fines, reports the Wall Street Journal. The rule will take effect in 2015, instead of 2014...

Link: http://www.newser.com/story/170420/b...-one-year.html

It is better to duck the rising premium during the election year. Smart move!
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:28 PM   #76
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Smith HATER View Post
Why expect anything else from a career politician.

Stupid ****ing asshole has done nothing else with his life.
Not to cast stones, but President of the Harvard Law Review and best-selling author are probably better than your lot in life.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:29 PM   #77
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
the post I linked to and said wasn't true...

Can't you read?
Ok.

Dumbshit.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:32 PM   #78
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Democrats didn't give a rat's ass about this as they voted for a bill they never read.
Democrats wanted a Romneycare system applied to the whole country.

Like all laws, you're going to have some warts that you will have to remove.

The problem is, they didn't count on the entire Republican Party turning its back on a law they had previously endorsed, demonizing it to the point of attempting to pathologically repeal it 40 separate times. Any Republican action on the law outside of complete and total repeal is considered to be supporting Obamacare. Period.

That's psychotic, but that's where we are. And it means Congress can't make any repairs to Obamacare until (a.) the Republican fever breaks, or (b.) Democrats win total control of Congress again.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:33 PM   #79
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
I love how Direkshun is now blaming Repubs for this
I love how that's not a rebuttal to a single thing I've said.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:37 PM   #80
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
The system that we have is completely busted, the only ones who will not benefit from fixing it are extremely poor people who pay nothing out of pocket either way.

Anyone who actually pays for health insurance or medical bills will benefit from things like affordable health care act and romney care in Mass...

In fact, its really the only way health insurance can survive if you understand the details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
1) your medical bills were already at record high levels before anyone had ever even heard of Obama

2) your medical bills rose to even higher levels yet, before Obama care was passed

3) if obama care never existed your medical bills would continue to rise at the high rates they have been rising at

4) the exchanges which will give everyone the opportunity to negotiate better proices, and actually lower our rates do not get implemented till 2014, so we haven't had a chance to see how the theory of competition and supply vs demand will affect prices...but there is almost no way that these exchanges will cause an increase in prices...it wouldnt make any sense....and even if there is an increase in proces AT LEAST WE ****ING TRIED SOMETHING to lower prices....

5) I have yet to hear of any better ideas, so I am open to any solutions but simply repealing obama care (without at least trying to let the exchanges do their job for a couple of years) and offering nothing to the people in return is un acceptable
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
The MORE people in an insurance pool the CHEAPER it costs everyone per person...

Its the basic fundamental rule of insurance..

All of the rest of the people in the world smarter than you realize it is cheaper to insure people and get them preventative care than it is to fix them in emergency rooms every time they get sick...
Weeded out the angry shit. This is all good information.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:39 PM   #81
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What the stupid people in this thread fail to grasp is that we are all ALREADY paying for everyone's health care who can't afford it.

People go to the emergency room and the bills get passed to those with jobs....

Going to the emergency room is much much higher priced than prevention.

Couple this with the FACT that kids under 30 who dont have health insurance are generally the least risk of having serious medical issues.....

Getting EVERYONE into the insurance pool instead of treating them in the emergency room will spread the risk out.

Repealing Obama Care will not magically fix these fundamental issues, nor address the other real issue: costs of the health care itself.

All obama-care really is is an attempt to lower the costs,spread the risks, and get people into the pool...people that if they dont get in the pool will just raise all of the costs for those who pay for it anyway.

The same way romney care works in Mass...basically
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:44 PM   #82
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
What the stupid people in this thread fail to grasp is that we are all ALREADY paying for everyone's health care who can't afford it.

People go to the emergency room and the bills get passed to those with jobs....

Going to the emergency room is much much higher priced than prevention.

Couple this with the FACT that kids under 30 who dont have health insurance are generally the least risk of having serious medical issues.....

Getting EVERYONE into the insurance pool instead of treating them in the emergency room will spread the risk out.

Repealing Obama Care will not magically fix these fundamental issues, nor address the other real issue: costs of the health care itself.

All obama-care really is is an attempt to lower the costs,spread the risks, and get people into the pool...people that if they dont get in the pool will just raise all of the costs for those who pay for it anyway.

The same way romney care works in Mass...basically
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:45 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Weeded out the angry shit.
I apologize for sounding angry, man.

Well I am angry..but mainly because I have not heard a single person argue intelligently against:

-getting more people in the insurance pool
-getting healthier and younger people in the insurance pool (improving the demo of the pool)
-explain why exchanges are a bad idea
-explain why more choice will be bad
-explain why Obama care will 'cost more' per person than treating sick people in emergency rooms
-explain why prevention would be more expensive than cures
_explain why the cost of rising health care is somehow Obama's fault when the real meat of this program hasn't had a chance to work yet
-explain how a system where you can go ANY TIME (using ambulances like Taxis, to get painkillers) to an emergency room to get an insanely expensive treatment (currently) is better than Obama care


So far it is pretty much just been 'Obama sux' and I do agree with that....

But that really has no bearing on this issue which is more similar to Romney's idea than anything else...

Sorry to come off angry but until a poster comes out and actually rebuts these things intelligently, **** them..I shit on them.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:48 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
What the stupid people in this thread fail to grasp is that we are all ALREADY paying for everyone's health care who can't afford it.

People go to the emergency room and the bills get passed to those with jobs....

Going to the emergency room is much much higher priced than prevention.
Got it, so Obamacare will lower rates if this is true. Right? Why then are rates increasing pretty much across the board? If I am already paying higher prices for all this emergency care cost being passed on to me then at LEAST my rates should just stay the same. Your theory doesn't work in REALITY. Rates are going up and pretty much everyone who is credible is predicting more of the same.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:50 PM   #85
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
I apologize for sounding angry, man.

Well I am angry..but mainly because I have not heard a single person argue intelligently against:

-getting more people in the insurance pool
-getting healthier and younger people in the insurance pool (improving the demo of the pool)
-explain why exchanges are a bad idea
-explain why more choice will be bad
-explain why Obama care will 'cost more' per person than treating sick people in emergency rooms
-explain why prevention would be more expensive than cures
_explain why the cost of rising health care is somehow Obama's fault when the real meat of this program hasn't had a chance to work yet
-explain how a system where you can go ANY TIME (using ambulances like Taxis, to get painkillers) to an emergency room to get an insanely expensive treatment (currently) is better than Obama care

So far it is pretty much just been 'Obama sux' and I do agree with that....

But that really has no bearing on this issue which is more similar to Romney's idea than anything else...

Sorry to come off angry but until a poster comes out and actually rebuts these things intelligently, **** them..I shit on them.
I'm with you, with only a couple minor differences, I totally agree and you're largely outlining why the ACA was a necessary reform.

Agreeing with you, of course, is a new thing for me. And it makes me feel a wee bit ill.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:51 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Got it, so Obamacare will lower rates if this is true. Right? Why then are rates increasing pretty much across the board? If I am already paying higher prices for all this emergency care cost being passed on to me then at LEAST my rates should just stay the same. Your theory doesn't work in REALITY. Rates are going up and pretty much everyone who is credible is predicting more of the same.
SInce you seem to like answering questions with questions:

1) were your rates rising BEFORE Obama care?

2) do you think your rates wouldve risen without the passage of Obama care?

3) do you think insurance exchanges and getting everyone into the insurance pool (like Massachusetts) has any chance to lower costs?

4) do you think that having a choice between many health care insurance companies and being able to switch plans more easily would help competition , and MAYBE reduce prices ?
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:51 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Got it, so Obamacare will lower rates if this is true. Right?
Bending the cost curve does not necessarily mean lower rates. It just means rates will be far less likely to catapult dozens of percents at a time.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:53 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
You are so ****ing stupid it hurts....

The MORE people in an insurance pool the CHEAPER it costs everyone per person...

Its the basic fundamental rule of insurance..

You are a ****ign retarded idiot, jesus christ, how are you even allowed to ****ing vote?


and Ive got a news flash for you:

All of the rest of the people in the world smarter than you realize it is cheaper to insure people and get them preventative care than it is to fix them in emergency rooms every time they get sick...

You think those "30 million people" dont raise your health costs ANYWAY? Moron.

You are quite simply, a ****ing dumb ass.
Let me type slow for you here.

In a true apples to apples comparison you are close to being right. The more people you add to an existing pool paying the same amount for the same services there is a realistic chance premiums could be lowered. What you're looking for is single payer.

With Obamacare you don't have that. You've got millions of more people now getting the same services that don't pay the same amount. Millions of people will get insurance basically free or at a greatly subsidized price. With increased services for all, including kids insured until they are 26, birth control, no caps, etc. The people that will be paying that subsidy are the rest of us.

For every study you show that states premiums will be reduced I can find another saying they will be increased. It already happened in California. If you're buying individual health insurance in California Obamacare could cost your premiums to rise 64-146%.



In my case where I have a company group plan, the mandated 'benefits' don't come free. My costs have no choice but go up.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:53 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm with you, with only a couple minor differences, I totally agree and you're largely outlining why the ACA was a necessary reform.

Agreeing with you, of course, is a new thing for me. And it makes me feel a wee bit ill.
Well, I have agreed with you on things in the past, I just disagree with you on other stuff..

Hell ive even green repped you before on stuff.

I'm not just a lock-step partisan. I have some issues where I am much more 'conservative' and others much more liberal...

I think people like me are more and more common?
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:54 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
4) do you think that having a choice between many health care insurance companies and being able to switch plans more easily would help competition , and MAYBE reduce prices ?
That's actually the worst kept secret about Obamacare. It is built on exchanges, which are designed to enhance competitiveness in the health insurance market. Pre-Obamacare, to call the health insurance industry a healthy free market was laughable at best.

This was a policy crafted, championed, and selectively implemented by the Republican Party.

The second Obama touches it, it's the most radical radicality to ever radical a radical, and must be stopped at all costs.
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