Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

View Poll Results: Will these steps benefit you or your family?
No pre-existing conditions. 18 34.62%
No cap on benefits. 16 30.77%
Insurance companies can't drop you or your family if they get sick. 14 26.92%
Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26. 11 21.15%
Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund. 18 34.62%
More preventive services will be free. 16 30.77%
Screw Obamacare 33 63.46%
Gaz says I'm indifferent 3 5.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-03-2013, 07:06 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
Brainwashed
 
BigRedChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Swims with fishes
Casino cash: $299865
Will these Obamacare steps benefit you or your family?

Will these steps benefit you or your family?

  1. No pre-existing conditions.
  2. No cap on benefits. If I or a member of my family need to battle cancer, they will get the help they need.
  3. Insurance companies can't drop me or my family if we get sick.
  4. Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26.
  5. Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund.
  6. A shitload of preventive services will be free. Googled the list.http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskf...uspsabrecs.htm

Spin off from another thread. Going to make this a private poll
Posts: 42,529
BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 10:16 PM   #91
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $295
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I am 100% in DISagreement about health care being a right. I think that type of thinking has already led us down a dark path. BUT I'm a realist and know that I am part of a shrinking minority on this issue. I'm willing to look at any solution that addresses the REAL underlying issues. My problem is that Obamacare does almost NOTHING good in this respect. The only thing that it does that I support is to allow for more nationwide insurance competition. I don't like the implementation but no one can argue that more competition is a bad thing.

Obamacare is one step forward and a solid 5 steps BACK.
I have yet to see anything thoughtful or intelligent on how obama care is only 1 step forward and 5 steps back..

All I have seen is hype and scare tactics from people who are paid shills of the industry...

I'd be interested in reading any article that addresses the points I have previously broght up, time and again.... like:

why exchanges arent going to help lower prices
why getting more people into the insurance pool is a bad idea
etc

(I have a list of like 10 , that I haven't seen anyone post solid answers to)

You may be right, in that Obama care will suck or fail but:

1) we won't know for sure until we at least try
2) theres no better plan on the immediate table
3) the current system is broken
4) people are demanding some action

I'd rather try Obama care for 5 years and see it fail, and then start from scratch than continue down a decades long path of doing absolutely nothing but watching rates skyrocket from the sidelines.
__________________
**** Left CP 9-4-2013 **** Mod Harassment, requested by a more "in" user
Posts: 13,198
Pawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 10:43 PM   #92
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
Be HEALED!!!!!!!
 
KILLER_CLOWN's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fascist State
Casino cash: $11142616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
I have yet to see anything thoughtful or intelligent on how obama care is only 1 step forward and 5 steps back..

All I have seen is hype and scare tactics from people who are paid shills of the industry...

I'd be interested in reading any article that addresses the points I have previously broght up, time and again.... like:

why exchanges arent going to help lower prices
why getting more people into the insurance pool is a bad idea
etc

(I have a list of like 10 , that I haven't seen anyone post solid answers to)

You may be right, in that Obama care will suck or fail but:

1) we won't know for sure until we at least try
2) theres no better plan on the immediate table
3) the current system is broken
4) people are demanding some action

I'd rather try Obama care for 5 years and see it fail, and then start from scratch than continue down a decades long path of doing absolutely nothing but watching rates skyrocket from the sidelines.
Trying Obamacare is the equivelant of running from a bully over a cliff...well let's jump over we can't face that guy.
__________________
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father ... And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

"If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 24,192
KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 10:54 PM   #93
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is online now
MVP
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Casino cash: $127074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
I have yet to see anything thoughtful or intelligent on how obama care is only 1 step forward and 5 steps back..

All I have seen is hype and scare tactics from people who are paid shills of the industry...

I'd be interested in reading any article that addresses the points I have previously broght up, time and again.... like:

why exchanges arent going to help lower prices
why getting more people into the insurance pool is a bad idea
etc

(I have a list of like 10 , that I haven't seen anyone post solid answers to)

You may be right, in that Obama care will suck or fail but:

1) we won't know for sure until we at least try
2) theres no better plan on the immediate table
3) the current system is broken
4) people are demanding some action

I'd rather try Obama care for 5 years and see it fail, and then start from scratch than continue down a decades long path of doing absolutely nothing but watching rates skyrocket from the sidelines.
I don't understand why a lot of these issues couldn't have been fixed through massive changes in fixing the efficiency of the health care system versus forcing exchanges.

Health care is really expensive because health care costs are out of control. The fear of exchanges isn't just about fear tactics. What has the government done to earn your trust that they can handle a responsibility this massive? Because every single estimate of the health care change predicates around the government doing things efficiently, and we know that's just not going to happen. The government is efficient at setting up one thing, let alone now having to set up 26 with completely different federal exchanges. This is going to be an administrative and operational nightmare, and unlike a health insurance company that can go under for poor expense management, the federal government has to be held responsible for their debt and pass a lot of that on to the taxpayer.
Posts: 19,636
chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 10:56 PM   #94
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is online now
MVP
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Casino cash: $127074
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I don't understand why a lot of these issues couldn't have been fixed through massive changes in fixing the efficiency of the health care system versus forcing exchanges.

Health care is really expensive because health care costs are out of control. The fear of exchanges isn't just about fear tactics. What has the government done to earn your trust that they can handle a responsibility this massive? Because every single estimate of the health care change predicates around the government doing things efficiently, and we know that's just not going to happen. The government is efficient at setting up one thing, let alone now having to set up 26 with completely different federal exchanges. This is going to be an administrative and operational nightmare, and unlike a health insurance company that can go under for poor expense management, the federal government has to be held responsible for their debt and pass a lot of that on to the taxpayer.
Let me sum this up more concisely...
This nightmare is basically about a bunch of politicians with no business experience setting up a massive business that is funded largely by the taxpayer. And this business cannot go out of business, it can only bleed more and more money.

There's your problem.
Posts: 19,636
chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:21 PM   #95
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $295
Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
Trying Obamacare is the equivelant of running from a bully over a cliff...well let's jump over we can't face that guy.
hype / scare tactic
__________________
**** Left CP 9-4-2013 **** Mod Harassment, requested by a more "in" user
Posts: 13,198
Pawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:26 PM   #96
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $295
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I don't understand why a lot of these issues couldn't have been fixed through massive changes in fixing the efficiency of the health care system versus forcing exchanges.
because huge businesses with lobbyists can't seem to be able to regulate themselves until after someone forces it on them...then somehow all of a sudden "they could've done it without being forced"

so many of these changes should've come a long time ago

I really dont see the difference between putting trust in a monopoly type of system over one that has REAL competition and comparison shopping built in...

can you explain why exchanges with standardized language and easily understandable comparison shopping is bad for the consumer?

Why is it a bad thing for a consumer to be able to join a group like an exchange and get a group rate rather than an individual rate?
__________________
**** Left CP 9-4-2013 **** Mod Harassment, requested by a more "in" user
Posts: 13,198
Pawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:27 PM   #97
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $295
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Let me sum this up more concisely...
This nightmare.......can only bleed more and more money.

There's your problem.
no facts , all hype, all scare
__________________
**** Left CP 9-4-2013 **** Mod Harassment, requested by a more "in" user
Posts: 13,198
Pawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:57 PM   #98
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is online now
MVP
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Casino cash: $127074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
because huge businesses with lobbyists can't seem to be able to regulate themselves until after someone forces it on them...then somehow all of a sudden "they could've done it without being forced"

so many of these changes should've come a long time ago

I really dont see the difference between putting trust in a monopoly type of system over one that has REAL competition and comparison shopping built in...

can you explain why exchanges with standardized language and easily understandable comparison shopping is bad for the consumer?

Why is it a bad thing for a consumer to be able to join a group like an exchange and get a group rate rather than an individual rate?
Because you assume that this exchange is going to happen just by making it so. Setting up these exchanges is going to require an unbelievable amount of administration and processes that the government is ill-equipped to manage. I've worked in property and casualty insurance. I can assure you that something as basic as building technology platforms across state lines is incredibly complex.

I am not right wing, even though I lean pretty heavily in that direction. I'm not opposed to regulation. As I've said before, a lot of the problems can be fixed through efficiency (transparent pricing, simplifying coding and billing, moving to electronic records, etc...). I don't see why regulation couldn't have shifted the market instead of this massive government intervention.
Posts: 19,636
chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:57 PM   #99
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is online now
MVP
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Casino cash: $127074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
no facts , all hype, all scare
What massive government program right now is giving you confidence that these exchanges can be run efficiently and at the budget level set?
Posts: 19,636
chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 12:52 AM   #100
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
Be HEALED!!!!!!!
 
KILLER_CLOWN's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fascist State
Casino cash: $11142616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
hype / scare tactic
Seriously there is NO sense in passing a bad bill, take your time and do it right. Obamacare is pure crap and will do nothing to address the real problems with health care/costs.
__________________
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father ... And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

"If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 24,192
KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.KILLER_CLOWN is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 02:09 AM   #101
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is online now
MVP
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Casino cash: $127074
Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
Seriously there is NO sense in passing a bad bill, take your time and do it right. Obamacare is pure crap and will do nothing to address the real problems with health care/costs.
Exactly. It will add costs of its own. We just won't see them because taxpayers, not health insurance customers, will foot the bill.

Every time I hear about what the health insurance exchange is going to require, I continue to hear $'s. People. People to manage people. Highly complex systems that need to load totally different rules for different states. People to process information that comes in. Customer service support. Technicians who can keep up with the constantly changing rules. And within these teams, you have managers, supervisors, and higher-level managers.

How much money will be and has been spent on promoting and educating on the exchange?

And how much money will be spent on inefficiencies? People you don't need? Poorly managed projects that fall behind schedule. Projects that get set back because poorly managed projects fell behind schedule.

But the good news is that Congress is running the business. Not, y'know, people who know how to run a business.

I am scared to see what the price tag is when all is said and done.
Posts: 19,636
chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 03:55 AM   #102
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $473425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Well, thats not exactly my position, it is slightly more complicated.

If you read my posts from before, my goal is to get more healthy people into the insurance pool. A Huge part of the problem isn't (as yuou said) healthy people using the ER in droves....Its healthy people who DO NOT HAVE INSURANCE and therefore are not in the insurance pool.....then they join only later in life when they are older and sicker....****ing up the pool even more and not spending their healthy years in it

If we had everyone in the pool from birth, the spread would be maximum....
I think getting everyone in the pool is a positive, but wrt cost, it's a one-time spreading of the cost. It does nothing to address the primary cost problem which is the much more rapid than inflation rising costs of health care.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,743
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 10:02 AM   #103
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
BucPatriot
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $107980
If someone doesn't want to participate in a market they should have the freedom to do, no matter what it costs anyone else. Otherwise, it's fascism.

I couldn't afford healthcare when I first got out of college and went without for about 3 years. Then got it by joining the national association for the self-employed which made it affordable. Around the later part of the '90s I dropped it due to rising premiums, for a temporary period. Instead it lasted for 7 years and I had a young child during that period. It was risky but I refused to play the game. Then got some via my spouse's employment when they added it, but even those premiums continually rose. So I called insurance as we moved around to different policies which promised premiums would not rise that much. Their answer to when they did rise, was the govt kept adding mandates and they had to pass on the costs. If I recall correctly, there was also something going on with phasing out PPOs in favor of HMOs, but I can't recall the specifics exactly.
__________________
“Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.” — James Madison

Last edited by BucEyedPea; 07-08-2013 at 10:34 AM..
Posts: 56,225
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 10:31 AM   #104
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
Supporter
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spink, SD
Casino cash: $54024
Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
Trying Obamacare is the equivelant of running from a bully over a cliff...well let's jump over we can't face that guy.
Exactly.
Posts: 24,875
mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 02:22 PM   #105
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $295
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
What massive government program right now is giving you confidence that these exchanges can be run efficiently and at the budget level set?
In my understanding the exchanges are just going to be a market where PRIVATE companies products (their health care line etc) can be compared and shopped for by consumers.

The exchange is just a way for private citizens to join together to get group rates, which are cheaper than a lone person.

The 'efficiency' is going to be the private companies issue, and I have faith in private companies that they will compete and find ways to succeed.
__________________
**** Left CP 9-4-2013 **** Mod Harassment, requested by a more "in" user
Posts: 13,198
Pawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.