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View Poll Results: Will these steps benefit you or your family?
No pre-existing conditions. 18 34.62%
No cap on benefits. 16 30.77%
Insurance companies can't drop you or your family if they get sick. 14 26.92%
Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26. 11 21.15%
Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund. 18 34.62%
More preventive services will be free. 16 30.77%
Screw Obamacare 33 63.46%
Gaz says I'm indifferent 3 5.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-03-2013, 08:06 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Will these Obamacare steps benefit you or your family?

Will these steps benefit you or your family?

  1. No pre-existing conditions.
  2. No cap on benefits. If I or a member of my family need to battle cancer, they will get the help they need.
  3. Insurance companies can't drop me or my family if we get sick.
  4. Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26.
  5. Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund.
  6. A shitload of preventive services will be free. Googled the list.http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskf...uspsabrecs.htm

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Old 07-09-2013, 09:47 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
All of this! Chiropractic quackery is already going to be covered by this crap. You may as well ****ing cover crystal therapy or some other voodoo nonsense. It's depressing.
Chiropractic is not quackery. Geezaz Cripes, that whole line originated from the AMA who tried to put a competing practice out of business. This all came out when they got sued. The medical profession has osteopaths who do adjustments too.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:57 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Will these steps benefit you or your family?

  1. No pre-existing conditions.
  2. No cap on benefits. If I or a member of my family need to battle cancer, they will get the help they need.
  3. Insurance companies can't drop me or my family if we get sick.
  4. Carrying your kids on your health insurance until the age of 26.
  5. Insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of all revenue on healthcare. If they go over, we get a refund.
  6. A shitload of preventive services will be free. Googled the list.http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskf...uspsabrecs.htm

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Old 07-09-2013, 10:07 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No pat, it was how you communicated it. So you got up to speed.
People with catastrophic care, are able to pay for the less expensive treatments and do not leech.
While I didn't spell everything out for you in my first post, your interpretation wasn't logical.

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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, this goes exactly to my point. You're tossing in the white flag and are now advocating central planning of a major portion of our economy because it's practical. It's very arguable that it's even practical.
It's far more than practical. It's embedded in our culture and that won't change short of a cataclysm. And no, I'm not advocating central planning of a major portion of our economy.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:29 AM   #139
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The FD ditto list has been tried for 100+ years. Our healthcare system is for shit. FD's list has failed. It has failed so miserably that we got Obamacare.
This is another bullshit cliche. We have not had that for 100 years. We've had a patchwork socialist healthcare systems starting in the 1960's or a 100 years of medical fascism. That's what you are actually observing and that's what you're complaining about. Yet, you ask for more of the same kind of solutions.

Progressives had attempted national health insurance as far back as 1912, even earlier, but this is when Teddy Roosevelt made it part of his platform. Also pushing for it were: AFL-CIO, the American Nurses Association, National Association of Social Workers, and the Socialist Party USA. Before that, the document that put us on this path was the Carnegie Foundation's Flexner Report which can only be seen and understood looking at where we are now.

However even earlier, mid 19th century, there were some incursions into markets but it was via licensing which created exclusion in health care markets toward alternative practices (competition) even though mainstream medicine included such practices as blood letting and injections of metalloid compounds which actually killed a lot people back then.

There is NO validity to the progressive-left's claim that hc markets have failed, since govt has encroached into the hc market piecemeal CAUSING today's problems. Instead markets get blamed.

It's the result of Fabian socialism at work. These guys are very patient. You're one of their useful idiots because you FAIL to recognize CAUSE and EFFECT. You IGNORE such things. Or you are seriously misinformed. You must get your information from TV like most people.


Later we get govt encroachment really stepping up with the following:
1960–Kerr-Mills Act– a Medical Assistance for the Aged (MAA) program
1962 – King-Anderson Bill –another attempt but it failed, but later was attempted again and became Medicare and Medicaid in 1965 under Johnson's Great Society agenda.
1973 – Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973
Federal grants and loans available to HMOs, removed certain state restrictions if HMOs became federally certified, and required employers with 25 or more employees who offered standard health-insurance benefits to offer federally approved HMO plans.
( There were earlier HMO's where people were forced to join via labor unions.)
Plus thousands of mandates and regulations over time in an attempt to control costs that DID NOT WORK!
Emergency Care Mandate- I don't know when this was passed but there's a lot of illegal aliens using this service.

What were the results? Ballooning Costs!
Like I said, the above programs' expenditures were at the expense of others in the larger healthcare market—ALL who had to pay more for insurance and HC while paying taxes to support the programs. NONE of the promised costs savings happened AND the costs of all the above programs themselves NEVER materialized. They wound up costing tons more than projected. Such things ALWAYS do.


Here's a good rundown of our medical history and the rise of health "insurance" by date but it's very long:

100 Years of Medical Fascism

BTW Obamacare has all kinds of Republican ideas in it too.

There is NO SUCH THING as FREE healthcare or FREE anything.
The market will have the last say regarding costs because supply and demand still apply. So govt controlling costs is a LIE. It can only spend on one area to the expense of another area.


Healthcare is ONLY AFFORDABLE under CAPITALISM!

SOCIALISM NEVER WORKS
whether used partially in a mixed economy or fully.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:35 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
While I didn't spell everything out for you in my first post, your interpretation wasn't logical.
Oh please, I quoted the line that wasn't clear. For some reason you are unable to take responsibility for how you communicated that, pat.

Quote:
It's far more than practical. It's embedded in our culture and that won't change short of a cataclysm.
You handle this with education and making the case do or die in the process IF you are for freedom.
That's the PRICE.

Quote:
And no, I'm not advocating central planning of a major portion of our economy.
You absolutely are doing that. You just need to be honest with yourself.
Healthcare is what, one sixth of our economy? Something like that. That's a major portion.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:50 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Right now its the insurances companies dictating what is available. Since they will gain monetarily if less preventive services are covered, they are definitely not the ones who should decide. but thats exactly who does now.

The preventive care list is done and decided. The link is in the opening post.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:21 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Oh please, I quoted the line that wasn't clear. For some reason you are unable to take responsibility for how you communicated that, pat.
Yes, you quoted it. And your interpretation makes no sense at all. For one thing, I didn't call anyone a leech. But more importantly, if you're paying for it, it's obvious you're not leeching. It makes no sense to assume I was talking about people who pay for catastrophic insurance. Read better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
You absolutely are doing that. You just need to be honest with yourself.
Healthcare is what, one sixth of our economy? Something like that. That's a major portion.
Again, read better. No where have I advocated that the government take over (or even control in any indirect fashion) our entire healthcare industry. I'm talking about a small sliver of that industry. That sliver isn't even close to 1/6th of our economy. It's probably less than 1/100th.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
You handle this with education and making the case do or die in the process IF you are for freedom.
That's the PRICE.
Let me know when you want to talk about reality. That position is as bad as the communists who believe in their own utopian fantasies.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:33 AM   #144
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Let me know when you want to talk about reality. That position is as bad as the communists who believe in their own utopian fantasies.
Well, you are just being a neo con here.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:36 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yes, you quoted it. And your interpretation makes no sense at all. For one thing, I didn't call anyone a leech. But more importantly, if you're paying for it, it's obvious you're not leeching. It makes no sense to assume I was talking about people who pay for catastrophic insurance. Read better.
There was no interpretation. You did not get your point across clearly. You told me that once and I rectified it. For some reason, your ego never allows you to admit an error.



Quote:
Again, read better.
Nope. Write better. It's not always the reader. It said what it said.

Quote:
No where have I advocated that the government take over (or even control in any indirect fashion) our entire healthcare industry. I'm talking about a small sliver of that industry. That sliver isn't even close to 1/6th of our economy. It's probably less than 1/100th.
You supported the idea of central planning by forcing everyone into one large pool for health insurance.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:43 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, you are just being a neo con here.
Neocon definition #68: Someone who deals in reality.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:57 AM   #147
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Neocon definition #68: Someone who deals in reality.
Nope. Deals with reality as a leftist would. I am aware of the current reality. I just refuse to give into it. I have integrity.
That reality won't work either. The market will still have the last say.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:34 PM   #148
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Nope. Deals with reality as a leftist would. I am aware of the current reality. I just refuse to give into it. I have integrity.
That reality won't work either. The market will still have the last say.
Your utopia is no more viable than the communists'.
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:33 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
The FD ditto list has been tried for 100+ years. Our healthcare system is for shit. FD's list has failed. It has failed so miserably that we got Obamacare.
The issue is government imposed minimum standards. The market has not failed on this, explain what the problem is with current health insurance coverage standards?
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:02 PM   #150
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Dick Durbin is finally waking up. He is calling for major changes to ObamaCare. When Dickie runs away from Obama it shows how bad OCare is. And how huge this shitstain is on democrats running for office.
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