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Old 07-01-2013, 09:33 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Egyptian protestors storming Muslim Brotherhood HQ, demanding Morsi's removal.

The ugly business of budding democracies.

Happening before our very eyes. This is explosive.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...850692648.html

Egypt opposition to continue mass protests
Seat of the powerful Muslim Brotherhood to which President Morsi belongs set on fire as protesters push for his removal.
Last Modified: 01 Jul 2013 12:45

Protesters seeking to force Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi from office are gearing up for a second day of action, after large crowds thronged the streets of Cairo and cities around the country and marched on the presidential palace.

In the capital, the seat of the powerful Muslim Brotherhood to which Morsi belongs, was set ablaze before people stormed and looted the building, an AFP correspondent there said.

People were seen leaving with petrol bombs, helmets, flak jackets, furniture, televisions and documents.

Some preparing for rallies on Monday spent the night in dozens of tents pitched at Cairo's central Tahrir Square and the palace, positions organisers say they will hold until Morsi resigns.

In fewer numbers, supporters of the Egyptian president came out on Sunday to show their support and defend what they called the president’s "legitimacy".

As anger against Morsi swept the streets, at least six people were killed and more than 600 wounded in clashes between the pro and anti-Morsi groups, the Reuters news agency reported.

The main opposition Tamarod - Arabic for rebellion - movement, which led the demonstrations, gave Morsi a deadline of Tuesday to quit, threatening a campaign of civil disobedience if he stays.

The number of people who joined in protests on Sunday, the anniversary of Morsi's first year in office, was between 14m and 17m people, the interior ministry told Al Jazeera.

"It is absolutely fair to say that an unprecedented number of Egyptians went to the streets accross the country," said Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel Hamid, reporting from Cairo.

She added that a statement from Morsi during the protests was not welcomed by many, as it did not offer anything new.

In the message released on Sunday, he said: "I believe we can come together and find a way that builds our country," and he could "engage in national dialogue."

In its statement, Tamarod urged "state institutions including the army, the police and the judiciary to clearly side with the popular will as represented by the crowds."

The group also rejected presidential calls for dialogue, saying: "There is no way to accept any halfway measures.

"There is no alternative other than the peaceful end of power of the Muslim Brotherhood and its representative, Mohamed Morsi."

Morsi supporters

A few kilometres away from the presidential palace, thousands of Morsi supporters also staged their own sit-in to show support for their president.

"If we are saying that we have a majority, and the opposition are saying that they have a majority, how can they decide?" asked Nader Omran, a spokesman for the Freedom and Justice Party, the political wing of the Muslim Brotherhood.

"What is the other solution for this dilemma, except the ballot box?"

Presidential spokesman Omar Amer said Morsi was serious in his repeated calls for national dialogue.

"[Morsi] announced to all of Egypt's people he made mistakes and that he is in the process of fixing these mistakes," Amer told a late-night news conference.

The duelling rallies on Sunday only further highlighted the deepening political polarisation in Egypt.

Morsi supporters are full of praise for his first year in office, insisting that the president has strengthened civilian rule in Egypt and done his best to manage a failing economy.

Many of them dismissed Sunday’s protests as the work of ex-regime figures and “thugs”, fuelled by a hostile media and Western governments.

Anti-government protesters, on the other hand, dismissed Morsi’s first term as a failure and described him as a dictatorial leader. Many accused him of backing the Palestinian group Hamas and other armed groups; one well-dressed man in Tahrir insisted that Morsi planned to cede the Sinai peninsula to Hamas.

But their main complaint was the worsening economy, which has been in free-fall since Morsi took office, with the Egyptian pound losing nearly 20 percent of its value and industry crippled by fuel and electricity shortages.

"He's borrowed money from everyone in the world," said Said Ahmed, referring to $11bn in loans Egypt has received from Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey to prop up the economy. "Who's going to pay for that? Our children."
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:30 PM   #166
Saul Good Saul Good is online now
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Direckshun expands the conversation from Egypt to the Middle East:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Yeah, the massacre from yesterday is going to **** up everything.

I honestly fear the country is careening towards civil war.

Considering how important Egypt is to the Middle East, I fear this could single-handedly unwind the ground gained from the Arab Spring.
Pat expounds on the comment:

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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Now if you were talking about Iraq, I completely agree that the hard-fought ground gained has been frivolously squandered.
Direckshun criticizes Pat for not focusing solely on Egypt:

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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
That's a topic for another thread, as this one is squarely focused on the turmoil in Egypt.

If you want to start another thread on Iraq, I will follow you there.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:32 PM   #167
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Nah, we can focus on the Obama administration's failures in Egypt for now.
Ya' mean the fact that the US is behind the military coup of Morsi? That failure?
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:40 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Ya' mean the fact that the US is behind the military coup of Morsi? That failure?
Are we? If so, it's too little, too late. The failures started much earlier.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:06 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Are we? If so, it's too little, too late. The failures started much earlier.
Yes we are. Ron Paul wrote about it. Also, Eric Margolis. Afterall, it was the Obama administration that gave their military the recent military aid. The military did the coup. The military really runs the show, Morsi's hands were tied. All of Mubarek's beaucrats and officials remained intact anyway.

You need better reading material.
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“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:34 PM   #170
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Its just hard for me to believe all of the handwringing coming from our government, as well as some people here.

That group needed thrown out on thier ear quickly, and thank God they were, sure they handily won a democratic election... but then they immediately turned around and started unilaterally granting themselves dictator-like powers and doing all they could to marginalize religious minorities and secularists.

I remember watching a great Frontline episode while the push to oust Mubarek was going on, they were following one of the real up and coming young stars of the brotherhood around, a "modern moderate" in western style clothes... at two different points while they're following him and his entourage around the streets, he had to pull two of his lieutenants aside and tell them to shut up because they were starting to rant and rave their extreme ideology at others in the crowd and also at the camera.

It was painfully obvious then, that their "moderate, modern" public statements were nothing but a sham intended to woo the real moderates and progressives to their side... until such a time they could consolidate power and begin to show their true colors, which is exactly what happened and why Morsi was canned.

We need to be supporting their military all we can right now, thats almost the only pragmatic, sane institution IN that country at the moment, outside of elements of their judiciary.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:15 AM   #171
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:00 AM   #172
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Dylan posted some excerpts from their constitution in post 89. Given this constitution, the way it was put through, and the pluralistic nature of Egyptian society, the fact that Morsi was elected in a democratic election doesn't really lend legitimacy to his office. Democratic rule without respect of minority positions and protection of individual liberty doesn't carry moral authority or deserve the support of the military or the favor of the US.
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