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Old 07-10-2013, 02:26 PM  
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
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NSA tapped fiber cables to collect data

WASHINGTON, July 10 (UPI) -- The National Security Agency, which collected cellphone and online data from technology companies, also tapped fiber cables, The Washington Post said Wednesday.

The newspaper said it has obtained a classified NSA slide listing "two types of collection," showing the agency had a data collection category called "Upstream" that accessed "communications on fiber cables and infrastructure as data flows past."

That was in addition to PRISM, which collects information from technology companies and has been widely reported by the Post and Britain's Guardian newspaper.

The slide does not make clear the ways in which Upstream and PRISM interact but it instructs intelligence analysts to use both methods, the Post said Wednesday.

A former judge on the secret U.S. court overseeing government surveillance requests says he was shocked by changes forcing the court to OK blanket surveillance.

The U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court "has turned into something like an administrative agency," retired U.S. District Judge James Robertson testified during a hearing of a federal oversight board, directed by President Barack Obama to examine government spying and civil liberties after rogue National Security Agency systems analyst Edward Snowden leaked significant information about the NSA's spying program.

"A judge needs to hear both sides of a case," Robertson, who served on the secret surveillance court from 2002 to 2005, told the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board in the first public hearings since Snowden's revelations.

"What FISA does is not adjudication, but approval," Robertson said, referring to the court by its shorthand moniker, after the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that created it.

"This works just fine when it deals with individual applications for warrants," Robertson continued. "But the 2008 amendment has turned the FISA court into administrative agency making rules for others to follow.

"It is not the bailiwick of judges to make policy," he said.

Robertson's comments were the first significant public criticism from a current or former FISA judge. FISA judges until now mainly spoke anonymously to defend the court process, British newspaper The Guardian said.

The 11-member FISA court, created to provide legal oversight and protect against unnecessary privacy intrusions, originally focused mostly on approving case-by-case wiretapping orders.

After Congress' 2008 reform of the FISA system, the court had greater oversight of intelligence operations and was required to approve entire surveillance systems, or what Robertson called "programmatic surveillance," rather than just surveillance warrants.

This turned the court almost into a parallel Supreme Court, serving as the ultimate arbiter on surveillance issues, current and former officials familiar with the court's classified decisions told The New York Times last week.

FISA court opinions will most likely shape intelligence practices for years to come, the officials said.

Robertson testified Tuesday he was "stunned" by the Times report, which said the FISA court had created a secret body of law empowering the NSA to amass vast amounts of data on Americans while pursuing not only terrorism suspects, but also people possibly involved in espionage, cyberattacks and nuclear proliferation.

He said he was originally impressed with how "careful, fastidious and scrupulous" the court process was but said with the court's expanded role, the so-called ex parte system, in which only the federal government is allowed to make its case before the court, needed immediate reform.

"This process needs an adversary. If it's not the ACLU or Amnesty [International], perhaps the PCLOB can be that adversary," Robertson said.

Oversight board members shook their heads and rolled their eyes at the suggestion their board serve as adversary, The Guardian reported.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/...#ixzz2Yfz4LuzK
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:24 AM   #31
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It's not improbable at all. Data like that is highly valued by all marketers and they'd love to get that kind of data. So I can see an incumbent using his advantages as an incumbent to use it. It's bound to happen, that's why it should never be allowed to be such a broad use. It will eventually get abused. You trust the state and politicians way too much to be considered a libertarian or conservative. You're very naive. Including about marketers.

I mean why do you think all those contests are being used by companies? To get your email to market to you. More data in a profile is always a plus. That's how Obama's campaign used it, to more easily target certain groups with certain promotions.

Makes total sense and highly probable.
You're talking about a pretty big conspiracy that includes Federal judges on the FISA court and professionals at the NSA who have no particular interest in getting Obama re-elected. It's not like David Axelrod can just call up the NSA database on his macbook pro and run a query from his office. It's super improbable. It's two ticks shy of impossible.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:24 AM   #32
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I've always wondered why the ends of hot dogs blew out when you microwave them. Must be the cameras.

How'd you like to be the clam that reports on microwave usage? "DAY 15 IN BROWN HOUSEHOLD STOP THREE HOT DOGS BLOWN OUT TWO BAGS OF POPCORN BURNED SIX BOWLS OF OATMEAL HEATED UP STOP MICROWAVE ALMOST DESTROYED DUE TO DRUNKEN MR BROWN HEATING UP A HAMBURGER WHILE STILL WRAPPED IN FOIL WRAPPINGS STOP WLL CONTINUE OBSERVATIONS WHILE BROWN HOUSEHOLD IS LABELED MAGENTA LEVEL THREAT STOP"
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:24 AM   #33
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm starting to have serious concerns here.
There's going to be all kinds of technology developing where things like that can happen. It's even going into cars. And some of it is being federally mandated to be put in. We already live in an emerging police state with militarization and federalization of local police. You're very naive.

I see technology also developing for the other side too. It's still no reason to start curbing such use by the states.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:25 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You're talking about a pretty big conspiracy that includes Federal judges on the FISA court and professionals at the NSA who have no particular interest in getting Obama re-elected. It's not like David Axelrod can just call up the NSA database on his macbook pro and run a query from his office.
It's not a conspiracy if people know about it and are writing about it. It's just to be expected as technology advances and govts will want to use it too. It's just human nature.
Which is why govt should be limited.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:26 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
This guy wants to bring the ACLU or Amnesty Int'l into the US intelligence process? No thanks.

Yeah, I'm fine with the NSA running amok and spying in any way they see fit - especially with a socialist in the White House.

I would have never believed the U.S. government could have brought me to the point of thinking the ACLU was our only hope to save the country.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:28 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It's not a conspiracy if people know about it and are writing about it. It's just to be expected as technology advances and govts will want to use it too. It's just human nature.
Which is why govt should be limited.
No one knows about it. I doubt that anyone is writing about it. It didn't really happen.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:29 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No one knows about it. I doubt that anyone is writing about it. It didn't really happen.
That's what they WANT YOU TO BELIEVE!!1
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:31 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It's not a conspiracy if people know about it and are writing about it.


How can any reasonable person think this, let alone write it down?
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:32 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No one knows about it. I doubt that anyone is writing about it. It didn't really happen.
I saw a special on TV about it.Many people spoke on it and some were interviewed. So some people do know about it. And I can see this president doing it. Or any other politician. You remind me of what people did to people in the former Soviet Union when they saw a beautiful home disguised behind some gates. "You did not see that!"

Sorry, you don't want to BELIEVE it! You're living in the 1980's with regard to what technology can and is doing.

Now what about RFID chips in more and more products, even ones that don't really need them?
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:37 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well I read that there's a chip that can be put in microwave ovens that is a camera and can
photograph you right in your own home. I'm so glad I don't use toxic crappy microwave ovens to cook.
Why would it be in a microwave oven? WTF?

At least say in a TV, that would be more believable.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:40 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well I read that there's a chip that can be put in microwave ovens that is a camera and can
photograph you right in your own home. I'm so glad I don't use toxic crappy microwave ovens to cook.
Ahhh, yes. Your illogical fear of microwave ovens. What is it you believe? They do something magical to the food they heat that makes it toxic? Is that about right?

Now these perplexing household death ray machines are spying for the NSA?

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Old 07-11-2013, 10:43 AM   #42
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Ahhh, yes. Your illogical fear of microwave ovens. What is it you believe? They do something magical to the food they heat that makes it toxic? Is that about right?
It's not illogical. What's illogical is your logical fallacies here, assuming that, with no evidence because you're ignorant about nutrition, cooking for best flavor or preserving most nutrients. Ever wonder why even water tastes different after microwaving something? Just try some tea with traditional boiling over microwaved water to make tea. Ugh!

You need to watch some Martha Stewart.

Quote:
Now these perplexing household death ray machines are spying for the NSA?
Strawman much?

Remember, a drone can eventually be made as small as a mosquito too.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:44 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It's not illogical. What's illogical is you assuming that, with no evidence because you're ignorant about nutrition on cooking for best flavor or preserving most nutrients. Ever wonder why even water tastes different after microwaving something? Just try some tea with traditional boiling over microwaved water to make tea. Ugh!
Do you even know how microwave ovens work?
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:46 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I saw a special on TV about it.Many people spoke on it and some were interviewed. So some people do know about it. And I can see this president doing it. Or any other politician. You remind me of what people did to people in the former Soviet Union when they saw a beautiful home disguised behind some gates. "You did not see that!"

Sorry, you don't want to BELIEVE it! You're living in the 1980's with regard to what technology can and is doing.

Now what about RFID chips in more and more products, even ones that don't really need them?
Just because something CAN be done doesn't mean it actually is, honey.

You really are starting to remind me of the gal in that State Farm commercial.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:48 AM   #45
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Do you even know how microwave ovens work?
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