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Old 07-10-2013, 02:26 PM  
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NSA tapped fiber cables to collect data

WASHINGTON, July 10 (UPI) -- The National Security Agency, which collected cellphone and online data from technology companies, also tapped fiber cables, The Washington Post said Wednesday.

The newspaper said it has obtained a classified NSA slide listing "two types of collection," showing the agency had a data collection category called "Upstream" that accessed "communications on fiber cables and infrastructure as data flows past."

That was in addition to PRISM, which collects information from technology companies and has been widely reported by the Post and Britain's Guardian newspaper.

The slide does not make clear the ways in which Upstream and PRISM interact but it instructs intelligence analysts to use both methods, the Post said Wednesday.

A former judge on the secret U.S. court overseeing government surveillance requests says he was shocked by changes forcing the court to OK blanket surveillance.

The U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court "has turned into something like an administrative agency," retired U.S. District Judge James Robertson testified during a hearing of a federal oversight board, directed by President Barack Obama to examine government spying and civil liberties after rogue National Security Agency systems analyst Edward Snowden leaked significant information about the NSA's spying program.

"A judge needs to hear both sides of a case," Robertson, who served on the secret surveillance court from 2002 to 2005, told the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board in the first public hearings since Snowden's revelations.

"What FISA does is not adjudication, but approval," Robertson said, referring to the court by its shorthand moniker, after the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that created it.

"This works just fine when it deals with individual applications for warrants," Robertson continued. "But the 2008 amendment has turned the FISA court into administrative agency making rules for others to follow.

"It is not the bailiwick of judges to make policy," he said.

Robertson's comments were the first significant public criticism from a current or former FISA judge. FISA judges until now mainly spoke anonymously to defend the court process, British newspaper The Guardian said.

The 11-member FISA court, created to provide legal oversight and protect against unnecessary privacy intrusions, originally focused mostly on approving case-by-case wiretapping orders.

After Congress' 2008 reform of the FISA system, the court had greater oversight of intelligence operations and was required to approve entire surveillance systems, or what Robertson called "programmatic surveillance," rather than just surveillance warrants.

This turned the court almost into a parallel Supreme Court, serving as the ultimate arbiter on surveillance issues, current and former officials familiar with the court's classified decisions told The New York Times last week.

FISA court opinions will most likely shape intelligence practices for years to come, the officials said.

Robertson testified Tuesday he was "stunned" by the Times report, which said the FISA court had created a secret body of law empowering the NSA to amass vast amounts of data on Americans while pursuing not only terrorism suspects, but also people possibly involved in espionage, cyberattacks and nuclear proliferation.

He said he was originally impressed with how "careful, fastidious and scrupulous" the court process was but said with the court's expanded role, the so-called ex parte system, in which only the federal government is allowed to make its case before the court, needed immediate reform.

"This process needs an adversary. If it's not the ACLU or Amnesty [International], perhaps the PCLOB can be that adversary," Robertson said.

Oversight board members shook their heads and rolled their eyes at the suggestion their board serve as adversary, The Guardian reported.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/...#ixzz2Yfz4LuzK
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:30 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No the body does not. Since you're a franken food defender and everything else done by the state you probably believe the govt food pyramid is healthy too.

I used to believe the MV preserved nutrients for vegetables due to less cooking time, but not for other things particularly meat. But my nutritionist-wholistic doctor disabused me of that idea too.

It's not a silly belief—that's just your silly and quite frankly, bigoted and intolerant opinion.
.... My nutritionist-shaman-carpet upholsterer told me otherwise.

I'm intolerant of ignorance. Which tends to rub ignorant people the wrong way. I'm not sure how you claim bigotry though.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:30 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
Thread hijacking complete.
Look at these poor, unsuspecting girls...

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Old 07-11-2013, 11:33 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Look at these poor, unsuspecting girls...

That looks more like a conventional oven, correct me if i'm wrong.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:36 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
That looks more like a conventional oven, correct me if i'm wrong.
Well, he's also strawmanning like crazy now! Earlier, I mentioned tiny cameras being installed due to the thread title, not that the MV itself took pictures. Just because I called the MV toxic for cooking, which I have stated many times here, is what Donger had to strawman onto. He obviously has nothing to refute my original position with. This is why he has to rely on his use of logical fallacies.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:36 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
That looks more like a conventional oven, correct me if i'm wrong.
Yeah, there are RFID chips in those, too. You don't think they'll stop at just microwave ovens, do you!!!!WE#?
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:38 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I mentioned tiny cameras being installed due to the thread title, not that the MV itself took pictures.
So, you actually believe that "they" are installing tiny cameras in microwaves, yes?
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yeah, there are RFID chips in those, too. You don't think they'll stop at just microwave ovens, do you!!!!WE#?
Not sure what that means, but does the We on the end mean you have to tinkle?
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #83
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Not sure what that means, but does the We on the end mean you have to tinkle?
Sorry, I got really excited.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #84
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.... My nutritionist-shaman-carpet upholsterer told me otherwise.

I'm intolerant of ignorance. Which tends to rub ignorant people the wrong way. I'm not sure how you claim bigotry though.
No you're not. Your a bigot about opinions you find out of your depth because they're not mainstream. People who don't understand such things tend to laugh at them. But liberals and progressives have always been intolerant of other opinions outside their own. I assure you, you are the one who is ignorant here on natural nutrition just by your use of the word "shaman." You're also ignorant on good food flavor probably never experienced it....I find that common in midwesterners. On the other hand, I am a gourmet cook who has studied nutrition since college. The natural kind. It's amazing how this market is growing as people become better educated...and less trusting of govt backed or sponsored sources.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:40 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
With groundbreaking science like this, who can argue?

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Humans are the only animals on the planet who destroy the nutritional value of their food before eating it. All other animals consume food in its natural, unprocessed state, but humans actually go out of their way to render food nutritionally worthless before eating it.
Here's a shocking revelation.. The article is true in that microwaving does remove nutritional value. But what they leave out, is that the exact same thing happens when boiling, or grilling. It's a natural process of cooking, despite the method of heating. In many ways, other cooking methods remove much more nutritional value than microwaving. You could replace "Microwaving" with "Boiling", and the same scary claims would also be true. Platypuses don't boil their food like humans do. Boiling food is toxic!!
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:42 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
With groundbreaking science like this, who can argue?



Here's a shocking revelation.. The article is true in that microwaving does remove nutritional value. But what they leave out, is that the exact same thing happens when boiling, or grilling. It's a natural process of cooking, despite the method of heating. In many ways, other cooking methods remove much more nutritional value than microwaving. You could replace "Microwaving" with "Boiling", and the same scary claims would also be true. Platypuses don't boil their food like humans do. Boiling food is toxic!!
Well, I am also anti-boiling of many foods too. Except poached eggs which are my favored...organic and free-range. This is why I steam, use parchment, try to eat enough raw. But meat should be slow cooked on low to preserve most nutrients. Raw eggs, raw milk and even raw red meat as also better for you but the mainstreamers scream BACTERIA or ECOLI! Don't ev'r!!!!

Have you tried food grown above the pollution line?
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:45 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
With groundbreaking science like this, who can argue?



Here's a shocking revelation.. The article is true in that microwaving does remove nutritional value. But what they leave out, is that the exact same thing happens when boiling, or grilling. It's a natural process of cooking, despite the method of heating. In many ways, other cooking methods remove much more nutritional value than microwaving. You could replace "Microwaving" with "Boiling", and the same scary claims would also be true. Platypuses don't boil their food like humans do. Boiling food is toxic!!
Well he does mention that you should eat foods raw towards the end of the article, so it's not exactly misleading. I still contend that Microwaves do more harm than other methods.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:49 AM   #88
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Thread hijacking complete.
Concur. Back to topic: I was surprised to learn how much data flows through undersea/ground lines vice air/satellite. So protecting sea lines of communication for the U.S. Navy is literal in this case. The protection and mining of this data becomes obvious and these programs are fairly old. The issue is whether we should mine it or not as part of our national security and frankly I don't know.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:50 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No you're not. Your a bigot about opinions you find out of your depth because they're not mainstream. People who don't understand such things tend to laugh at them. But liberals and progressives have always been intolerant of other opinions outside their own. I assure you, you are the one who is ignorant here on natural nutrition just by your use of the word "shaman." You're also ignorant on good food flavor probably never experienced it....I find that common in midwesterners. On the other hand, I am a gourmet cook who has studied nutrition since college. The natural kind. It's amazing how this market is growing as people become better educated...and less trusting of govt backed or sponsored sources.
I'm bigoted towards opinions? You keep using that word. I don't think it means, what you think it means.

I understand how a microwave works, and how it heats food. It's not rocket surgery. You can argue taste if you like, as that is subjective. But your claims of microwave toxicity are outright absurd. I'm sure you're a swell chef and all. But that doesn't exactly give credence to your microwave toxicity claim. Or claims of microwave camera spying...
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:50 AM   #90
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Okay, be right back.
My NSA buddy said that he "was too busy to help right now" but would get back to me.
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