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Old 07-22-2013, 06:59 AM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Texas Law Allows For Killing Hookers Who Won't Do You

Jury Acquits Texas Man For Murder Of Escort Who Refused Sex
http://tinyurl.com/keue7sf

By Nicole Flat

Texas jury acquitted a man for the murder of a woman he hired as an escort, after his lawyers claimed he was authorized to use deadly force because she refused sex.

Ezekiel Gilbert shot Lenora Ivie Frago in the neck on Christmas Eve, after she denied his requests for sex and wouldn’t return the $150 he had paid her, according to the San Antonio Express-News.

Under Texas law, an individual is authorized to use deadly force to “retrieve stolen property at night,” and Gilbert’s lawyers cited that provision as justification for Gilbert’s action, reasoning that Frago had stolen $150 from him by taking his money without delivering sex.

In a police interview played for jurors, Gilbert “never mentioned anything about theft,” a detective told the San Antonio Express-News. Frago, who was 21, was critically injured and died several months later.

While the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida has generated notoriety for NRA-backed Stand Your Ground laws, which authorize the unfettered use of deadly force without a duty to retreat in defense of one’s person or home, Texas’ exceedingly broad law goes well beyond this, to allow deadly force in protection of any piece of “tangible” or “movable” property.

The Texas provision authorizes deadly force not only to “retrieve stolen property at night” but also during “criminal mischief in the nighttime” and even to prevent someone who is fleeing immediately after a theft during the night or a burglary or robbery, so long as the individual “reasonably” thinks the property cannot be protected by other means.

This shockingly broad statute authorizes individuals to take not just law enforcement, but punishment, into their own hands and impose death for alleged offenses that would never warrant the death penalty even if the person were convicted in court. But even in light of the expansive vigilante justice made legal by the statute, it is difficult to see how Gilbert’s behavior was justified, given that escorts are not entitled to deliver sex under the law, and delivering sex for money is an illegal transaction.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:19 PM   #106
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
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I have no problem with defending yourself and your family from harm/death, but I can't imagine the line of thinking that allows one to justify taking the life of another simply for taking their stuff. I mean, I could see a Muslim extremist or a sociopath making such an argument, but otherwise it doesn't seem to pass the Christian/moral sniff test that I (and I assume many others) grew up with.
Really? Then why not post your address and list of stuff... See how you feel about it when you pull up to your house to watch a few guys packing up all your stuff. Of course they will tell you, "we mean you no harm - just taking your stuff!" I'm sure you'll be happy to oblige them.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:31 PM   #107
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Whatever. You've stolen stuff in your life, I have, everyone has. I used to steal food and drinks all the time from the grocery store I worked at in HS. We stole beer and booze from people's docksites at the lake. On and on. Nobody effing shot us for it. And nobody shot you when you stole.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:50 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Whatever. You've stolen stuff in your life, I have, everyone has. I used to steal food and drinks all the time from the grocery store I worked at in HS. We stole beer and booze from people's docksites at the lake. On and on. Nobody effing shot us for it. And nobody shot you when you stole.
#1 not everyone steals shit, I certainly haven't.
#2 if someone HAD shot you for stealing from someone's docksite I guarantee your friends would have stopped
#3 you are proving my point by showing how easy is it for dirtbags to justify theft simply because most of the time there is no chance of retribution.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:15 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
#1 not everyone steals shit, I certainly haven't.
#2 if someone HAD shot you for stealing from someone's docksite I guarantee your friends would have stopped
#3 you are proving my point by showing how easy is it for dirtbags to justify theft simply because most of the time there is no chance of retribution.
1) Even if you've NEVER stolen, you've probably done something in your life that some loon would think you deserve to die over.

2) Gang members get shot at, do they stop???

3) I too did things like PB as a teenager. I got caught, I made restitution, I grew up. If I hadn't grown up, I'd likely be in prison. A few weeks ago, I found someone's wallet on the street, I mailed it to them intact.

4) A few months ago someone sideswiped my car. To me it would be insane for it to be legal if I could open fire on their car if I'd seen them driving off.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:22 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
1) Even if you've NEVER stolen, you've probably done something in your life that some loon would think you deserve to die over.

2) Gang members get shot at, do they stop???

3) I too did things like PB as a teenager. I got caught, I made restitution, I grew up. If I hadn't grown up, I'd likely be in prison. A few weeks ago, I found someone's wallet on the street, I mailed it to them intact.

4) A few months ago someone sideswiped my car. To me it would be insane for it to be legal if I could open fire on their car if I'd seen them driving off.
1) So it's now "looney" to try to stop someone who is in the act of stealing from you. And yes I'm sure some loon may think I deserve to be shot... but unless I am in the act of stealing from them they don't get that "luxury". You're acting as if this is some sort of license to execute people. It is nothing of the sort. It's primary purpose is to stop a theft in progress.

2) totally different dynamic and you know it

3) and had you not been caught maybe you would have continued to be a scumbag and continued your thieving ways... you've proven the point that it often takes getting caught or some other tangible threat to stop people from this shit... I'd call the threat of being shot fairly tangible

4) what the hell does this have to do with it? That isn't theft. Shooting at them does nothing to help you recover your property and wouldn't be protected by the law.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:32 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Whatever. You've stolen stuff in your life, I have, everyone has. I used to steal food and drinks all the time from the grocery store I worked at in HS. We stole beer and booze from people's docksites at the lake. On and on. Nobody effing shot us for it. And nobody shot you when you stole.
So you're a thief. Don't assume everybody else is.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:38 PM   #112
KChiefer KChiefer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
1) So it's now "looney" to try to stop someone who is in the act of stealing from you. And yes I'm sure some loon may think I deserve to be shot... but unless I am in the act of stealing from them they don't get that "luxury". You're acting as if this is some sort of license to execute people. It is nothing of the sort. It's primary purpose is to stop a theft in progress.

2) totally different dynamic and you know it

3) and had you not been caught maybe you would have continued to be a scumbag and continued your thieving ways... you've proven the point that it often takes getting caught or some other tangible threat to stop people from this shit... I'd call the threat of being shot fairly tangible

4) what the hell does this have to do with it? That isn't theft. Shooting at them does nothing to help you recover your property and wouldn't be protected by the law.
1) a person's life is worth more than a bicycle. Only low-lifes kill over stuff like that.

2) Not all that different. They are things to gain in being in a gang. People do it even though they know they may be shot.

3) That is my point. If someone doesn't stop, they will be caught. My other point is that people should be given a chance to learn from mistakes like committing petty theft.

4) Retrieving stolen property / Insuring restitution for destroyed property, you don't see a similarity??? If I shoot them, I can now detain them so I can get a copy of their insurance. If they just drive off, I cannot.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:49 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
um, no. He could have been TRYING to kill her and he still wouldn't get convicted in Texas. Motivation has nothing to do with it. She was a ****ing thief and the LAW is... if you take my property (at night) and try to run off then I am justified in using deadly force to recover my property. Period. And it's a fantastic law. My only complaint is the "night" part of it. That needs to go.
The entire law is terrible. It's property. PROPERTY. Nobody deserves to lose a human life for that. I am more or less fine with what happened with Zimmerman, if it actually happened the way he described, and he was held down and he shot. Fine. I don't even care if he was the one who first confronted Trayvon, it was at least self defense or conceivably self defense. But it amazes me that if someone steals your TV, and is running away down the street, you can just light them up, in cold blood. It is a ridiculous law, and the sad part is sooo many ppl want someone to come mess with them just so they can kill someone. They will even tell you that to your face. That is the definition of a psychopath if you ask me.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:30 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
1) a person's life is worth more than a bicycle. Only low-lifes risk their lives over stuff like that.
fyp

fun facts on recidivism:

Released prisoners with the highest rearrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).


anecdotal story:
two people i knew growing up, i'll call them c and j

c burglarized many cars and homes, got caught a few times with guns, stolen stuff. in and out of jail for robbing. finally went to federal prison 5 years or so. is out now.

j was doing the same bad stuff, never went to prison. one day someone shot at the car he was riding in and he got hit with a bullet.

the one who got some real pain changed his life, the other didn't.
what does that mean? real painful consequences make a person think and make changes? maybe, maybe not.
does that mean if public caning was standard punishment for petty theft, the theft rate would go down? hmm, i dunno.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:09 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Whatever. You've stolen stuff in your life, I have, everyone has. I used to steal food and drinks all the time from the grocery store I worked at in HS. We stole beer and booze from people's docksites at the lake. On and on. Nobody effing shot us for it. And nobody shot you when you stole.
Your name seems even more fitting now.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:30 AM   #116
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
#1 not everyone steals shit, I certainly haven't.
#2 if someone HAD shot you for stealing from someone's docksite I guarantee your friends would have stopped
#3 you are proving my point by showing how easy is it for dirtbags to justify theft simply because most of the time there is no chance of retribution.
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So you're a thief. Don't assume everybody else is.
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Originally Posted by nstygma View Post
fun facts on recidivism:
All this.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:35 AM   #117
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So you're a thief. Don't assume everybody else is.
So you're a thief and a liar. Cool.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:47 AM   #118
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
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3) and had you not been caught maybe you would have continued to be a scumbag and continued your thieving ways... you've proven the point that it often takes getting caught or some other tangible threat to stop people from this shit... I'd call the threat of being shot fairly tangible.
Why stop there? Why not the threat of beheading someone? I mean, your vinyl record collection is YOUR SHIT DAMMIT! And that $15k collection of jewelry in your wife's dresser? Insurance covers it sure, but chopping off a head is more fun than filing an insurance claim.


Who needs cops and insurance adjusters when we have Charles Bronson wannabes?
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:02 AM   #119
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I've NEVER stolen a thing in my entire life. Couldn't and can't do it.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:50 AM   #120
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Here is an idea. Instead of breaking into peoples houses, committing home invasions and car jackings, how about go and get a damn job and try to be a productive citizen. Your chance of incarceration and death will be much lower.
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