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Old 07-30-2013, 08:36 AM  
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:52 PM   #121
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Never mind them it's all Carl Petersons fault for passing on Dan Marino and taking Todd Blackledge. True fans are still hung over, over Todd Blackledge. It's the Todd Blackledge curse.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:53 PM   #122
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Waaay too early to say Fisher is no great shakes.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:55 PM   #123
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Right. Tackle.

#1 overall.

Cute. Really ****ing funny. Haha.
You can keep saying this, but I'm sure they had every intention of trading Albert. Or, maybe not. Who knows?

But, go ahead and stay mad about it. It will change, I'm sure...
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:55 PM   #124
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What does that prove anyways? Teams passed over Tom Brady into the 6th round so what does that say about teams evaluations?

The truth is NOBODY knows until they play the game on any player, it's all the best guess work they got.
Yeah, everybody that's dropped to the sixth round is Tom Brady.
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Geno > Cam
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:59 PM   #125
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Right. Tackle.

#1 overall.

Cute. Really ****ing funny. Haha.
Five offensive linemen in the Top Ten.

Three defensive linemen in the Top Ten.

One cornerback in the Top Ten.

One WR in the Top Ten.

This isn't an issue with the teams selecting the players, it's the fact that these players graded out higher than other players, regardless of position.
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Geno > Cam
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:02 PM   #126
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The league passed on Brees due to his height and his play in the Spread.

The league passed on Geno Smith because of his lack of leadership skills, lack of charisma and lack of maturity.
Absolutely none of that is relevant. You're getting caught up in minutia. The point is the drop, not why the drop happened. Time proved that the league was wrong to pass on Brees, for whatever reason (and I was wrong personally, about him; I never thought he would thrive in the NFL). And they may have been wrong about Smith as well. Or they may not. There's absolutely no way of knowing either way at this point.

Simply put, if Smith becomes a good player, then the teams that didn't select him before the Jets, whatever their reasoning for it, made a mistake.

Same for us, re: Fisher. If he's a 10 year starter with a couple of pro bowls, and Joeckel is a hall of famer, we ****ed up. If it's the other way around, then we didn't.

In the end, a lot of people have it backwards: a player is not defined by where he's picked. Rather, the pick is defined by how the player performs. As I said before, you can't win anything on draft day.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:05 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Five offensive linemen in the Top Ten.

Three defensive linemen in the Top Ten.

One cornerback in the Top Ten.

One WR in the Top Ten.

This isn't an issue with the teams selecting the players, it's the fact that these players graded out higher than other players, regardless of position.
That WR would be nice to have right now.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:16 PM   #128
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Absolutely none of that is relevant. You're getting caught up in minutia. The point is the drop, not why the drop happened.
At this point in time, it is relevant. It just happened a few months ago. These guys haven't yet played a pre-season game, let alone, a regular season game.

The reason why players were passed over or taken where they were taken will matter until they've actually started and played in the league. Once they've proven they belong, they'll be rewarded. If they don't, they'll be cut.

But as of today, why a guy slipped or didn't slipped is relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Time proved that the league was wrong to pass on Brees, for whatever reason (and I was wrong personally, about him; I never thought he would thrive in the NFL). And they may have been wrong about Smith as well. Or they may not. There's absolutely no way of knowing either way at this point.
The draft is an educated guess. A guess based on research, behavior, performance on the field, work ethic and other intangibles. Given the recent success of other second round QB's (Dalton and Kaepernick), Smith may thrive in the NFL. But for whatever reason, NFL front offices didn't feel he was worthy of a first round pick.

At this point in time, that's all that matters is that Smith wasn't deemed worthy of a first round pick.
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Geno > Cam
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:18 PM   #129
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At this point in time, all that matters to me is that Smith wasn't deemed worthy of a first round pick.
.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:37 PM   #130
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At this point in time, it is relevant. It just happened a few months ago. These guys haven't yet played a pre-season game, let alone, a regular season game.

The reason why players were passed over or taken where they were taken will matter until they've actually started and played in the league. Once they've proven they belong, they'll be rewarded. If they don't, they'll be cut.

But as of today, why a guy slipped or didn't slipped is relevant.
Sorry, but no, it's not relevant in any way, shape or form to the point that I was making.

As you mention yourself in your next paragraph: For whatever reason, NFL front offices didn't feel he was worthy of a first round pick. That's a comment which would be just as valid for Drew Brees as it was for Geno Smith. It doesn't matter 'why' they thought that, only that they did. And later on, he proved them wrong. Which Geno Smith might do, too. Or he might not.

In any case, Smith isn't defined by the 39th pick any more than Brees was defined by the 32nd, or Mark Sanchez was defined by the 5th, or Tim Tebow by the 25th, or Joe Montana by the 82nd. I know you want him to be, because you're tired of hearing his name, but players' values are proven on the field, not on the podium.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:46 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Sorry, but no, it's not relevant in any way, shape or form to the point that I was making.

As you mention yourself in your next paragraph: For whatever reason, NFL front offices didn't feel he was worthy of a first round pick. That's a comment which would be just as valid for Drew Brees as it was for Geno Smith. It doesn't matter 'why' they thought that, only that they did. And later on, he proved them wrong. Which Geno Smith might do, too. Or he might not.

In any case, Smith isn't defined by the 39th pick any more than Brees was defined by the 32nd, or Mark Sanchez was defined by the 5th, or Tim Tebow by the 25th, or Joe Montana by the 82nd. I know you want him to be, because you're tired of hearing his name, but players' values are proven on the field, not on the podium.
I'm sorry, I disagree.

Not only does it matter where guys were chosen because of their contracts, it also matters because of expectations.

Teams expect first round players to perform like first round players. They don't expect sixth round players to perform like first round players.

There are built-in expectations for each and every player drafted. Whether they fail to meet those expectations or exceed them remains to be seen.
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Geno > Cam
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:46 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate View Post
.
You're a ****ing moron.

Why would I care about any player not drafted by the Chiefs?
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Originally Posted by Alex Smith HATER View Post
Geno > Cam
Quote:
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:48 PM   #133
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You're a ****ing moron.

Why would I care about any player not drafted by the Chiefs?
You've jumped the Shark Sandwich.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:54 PM   #134
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You've jumped the Shark Sandwich.
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Originally Posted by Alex Smith HATER View Post
Geno > Cam
Quote:
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:56 PM   #135
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I'm sorry, I disagree.

Not only does it matter where guys were chosen because of their contracts, it also matters because of expectations.

Teams expect first round players to perform like first round players. They don't expect sixth round players to perform like first round players.

There are built-in expectations for each and every player drafted. Whether they fail to meet those expectations or exceed them remains to be seen.
And what I'm saying is that failing to meet those expectations, or exceeding them, is ultimately what defines the value of a draft pick.

It's pretty simple, you're taking the fact that Geno Smith was drafted 39th (a whopping 7 picks later than Drew Brees...) as a justification for writing him off as a player. Which you are clearly doing when you posit he might at best become an "average to above average player". You're defining him by the position in which he was drafted.

Whereas I'm saying there's little to no point in quantifying a player now.

If, in say 5 years, Smith's bagging groceries at Kroger, then I will certainly agree with the "whew we dodged a bullet there!" sentiment. Similarly, if he's one of, say, the top 10 QBs in the league, I'll probably think something along the lines of "man, I wish we had that guy".

In any event, all I can really think right now is "man, I wish we hadn't traded those picks for Alex Smith, because I don't think he's proven himself to be anything more than a complementary player reliant upon those around him, rather than a leader capable of elevating the play of his team mates" on one hand and "I wonder how Tyler Bray will turn out, probably nothing" on the other, with the occasional distant wonder at how Geno Smith is doing with the Jets.

(And I hate the Jets, so I have definite mixed feelings there. Part of me hopes he continues the Sanchez bomb trend so that team can stay in the sewers.)
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