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Old 09-04-2013, 01:04 PM  
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Ariel Castro Failed By System




ORIENT, OH—In yet another glaring indication of the nation’s broken criminal justice system, Ohio correctional officers discovered the body of inmate Ariel Castro, a Cleveland man serving a life sentence on rape and kidnapping charges, hanging from his jail cell Tuesday night, prompting strong calls for action from reformers looking to correct America’s failed correctional policy. “What happened to Ariel Castro is symptomatic of a deeply flawed rehabilitation system that provides neither justice nor security, instead allowing countless men and women each year to fall through the cracks,” prison reform advocate John Wolahan told reporters, noting that Castro, who police say was left unattended for 30 minutes at a time by security personnel, was as much a victim of the prison’s negligence as he was of society as a whole. “In a legal system concerned with harsh sentencing and ultra-punitive approaches to justice, the well-being of people like Ariel Castro—those who have to live in the system we created—is treated as a mere afterthought. And I ask you: How many Ariel Castros have to suffer before we realize the machine is broken? His death is something we all have to live with.” Reformers added that the case was especially tragic because prison employees had reportedly seen warning signs from Castro for weeks and took no action.


http://www.theonion.com/articles/ari...-system,33733/
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
I said "some money". I didn't that that implied a giant cash settlement to most people.
Family members of inmates that commit suicide to get payments sometimes. Not sure why you're acting like this is outlandish.
It's outlandish because of the outrageous nature of Castro's crimes. A life has to be worth something (in the eyes of a jury) in order to find significant damages.

Did Jeffrey Dahmer's parents sue when he was shanked in prison?
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
It's outlandish because of the outrageous nature of Castro's crimes. A life has to be worth something (in the eyes of a jury) in order to find significant damages.

Did Jeffrey Dahmer's parents sue when he was shanked in prison?
The idea that his family could get some money from the prison for this isn't outlandish. They may not be motivated to do anything, but if they feel like it they could drum up some sob story about how he told them he intended to find a purpose in prison or some nonsense.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:12 PM   #18
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There was no fixing this guy.......he fixed himself and saved taxpayers a little money in the process
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:18 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
The idea that his family could get some money from the prison for this isn't outlandish. They may not be motivated to do anything, but if they feel like it they could drum up some sob story about how he told them he intended to find a purpose in prison or some nonsense.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. My position is the meager settlement won't be viewed by the family as worth the public backlash.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:42 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
It's outlandish because of the outrageous nature of Castro's crimes. A life has to be worth something (in the eyes of a jury) in order to find significant damages.

Did Jeffrey Dahmer's parents sue when he was shanked in prison?
He wasn't shanked, he was bludgeoned.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:17 PM   #21
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I just wish several more "Life Sentence" folks would follow suit. Where are all the copy cats?
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:20 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
I just wish several more "Life Sentence" folks would follow suit. Where are all the copy cats?
Because they're pussies and proof the idea living the rest of your life in prison is worse than being executed is a laughable ruse invented by those that are against capital punishment.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:02 PM   #23
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Because they're pussies and proof the idea living the rest of your life in prison is worse than being executed is a laughable ruse invented by those that are against capital punishment.
Personally I think a Life Sentences in Prison should be about 1 year long.

You get 1 appeal and then your fried. Think of all the money that could be saved housing and caring for prisoners.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:32 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
Personally I think a Life Sentences in Prison should be about 1 year long.

You get 1 appeal and then your fried.
That would be a gross miscariage of justice for the innocents who have been wrongfully convicted. Those individuals should be given every oppurtunity to prove their innocence regardless of time and expense. I am sure you would feel the same way if you were convicted of a crime that you were innocent of.

innocenceproject.org/know

-There have been 311 post-conviction DNA exonerations in United States history.

-Eighteen people had been sentenced to death before DNA proved their innocence and led to their release.

-The average sentence served by DNA exonerees has been 13.6 years.

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Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
Think of all the money that could be saved housing and caring for prisoners.
The government can always print more money. The dollar is a fiat currency afterall. They cant, however, bring back an innocent person from the dead that they have killed. There may have been some innocent people wronfully executed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States


The burden of proof in a criminal case is high, "beyond the shadow of doubt"...for the very reason not to wrongfully convict innocent people. Those people should be given every oppurtunity to remove doubts (even post conviction) regarding their guilt or innocence. That would truly be justice.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:29 PM   #25
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That would be a gross miscariage of justice for the innocents who have been wrongfully convicted. Those individuals should be given every oppurtunity to prove their innocence regardless of time and expense. I am sure you would feel the same way if you were convicted of a crime that you were innocent of.

innocenceproject.org/know

-There have been 311 post-conviction DNA exonerations in United States history.

-Eighteen people had been sentenced to death before DNA proved their innocence and led to their release.

-The average sentence served by DNA exonerees has been 13.6 years.



The government can always print more money. The dollar is a fiat currency afterall. They cant, however, bring back an innocent person from the dead that they have killed. There may have been some innocent people wronfully executed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States


The burden of proof in a criminal case is high, "beyond the shadow of doubt"...for the very reason not to wrongfully convict innocent people. Those people should be given every oppurtunity to remove doubts (even post conviction) regarding their guilt or innocence. That would truly be justice.
I find it more of a Gross Miscarriage of Justice to take care of a worthless POS Like Castro or Manson for an extended period of time. Will there be mistakes of course but that is I price I am willing to accept.

You want to ask how I would feel if I were wrongly convicted, well lets put the shoe on the other foot if it were my daughter that Castro abducted I would be miserable with him locked up. I would be hoping like hell that another prisoner would waste his ass in the most brutal fashion.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:33 PM   #26
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This sucks. I was really hoping to see him live through his entire sentence of life plus 100 years.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:39 PM   #27
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
I find it more of a Gross Miscarriage of Justice to take care of a worthless POS Like Castro or Manson for an extended period of time. Will there be mistakes of course but that is I price I am willing to accept.
I get what you're saying, but that is basically the philosophy of history's brutal dictators. The principle of innocent until proven guilty is pretty much the opposite of what you are advocating.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:53 PM   #29
2bikemike 2bikemike is offline
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I get what you're saying, but that is basically the philosophy of history's brutal dictators. The principle of innocent until proven guilty is pretty much the opposite of what you are advocating.
Not really the same as the brutal dictators. If they were tried and convicted in a court of law with the required 6 or 12 jurors. The brutal dictator would have just wasted them without the trial.

Mistakes are going to happen we're all human we're not perfect. There will be people locked up for life that may be wrongly convicted whether you execute them or not. Does that mean we should stop locking people up? Of course not.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:47 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
I find it more of a Gross Miscarriage of Justice to take care of a worthless POS Like Castro or Manson for an extended period of time. Will there be mistakes of course but that is I price I am willing to accept.

You want to ask how I would feel if I were wrongly convicted, well lets put the shoe on the other foot if it were my daughter that Castro abducted I would be miserable with him locked up. I would be hoping like hell that another prisoner would waste his ass in the most brutal fashion.
You're cool with mistakes... even if one of your innocent family members is wrongly killed? Awesome. Why don't we just execute everyone for even the smallest crime? Or how about we start executing people who MIGHT commit a crime in the future?

You gonna use the whole 'gotta break eggs to make omelettes" analogy when that happens?

Or it's only cool so long as the people you don't know are wrongly killed?

Your emotional appeal carries little weight because it can easily be turned around.

I have no sympathy for Castro. The girls were found in his basement. His guilt is not in question. That doesn't change the fact that the position of "I'd rather execute a thousand innocent men than let one walk free" is just about the dumbest thing I've read on the DC forum of Chiefs planet.
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