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Old 09-05-2013, 07:44 AM  
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Obama's Economy Hits His Voters Hardest

This is so damn sweet:



OPINION
September 3, 2013, 6:53 p.m. ET
Stephen Moore: Obama's Economy Hits His Voters Hardest Young people, single women and minorities have fared the worst during the past four years..



For better or worse, a truism of American politics is that voters vote their pocketbooks. Yet according to a new report on median household incomes by Sentier Research, in 2012 millions of American voters apparently cast ballots contrary to their economic self-interest.

Each month the consultants at Sentier analyze the numbers from the Census Bureau's Current Population Survey and estimate the trend in median annual household income adjusted for inflation. On Aug. 21, Sentier released "Household Income on the Fourth Anniversary of the Economic Recovery: June 2009 to June 2013." The finding that grabbed headlines was that real median household income "has fallen by 4.4 percent since the 'economic recovery' began in June 2009." In dollar terms, median household income fell to $52,098 from $54,478, a loss of $2,380.

What was largely overlooked, however, is that those who were most likely to vote for Barack Obama in 2012 were members of demographic groups most likely to have suffered the steepest income declines. Mr. Obama was re-elected with 51% of the vote. Five demographic groups were crucial to his victory: young voters, single women, those with only a high-school diploma or less, blacks and Hispanics. He cleaned up with 60% of the youth vote, 67% of single women, 93% of blacks, 71% of Hispanics, and 64% of those without a high-school diploma, according to exit polls.


According to the Sentier research, households headed by single women, with and without children present, saw their incomes fall by roughly 7%. Those under age 25 experienced an income decline of 9.6%. Black heads of households saw their income tumble by 10.9%, while Hispanic heads-of-households' income fell 4.5%, slightly more than the national average. The incomes of workers with a high-school diploma or less fell by about 8% (-6.9% for those with less than a high-school diploma and -9.3% for those with only a high-school diploma).

To put that into dollar terms, in the four years between the time the Obama recovery began in June 2009 and June of this year, median black household income fell by just over $4,000, Hispanic households lost $2,000 and female-headed households lost $2,300....


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...303535934.html
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:08 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
LoneIquana is a known liar so don't buy his tripe. The data shown is pre-tax income not disposable. It does not include taxes or government transfer payments. When you factor that in (which you must), you'll find the income inequality gains either partly or mostly wash away depending on your source.

Also many of these charts don't factor in benefits. Which have risen significantly over the decades. Many working class Americans are taking more of their income gains in healthcare benefits so it's dampening their "cash only" comp.
So, are you saying that the middle class is not shrinking? Expanding? I guess I'm confused.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:12 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braincase View Post
So, are you saying that the middle class is not shrinking? Expanding? I guess I'm confused.
I shall repeat what I just wrote: you should not be swayed by Lone because he is a liar. You have to look beyond income and get down to take home pay + benefits. Since that's all that matters in the end. Those charts would be the valid ones.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:15 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
I shall repeat what I just wrote: you should not be swayed by Lone because he is a liar. You have to look beyond income and get down to take home pay + benefits. Since that's all that matters in the end. Those charts would be the valid ones.
I look forward to the link you provide from a non-biased source. I do believe however, that real take home pay and, most certainly, benefits, have declined as well. I may be wrong, and am open-minded towards data that refutes or confirms that suspicion.

Regarding your statement about the poster, the source of the image is easily verified. My experience has lead me to believe that everyone frames facts to suit their particular position.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:23 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Braincase View Post
I do believe however, that real take home pay and, most certainly, benefits, have declined as well. I may be wrong, and am open-minded towards data that refutes or confirms that suspicion..
So you're saying you believe something, but you're not sure. At least you're admitting you come into the discussion with a preconceived bias.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:27 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
So you're saying you believe something, but you're not sure. At least you're admitting you come into the discussion with a preconceived bias.


The source isn't Loneiguana, it's the census bureau. You haven't provided anything with regards to sources, so you should apply your advice to yourself as well.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:31 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
So you're saying you believe something, but you're not sure. At least you're admitting you come into the discussion with a preconceived bias.
I also admitted that I am open-minded to change my position. So far, the only data I've seen is that info from the US Census Bureau. I think most people would agree that there as been a decrease in a number of sectors, most notably manufacturing jobs that have gone overseas. Job growth has been experienced in some sectors, but my initial suspicions are that the job market growth has been in sectors that don't pay the wages or provide the type of benefits that would qualify as "middle-class".
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:40 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post


The source isn't Loneiguana, it's the census bureau. You haven't provided anything with regards to sources, so you should apply your advice to yourself as well.
http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/f...ingPaper-9.pdf


Takes the same census data, then factors taxes (which hit the rich) and adds back government payments (which help the poor) and benefits (poor & middle class).
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:46 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braincase View Post
I also admitted that I am open-minded to change my position. So far, the only data I've seen is that info from the US Census Bureau. I think most people would agree that there as been a decrease in a number of sectors, most notably manufacturing jobs that have gone overseas. Job growth has been experienced in some sectors, but my initial suspicions are that the job market growth has been in sectors that don't pay the wages or provide the type of benefits that would qualify as "middle-class".
You haven't mentioned benefits yet. Also, the article I posted at the beginning of the thread (which I'll assume you didn't read) mentions that incomes are down for everybody in the recession. There was also this nugget about the growing "inequality" before Obama:


Census data reveal that from 1981-2008 the biggest income gains were for black women, 81%; followed by white women, 67%; followed by black men, 31%; and white males at 8%
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:52 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/f...ingPaper-9.pdf


Takes the same census data, then factors taxes (which hit the rich) and adds back government payments (which help the poor) and benefits (poor & middle class).
I found this. Thought it was pertinent.

Although it is a Wikipedia compilation, the links at the bottom may be relevant to the conversation.

Link - Tax Policy and Economic Inequality in the United States
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:13 AM   #70
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Which would suggest we should expand legal immigration of talented workers to shore up Social Security and promote economic growth.
You're proposing a solution to a labor shortage problem. Did I miss some major economic news?
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:16 AM   #71
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Your link says that the top marginal rate was 91% in 1964. The "Bush tax cuts" had it down to 35% in 2007. Yet this chart shows the richest 1% had about the same share of wealth in either situation:


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Old 09-06-2013, 11:26 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Your link says that the top marginal rate was 91% in 1964. The "Bush tax cuts" had it down to 35% in 2007. Yet this chart shows the richest 1% had about the same share of wealth in either situation:


Yes. However, the chart fails to demonstrate changes in the Top 5%/95%, or Top 10%/90%. I should look for that info. Still kind of wild to think that 33% of this countries wealth is controlled by the top 1%. I wonder how much influence that 1% has on selection of candidates that appear on the ballots during any given election cycle.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:45 AM   #73
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We were stupid enough to elect this moron twice. We deserve whatever we get.

Sometimes people have to learn their lessons the hard way, we apparently needed a hard lesson at the ballot box again.
We? I didn't vote for that black Tom Sawyer.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:37 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braincase View Post
Yes. However, the chart fails to demonstrate changes in the Top 5%/95%, or Top 10%/90%. I should look for that info. Still kind of wild to think that 33% of this countries wealth is controlled by the top 1%. I wonder how much influence that 1% has on selection of candidates that appear on the ballots during any given election cycle.
This issue is global so it's happening even in socialist countries. Too much wage pressure from low-income competitors worldwide, and too rapidly rising costs for benefits particularly health.
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Old 09-06-2013, 01:20 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
LoneIquana is a known liar so don't buy his tripe. The data shown is pre-tax income not disposable. It does not include taxes or government transfer payments. When you factor that in (which you must), you'll find the income inequality gains either partly or mostly wash away depending on your source.

Also many of these charts don't factor in benefits. Which have risen significantly over the decades. Many working class Americans are taking more of their income gains in healthcare benefits so it's dampening their "cash only" comp.
Know liar? Prove it with your own source. Oh wait, you didn't provide any sources.
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