Why people laugh at Creationists

[Dave Lane]

Taking a lead from Killer Clown I thought I'd create a alternative thread to post some videos I like...

[EDIT New video here]

So on with the show:

Here's the Kent Hovind Theory:



"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

Oops.

According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the countries giving the highest amounts of money (in absolute terms) are as follows:[1]

1. United States – $30.46 billion
2. United Kingdom – $13.66 billion
3. Germany – $13.11 billion
4. France – $12.00 billion
5. Japan – $10.49 billion
6. Canada – $5.68 billion
7. Netherlands – $5.52 billion
8. Australia – $5.44 billion
9. Sweden – $5.24 billion
10. Norway – $4.75 billion
11. Switzerland – $3.02 billion
12. Denmark – $2.72 billion

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Oops.

According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the countries giving the highest amounts of money (in absolute terms) are as follows:[1]

1. United States – $30.46 billion
2. United Kingdom – $13.66 billion
3. Germany – $13.11 billion
4. France – $12.00 billion
5. Japan – $10.49 billion
6. Canada – $5.68 billion
7. Netherlands – $5.52 billion
8. Australia – $5.44 billion
9. Sweden – $5.24 billion
10. Norway – $4.75 billion
11. Switzerland – $3.02 billion
12. Denmark – $2.72 billion

America's laws, not behavior. Your info actually strengthens the point of the picture.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by listopencil

America's laws, not behavior. Your info actually strengthens the point of the picture.

More so policies than laws/behavior I guess.

However it's still pretty stupid being that the Catholic Church is one of the world's largest charities. I think most are also for the forgiveness stuff and don't want to see non violent offenders put in jail. However, I'm still not selling all my shit

[tiptap]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I'm not a fan something founded of faith being debated either and I'm a believer. I like how Pascal put it "The heart has reasons for which reason knows nothing". The bible isn't a science book it's a book of faith, a story of man if you will, and I don't recall Jesus talking about the science behind things in the NT either.

The heart does react to hormones and without a vagus nerve input, will beat much faster than we normally think of the heart beating for an adult. This is because in order for a species to have organs you have to embryonically have three layers of differentiating cell. And the middle layer than has to have oxygen pumped there. The heart then develops to meet the embryonic necessity and beats much faster on its own and only later is tied in to the nervous system. It is a very self contained organ as a result.

But nowhere do we see any brain like cells collecting in the cardiac muscles. There is no reasoning taking place in the heart. There is physiological response that is seen. But there is no higher level reasoning taking place. Pascal and others use the physiological response and this early isolation necessitated by embryonic need, as a stand in for something outside themselves. I am sure every time Pascal thought about the absoluteness of death his heart raced and governed his mindset to "run" from that idea that he was ultimately mortal. It is a strong emotional response.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

More so policies than laws/behavior I guess.

However it's still pretty stupid being that the Catholic Church is one of the world's largest charities. I think most are also for the forgiveness stuff and don't want to see non violent offenders put in jail. However, I'm still not selling all my shit

Well, sure, that's more to the point. I've seen that pic or variations of it for quite a while. I take it as referring to individual Christian American citizens. The ones who have no problem basing American law on Christian/Biblical concepts that they agree with but wouldn't live as Jesus did, wouldn't accept the sacrifices of a Biblical life, and argue against modern implementation of a Christian legal system.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by tiptap

There is no reasoning taking place in the heart.

I think that is his point.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Oops.

According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the countries giving the highest amounts of money (in absolute terms) are as follows:[1]

1. United States – $30.46 billion
2. United Kingdom – $13.66 billion
3. Germany – $13.11 billion
4. France – $12.00 billion
5. Japan – $10.49 billion
6. Canada – $5.68 billion
7. Netherlands – $5.52 billion
8. Australia – $5.44 billion
9. Sweden – $5.24 billion
10. Norway – $4.75 billion
11. Switzerland – $3.02 billion
12. Denmark – $2.72 billion

1. United States – $30.46 billion 3rd, $96
2. United Kingdom – $13.66 billion 22nd, $214
3. Germany – $13.11 billion 16th, $162
4. France – $12.00 billion 21st, $182
5. Japan – $10.49 billion 10th, $82
6. Canada – $5.68 billion 37th, $161
7. Netherlands – $5.52 billion 63rd, $328
8. Australia – $5.44 billion 53rd, $234
9. Sweden – $5.24 billion 89th, $545
10. Norway – $4.75 billion 118th, $935
11. Switzerland – $3.02 billion 97th, $374
12. Denmark – $2.72 billion 112th, $484


Oops.

We need to adjust for population. The first number is the population rank among countries. The second number is the dollar amount given per person. I had no idea where this would go but it is interesting.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

1. United States – $30.46 billion 3rd, $96
2. United Kingdom – $13.66 billion 22nd, $214
3. Germany – $13.11 billion 16th, $162
4. France – $12.00 billion 21st, $182
5. Japan – $10.49 billion 10th, $82
6. Canada – $5.68 billion 37th, $161
7. Netherlands – $5.52 billion 63rd, $328
8. Australia – $5.44 billion 53rd, $234
9. Sweden – $5.24 billion 89th, $545
10. Norway – $4.75 billion 118th, $935
11. Switzerland – $3.02 billion 97th, $374
12. Denmark – $2.72 billion 112th, $484


Oops.

We need to adjust for population. The first number is the population rank among countries. The second number is the dollar amount given per person. I had no idea where this would go but it is interesting.

To provide an alternative perspective, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development also lists countries by the amount of money they give as a percentage of their gross national income. The list includes international giving through official channels that qualify as Official Development Assistance, and national charitable giving. This list is as follows:

1. Luxembourg – 1.00%
2. Sweden – 0.99%
3. Norway – 0.93%
4. Denmark – 0.84%
5. Netherlands – 0.71%
6. United Kingdom – 0.56%
7. Finland – 0.53%
8. Ireland – 0.48%
9. Belgium – 0.47%
10. France- 0.45%
11. Switzerland – 0.45%
12. Germany – 0.38%
13. Australia – 0.36%
14. Canada – 0.32%
15. Austria – 0.28%
16. New Zealand – 0.28%
17. Portugal – 0.27%
18. Iceland – 0.22%
19. United States – 0.19%
20. Japan – 0.17%

[tiptap]

Originally Posted by listopencil

I think that is his point.

And my statement is that Pascal was saying reasoning could not know of the heart. And yet we do have a strong reasoning understanding of the physiological heart. And there is absolutely no higher understanding taking place there. It is a primitive association with the wish to live that exists in every animal. Self preservation is not the same as understanding. Reasoning, not physiological "tea readings" gives a more robust statement about reality.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by tiptap

And my statement is that Pascal was saying reasoning could not know of the heart. And yet we do have a strong reasoning understanding of the physiological heart. And there is absolutely no higher understanding taking place there. It is a primitive association with the wish to live that exists in every animal. Self preservation is not the same as understanding. Reasoning, not physiological "tea readings" gives a more robust statement about reality.

Our physiological understanding of the heart is irrelevant in this particular point of the discussion. It is metaphorical and allegorical in nature.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by tiptap

The heart does react to hormones and without a vagus nerve input, will beat much faster than we normally think of the heart beating for an adult. This is because in order for a species to have organs you have to embryonically have three layers of differentiating cell. And the middle layer than has to have oxygen pumped there. The heart then develops to meet the embryonic necessity and beats much faster on its own and only later is tied in to the nervous system. It is a very self contained organ as a result.

But nowhere do we see any brain like cells collecting in the cardiac muscles. There is no reasoning taking place in the heart. There is physiological response that is seen. But there is no higher level reasoning taking place. Pascal and others use the physiological response and this early isolation necessitated by embryonic need, as a stand in for something outside themselves. I am sure every time Pascal thought about the absoluteness of death his heart raced and governed his mindset to "run" from that idea that he was ultimately mortal. It is a strong emotional response.

My God man. I'm sure you could crap on a chance at an orgy with the playboy bunnies. Ligthen up.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by listopencil

Our physiological understanding of the heart is irrelevant in this particular point of the discussion. It is metaphorical and allegorical in nature.

I can't be believe he took that literally. Some guys are just too smart.

[tiptap]

Pascal has strong arguments that empiricism and rationalism are insufficient to truths. Usually by ridicule and sarcasm. And yet when he is writing in his religious moments, his authority lies with his "inspiration." This quote is in that vein. And is the essential mode of dismissal of science as being able to provide a better understanding to anything beyond physical process. Pascal resorted to metaphor because he thought there was inherent, even divine, understanding in natural language. An attempt to brush by the same arguments of axiomatic inadequacy to obtain truth from applying to those authorities (Bible and word) that he claimed, that he leveled at those who looked to science as understood by rationalists and empiricists.
So it is important to place the parts of the metaphor in concrete terms and ask the metaphysics to demonstrate apart on on their own. Otherwise you are left with no analytic of what is actually being talked about.

[RNR]

Originally Posted by tiptap

Pascal has strong arguments that empiricism and rationalism are insufficient to truths. Usually by ridicule and sarcasm. And yet when he is writing in his religious moments, his authority lies with his "inspiration." This quote is in that vein. And is the essential mode of dismissal of science as being able to provide a better understanding to anything beyond physical process. Pascal resorted to metaphor because he thought there was inherent, even divine, understanding in natural language. An attempt to brush by the same arguments of axiomatic inadequacy to obtain truth from applying to those authorities (Bible and word) that he claimed, that he leveled at those who looked to science as understood by rationalists and empiricists.
So it is important to place the parts of the metaphor in concrete terms and ask the metaphysics to demonstrate apart on on their own. Otherwise you are left with no analytic of what is actually being talked about.

What is your stance on his wager?

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by RNR

What is your stance on his wager?

I can't answer for tiptap, but I find it to be a rather horrific and unreasonable justification for mind control.