Cardinals The "Official" Cardinals Discussion Thread. - Page 10

**BigRedChief** · 07-07-2008, 07:05 AM

Figured that if we had one thread to discuss Cardinals "stuff" it would be easier to find. What do you think? Good idea?

StcChief · 07-10-2008, 01:31 PM

The Cardinal spin on Mulder/Garcia

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/new...=.jsp&c_id=stl

PHILADELPHIA -- Mark Mulder's latest injury came as a huge disappointment to player and team, but it also opened a door for yet another young Cardinal. Left-hander Jaime Garcia was recalled from Triple-A Memphis on Thursday to take the spot of Mulder, who was placed on the 15-day disabled list with a left shoulder injury. Garcia is regarded as perhaps the organization's top pitching prospect, and his future looks bright. However, his recall on Thursday is more a matter of need than perfect timing, since he has struggled at times at Memphis.

Garcia has also enjoyed some brilliant outings, but in general, he's been inconsistent since his promotion from Double-A Springfield.
"He's had some good periods and he's made progress," manager Tony La Russa said Thursday morning. "I think he can be used in a Brad Thompson-like way, versatile. He can give us innings, because he's used to it. And we have a left-handed relief need. Like today, if he's available to pitch, I'd bring him in there against [Ryan] Howard and find out."

One complication: Garcia has a significant reverse platoon split. He's been
much more effective against right-handed hitters than against lefties.
Still, it's an exciting moment for Garcia and for the organization. When Garcia pitches, he will become the 10th Cardinal to make his Major League debut this season -- an impressive number for any organization, but especially for a team very much in playoff contention.

One downside for Garcia: he will not pitch in the XM All-Star Futures Game on Sunday in New York. He had been selected to pitch for the World team in the annual prospect showcase.

**BigRedChief** · 07-10-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It goes both ways. If you go out and make a desperation move not only do you hurt yourself long term but it also sends the message that they aren't good enough to compete now. If he quits, he quits. He's a great manager, but I'd much rather have a good manager with a team that has Pujols, Rasmus, Brett Wallace, Garcia, Perez, and Todd, than I would have a great manager with a team filled with reclamation projects.

I hear ya and agree. Tony can be very irritating but you can't argue with the results. 2006 and this years success can defintely be traced to Tony despite the micro managing etc.

I hope Dave Duncan doesn't retire if Tony does. The guy has a talent like no other.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-10-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StcChief

The Cardinal spin on Mulder/Garcia

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/new...=.jsp&c_id=stl

PHILADELPHIA -- Mark Mulder's latest injury came as a huge disappointment to player and team, but it also opened a door for yet another young Cardinal. Left-hander Jaime Garcia was recalled from Triple-A Memphis on Thursday to take the spot of Mulder, who was placed on the 15-day disabled list with a left shoulder injury. Garcia is regarded as perhaps the organization's top pitching prospect, and his future looks bright. However, his recall on Thursday is more a matter of need than perfect timing, since he has struggled at times at Memphis.

Garcia has also enjoyed some brilliant outings, but in general, he's been inconsistent since his promotion from Double-A Springfield.
"He's had some good periods and he's made progress," manager Tony La Russa said Thursday morning. "I think he can be used in a Brad Thompson-like way, versatile. He can give us innings, because he's used to it. And we have a left-handed relief need. Like today, if he's available to pitch, I'd bring him in there against [Ryan] Howard and find out."

One complication: Garcia has a significant reverse platoon split. He's been
much more effective against right-handed hitters than against lefties.
Still, it's an exciting moment for Garcia and for the organization. When Garcia pitches, he will become the 10th Cardinal to make his Major League debut this season -- an impressive number for any organization, but especially for a team very much in playoff contention.

One downside for Garcia: he will not pitch in the XM All-Star Futures Game on Sunday in New York. He had been selected to pitch for the World team in the annual prospect showcase.

Well, the team doesn't need a fifth starter until after the break b/c of how the schedule falls. To be honest, I'd like to see them plug him in there, and then use him as a swing/ 6th starter rather than a lefty reliever. He's too valuable to be a LOOGY.

One guy that I really miss that I haven't heard a lot from lately (in regards to his rehab) is Josh Kinney. He's supposed to begin a rehab assignment on August 1. If you get him in mid August, he could be a valuable cog. Even though he's a righty, his slider is absolute death against lefties.

Flores can die in a fire.

Honestly, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop on Wellemeyer. It seems to me like his elbow is hanging on by a thread. Even though Barton's wrist injury is minor, I wouldn't mind us Belichicking his ass and fudging the injury report so we don't have to send him back to Cleveland, thus enabling us to bring up Rasmus.

Jewish Rabbi · 07-10-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I hope Dave Duncan doesn't retire if Tony does. The guy has a talent like no other.

I'd imagine that it's a package deal, sadly enough.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-10-2008, 02:00 PM

God, Ryan is beyond worthless.

smittysbar · 07-10-2008, 02:00 PM

Philly took 2 of 3

StcChief · 07-10-2008, 02:11 PM

Losing last nite with Mulder debacle .....not even 3-4 innings. In a screwy game....

we got some work for Thompson who did fine IMO.

**BigRedChief** · 07-10-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

I'd imagine that it's a package deal, sadly enough.

Yep.

Frazod · 07-10-2008, 03:22 PM

Lost again. Scored one goddamn run.

At least the Cubs are losing as well, down by 5 in the 9th. But the Brewers won, so we just got dumped into third.

Demonpenz · 07-10-2008, 03:40 PM

Mulder maybe done for good

StcChief · 07-10-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonpenz

Mulder maybe done for good

he was basically done before wear Cardinal uni....considering what they paid him.

now if Doctors say he's perm done, insurance money kicks in.....

Pasta Little Brioni · 07-10-2008, 08:09 PM

Need....to....score....some.....runs!!!

**BigRedChief** · 07-11-2008, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

This team needs to start scoring some fucking runs. Everybody's bitching about pitching, but we've only scored 12 runs in the past week. Can't blame Mulder for that.

True dat. Yeah, yeah, yeah our pitching is the walking wounded or reclaims off the MLB scrap heap but our offense is begining to look really lame. I think part of the issue is nobody in the lineup to protect Albert and Ludwick, Kennedy, Miles, Ainkel and Shumaker need to be more consistent.

**BigRedChief** · 07-11-2008, 06:42 AM

From the St. Louis paper
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the youngsters the Cards should not move, under any circumstances:

Kyle McClellan, RP: He is one of the stalwarts of the current Cards bullpen, due to his ability to work multiple innings and retire left-handed hitters. Pitching coach Dave Duncan sees him moving to the starting rotation in ’09. That change could occur sooner if the franchise can’t shore up the rotation through other means. We assume McClellan would be the first pitcher other teams ask for.

Chris Perez, RP: As Mozeliak likes to say, Perez is “pre-engineered to pitch late innings.” He arrived ahead of schedule to give the bullpen another power arm. He needs to gain better command of his stuff, since big league hitters have made him pay for bad pitch location. Like McClellan, he has a big role now and will have a bigger role going forward.

Colby Rasmus, OF: In June he batted .333 with eight doubles, four homers and 15 RBI. By turning the corner at the Class AAA level, he got back on schedule to start the ’09 season in St. Louis. How about an outfield of Ryan Ludwick, Rasmus and Rick Ankiel, with Skip Schumaker mixing in? That would be a productive offensive group and an excellent defensive unit.

Jaime Garcia, SP: It’s a little early to test him at the big league level, but Mulder’s demise forces management’s hand. He is a lefty, which the Cards desperately need, and he works the lower half of the strike zone with his power arm. He developed a sore elbow last season, so the Cards must keep a close watch on his physical condition.

Clayton Mortensen, SP: As a Memphis Redbird, he just got rocked in New Orleans -- but that’s going to happen trying to jump from college baseball (Gonzaga) to the Class AAA level in one year. The Cards liked him in spring training and management loves him now.

David Freese, 3B: He bypassed Class AA ball altogether, which is no easy feat. He is batting .274 with 14 homers at Memphis. He isn’t a mortal lock to reach the majors, but his offensive and defensive progress is encouraging. He could become a long-term option to replace Troy Glaus, should the Cards opt not to extend the big fella past 2009.

Jess Todd, SP: Like Mortsensen, he is making a quick adjustment from the college game. He has big league stuff and an excellent feel for pitching. He has been overpowering at the Class AA level. He may be the most exciting pitching prospect in the whole organization.

And here are some players who could become more expendable:

Mitchell Boggs, SP: At Memphis, he is 6-1 with a 3.14 ERA. He won three games as a Cards fill-in. (And you could argue that he should still be here.) He would have to be attractive to other teams, right? And with several young hurlers maturing at once, he could be a nice chip to spend now.

Mike Parisi, SP: He is 6-1 with a 3.38 ERA at Memphis. He had a couple of good relief outings as a Cards fill-in, but he also got rocked. Right now he looks like a depth guy for this organization.

Joe Mather, OF: He is a handy player, given his ability to play all three outfield spots and the corner infield slots. It would be nice to see him stick in ’09 as a power-hitting utility player. But with the Cards strong in the outfield and on the infield corners – especially with top ’08 pick Brett Wallace on a fast track – Mather could move into play.

Brian Barton, OF: The Cards love his speed and his potential as a contact hitter. But, again, there are so many other guys.

Bryan Anderson, C: Good-hitting young catchers are scarce. And Anderson has come a long way defensively. He is one of the organization’s best assets. But with Yadier Molina entrenched here, other teams will target him in trade talks.

Nick Stavinoha, OF: He continues to kill Class AAA pitching, but he has nowhere to go in this organization. The Cards have better prospects. He isn’t a great defensive player and he doesn’t have tremendous power. He can hit, though, and that has to have some value to other organizations.

Jarrett Hoffpauir, 2B: He is batting .301 at Memphis, but the Cards have a big surplus of middle infielders. This kid doesn’t offer speed or power, so it’s tough to project him as a major league starter. He is behind Brendan Ryan, who can run and play multiple positions.

John Jay, OF: Like Stavinoha, he is busting out at the plate. He has earned some comparisons to Coco Crisp, but that may be optimistic. Given the Cards’ long-term depth at this position, he would have to be another trade candidate.

Jason Motte, RP: He is strictly a power pitcher. He has struck out 64 batters for Memphis in 41 1/3 innings. He isn’t polished enough now to help the Cards, though, so he could move into play.

Adam Ottavino: He still offers considerable potential, but his up-and-down season at Springfield allowed other prospects to move past him. Last year he was 12-8 at Class A Palm Beach, with a 3.08 ERA. Holding onto him would make sense – to allow his value to grow – but if another team was interested . . .

The bottom line:
The Cards could offer some pretty good long-term assets without spending those prospects most likely to help in ‘09. Mozeliak could get La Russa some much-sought help without compromising the overall retooling process.

**BigRedChief** · 07-11-2008, 06:45 AM

Tidbit I picked up while I was in St. Louis.........

Kyle McClellan's is from St. Louis. His Dad is a long time(20+ years) season ticket holder. Kyle used to go to 50+ Cardinal games every year growing up.

Man how cool would that be to have a local kid who use to watch from the stands be a productive member of the team?

07-07-2008, 07:05 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-661038 VARSITY	The "Official" Cardinals Discussion Thread. Figured that if we had one thread to discuss Cardinals "stuff" it would be easier to find. What do you think? Good idea?
Posts: 81,288

07-10-2008, 01:31 PM	#136
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	The Cardinal spin on Mulder/Garcia http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/new...=.jsp&c_id=stl PHILADELPHIA -- Mark Mulder's latest injury came as a huge disappointment to player and team, but it also opened a door for yet another young Cardinal. Left-hander Jaime Garcia was recalled from Triple-A Memphis on Thursday to take the spot of Mulder, who was placed on the 15-day disabled list with a left shoulder injury. Garcia is regarded as perhaps the organization's top pitching prospect, and his future looks bright. However, his recall on Thursday is more a matter of need than perfect timing, since he has struggled at times at Memphis. Garcia has also enjoyed some brilliant outings, but in general, he's been inconsistent since his promotion from Double-A Springfield. "He's had some good periods and he's made progress," manager Tony La Russa said Thursday morning. "I think he can be used in a Brad Thompson-like way, versatile. He can give us innings, because he's used to it. And we have a left-handed relief need. Like today, if he's available to pitch, I'd bring him in there against [Ryan] Howard and find out." One complication: Garcia has a significant reverse platoon split. He's been much more effective against right-handed hitters than against lefties. Still, it's an exciting moment for Garcia and for the organization. When Garcia pitches, he will become the 10th Cardinal to make his Major League debut this season -- an impressive number for any organization, but especially for a team very much in playoff contention. One downside for Garcia: he will not pitch in the XM All-Star Futures Game on Sunday in New York. He had been selected to pitch for the World team in the annual prospect showcase. __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
Posts: 25,901

07-10-2008, 02:00 PM	#140
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7219572	God, Ryan is beyond worthless. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,078

07-10-2008, 02:00 PM	#141
smittysbar Right in the Lumberyard Danny Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: LaPlata, MO Casino cash: $10004942	Philly took 2 of 3 __________________
Posts: 6,646

07-10-2008, 02:11 PM	#142
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	Losing last nite with Mulder debacle .....not even 3-4 innings. In a screwy game.... we got some work for Thompson who did fine IMO. __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
Posts: 25,901

07-10-2008, 03:22 PM	#144
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-656615	Lost again. Scored one goddamn run. At least the Cubs are losing as well, down by 5 in the 9th. But the Brewers won, so we just got dumped into third.
Posts: 121,727

07-10-2008, 03:40 PM	#145
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $-293864	Mulder maybe done for good __________________
Posts: 54,947

07-10-2008, 08:09 PM	#147
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $298880	Need....to....score....some.....runs!!!
Posts: 72,949

07-11-2008, 06:42 AM	#149
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-661038 VARSITY	From the St. Louis paper --------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are the youngsters the Cards should not move, under any circumstances: Kyle McClellan, RP: He is one of the stalwarts of the current Cards bullpen, due to his ability to work multiple innings and retire left-handed hitters. Pitching coach Dave Duncan sees him moving to the starting rotation in ’09. That change could occur sooner if the franchise can’t shore up the rotation through other means. We assume McClellan would be the first pitcher other teams ask for. Chris Perez, RP: As Mozeliak likes to say, Perez is “pre-engineered to pitch late innings.” He arrived ahead of schedule to give the bullpen another power arm. He needs to gain better command of his stuff, since big league hitters have made him pay for bad pitch location. Like McClellan, he has a big role now and will have a bigger role going forward. Colby Rasmus, OF: In June he batted .333 with eight doubles, four homers and 15 RBI. By turning the corner at the Class AAA level, he got back on schedule to start the ’09 season in St. Louis. How about an outfield of Ryan Ludwick, Rasmus and Rick Ankiel, with Skip Schumaker mixing in? That would be a productive offensive group and an excellent defensive unit. Jaime Garcia, SP: It’s a little early to test him at the big league level, but Mulder’s demise forces management’s hand. He is a lefty, which the Cards desperately need, and he works the lower half of the strike zone with his power arm. He developed a sore elbow last season, so the Cards must keep a close watch on his physical condition. Clayton Mortensen, SP: As a Memphis Redbird, he just got rocked in New Orleans -- but that’s going to happen trying to jump from college baseball (Gonzaga) to the Class AAA level in one year. The Cards liked him in spring training and management loves him now. David Freese, 3B: He bypassed Class AA ball altogether, which is no easy feat. He is batting .274 with 14 homers at Memphis. He isn’t a mortal lock to reach the majors, but his offensive and defensive progress is encouraging. He could become a long-term option to replace Troy Glaus, should the Cards opt not to extend the big fella past 2009. Jess Todd, SP: Like Mortsensen, he is making a quick adjustment from the college game. He has big league stuff and an excellent feel for pitching. He has been overpowering at the Class AA level. He may be the most exciting pitching prospect in the whole organization. And here are some players who could become more expendable: Mitchell Boggs, SP: At Memphis, he is 6-1 with a 3.14 ERA. He won three games as a Cards fill-in. (And you could argue that he should still be here.) He would have to be attractive to other teams, right? And with several young hurlers maturing at once, he could be a nice chip to spend now. Mike Parisi, SP: He is 6-1 with a 3.38 ERA at Memphis. He had a couple of good relief outings as a Cards fill-in, but he also got rocked. Right now he looks like a depth guy for this organization. Joe Mather, OF: He is a handy player, given his ability to play all three outfield spots and the corner infield slots. It would be nice to see him stick in ’09 as a power-hitting utility player. But with the Cards strong in the outfield and on the infield corners – especially with top ’08 pick Brett Wallace on a fast track – Mather could move into play. Brian Barton, OF: The Cards love his speed and his potential as a contact hitter. But, again, there are so many other guys. Bryan Anderson, C: Good-hitting young catchers are scarce. And Anderson has come a long way defensively. He is one of the organization’s best assets. But with Yadier Molina entrenched here, other teams will target him in trade talks. Nick Stavinoha, OF: He continues to kill Class AAA pitching, but he has nowhere to go in this organization. The Cards have better prospects. He isn’t a great defensive player and he doesn’t have tremendous power. He can hit, though, and that has to have some value to other organizations. Jarrett Hoffpauir, 2B: He is batting .301 at Memphis, but the Cards have a big surplus of middle infielders. This kid doesn’t offer speed or power, so it’s tough to project him as a major league starter. He is behind Brendan Ryan, who can run and play multiple positions. John Jay, OF: Like Stavinoha, he is busting out at the plate. He has earned some comparisons to Coco Crisp, but that may be optimistic. Given the Cards’ long-term depth at this position, he would have to be another trade candidate. Jason Motte, RP: He is strictly a power pitcher. He has struck out 64 batters for Memphis in 41 1/3 innings. He isn’t polished enough now to help the Cards, though, so he could move into play. Adam Ottavino: He still offers considerable potential, but his up-and-down season at Springfield allowed other prospects to move past him. Last year he was 12-8 at Class A Palm Beach, with a 3.08 ERA. Holding onto him would make sense – to allow his value to grow – but if another team was interested . . . The bottom line: The Cards could offer some pretty good long-term assets without spending those prospects most likely to help in ‘09. Mozeliak could get La Russa some much-sought help without compromising the overall retooling process. __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,288

07-11-2008, 06:45 AM	#150
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-661038 VARSITY	Tidbit I picked up while I was in St. Louis......... Kyle McClellan's is from St. Louis. His Dad is a long time(20+ years) season ticket holder. Kyle used to go to 50+ Cardinal games every year growing up. Man how cool would that be to have a local kid who use to watch from the stands be a productive member of the team? __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,288