Rumor: Albert to the Dolphins

[Titty Meat]

*Albert

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-the-dolphins/

So that great 08' draft class won 0 playoff games and 3 of the better players from that draft are no longer on the team. Thanks Pioli.

[Mugsy]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

... And how successful have those teams been when it counted?

Off the top of my head didn't we make the playoffs like 8 years in a row? isn't that still a record? I like to win. Winning the Superbowl is tough. If we win one in my lifetime I'll be happy. Winning is a lot more fun than losing. that's all I know.

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

... And how successful have those teams been when it counted?

Who have been the most successful teams in recent history? Look at their play in the post-season.

The teams that end up winning are the teams that can protect, and the teams that can disrupt. In other words, championships really are won in the trenches.

Why did we lose to the Colts? We couldn't get to Andrew Luck.

Why did Broncos easily beat everyone except for the Seahawks in the playoffs? Their protection was good up until they had to face the Seahawks.

Why did the Seahawks win the SB in such dominant fashion? They were disruptive everywhere along their DL which helped their secondary tremendously.

Ravens and 49ers - both great fronts, defensively and offensively

Giants? Absolutely dominant up front on defense and their OL was also solid. They destroyed Brady's pockets all day long in route to a SB win.

Etc etc etc.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Mugsy

Again, it's about expectations. Jackson turned out to be solid and Poe is really good. You aren't going to hit on every pick. It's like Dorsey recently said about Ted Thompson. The goal is to bat .500. If you can do that in the draft, you are doing a really good job.

Also, defensive linemen are notoriously slow to develop.

Do you wish we hadn't taken Poe after taking Dorsey and Jackson? I'm not sure I get your point.

What if it wasn't linemen? Would you be fine taking QB after QB in the first hoping to hit on one? Or, WR after WR like Detroit did? That sort of thing can sink a franchise. You gotta have the horses up front. It sounds to me like some just don't like drafting linemen early. I get how it's easy to like the flashy skill position players but I am a build through the lines kind of guy.

T.J. was anything but "solid" for most of his career. Two decent seasons does not mean it was a good pick. You need to get more than a 2 down player who turned out to be OK from a top 5 pick. It was a reach. He never really improved his skill set so he could be used in all situations. All he did is get better at what he does so in the end, you had a guy who was decent 2 down player.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Mugsy

Again, it's about expectations. Jackson turned out to be solid and Poe is really good. You aren't going to hit on every pick. It's like Dorsey recently said about Ted Thompson. The goal is to bat .500. If you can do that in the draft, you are doing a really good job.

Also, defensive linemen are notoriously slow to develop.

Do you wish we hadn't taken Poe after taking Dorsey and Jackson? I'm not sure I get your point.

What if it wasn't linemen? Would you be fine taking QB after QB in the first hoping to hit on one? Or, WR after WR like Detroit did? That sort of thing can sink a franchise. You gotta have the horses up front. It sounds to me like some just don't like drafting linemen early. I get how it's easy to like the flashy skill position players but I am a build through the lines kind of guy.

Some people are always going to go ballistic when their team doesn't take who they want. Nobody wanted Poe and everyone loves him now. it's about the big picture.

Are you that ****ing stupid?

2001- Eric Downing (3rd)
2002- Ryan Sims (1st), Eddie Freeman (2nd)
2004- Junior Siavii (2nd)
2006- Tamba Hali (1st)
2007- Turk McBride (2nd), Tank Tyler (3rd)
2008- Glenn Dorsey (1st)

8 drafts and 8 defensive linemen drafted with the Chiefs top 3 picks. Only one of them wasn't a huge flaming piece of shit (Hali).

So when we get to 2009 and we draft Tyson Jackson at #3 overall, are you still curious why people were furious as **** that we drafted him?

Hell, let's go ahead and extend this to Dontari Poe. ****ing great. Now we have 11 defensive linemen drafted with the Chiefs top 3 picks in 12 seasons, and only TWO of them have worked out. And one of them doesn't even play on the defensive line anymore.

"But it was a bad draft year to have a top pick!"

SO PICK SOMETHING ELSE, DIPSHIT

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Mugsy

Off the top of my head didn't we make the playoffs like 8 years in a row? isn't that still a record? I like to win. Winning the Superbowl is tough. If we win one in my lifetime I'll be happy. Winning is a lot more fun than losing. that's all I know.

We didn't make the playoffs 8 years in a row.

Also, the 90s were filled with some terrible ****ing drafts. That doesn't mean terrible drafts are the key to winning games.

Finally, those teams drafted offensive linemen when they needed them and they sat the **** down. And they didn't misfire on OL picks when they had them. They also found guys like Dave Szott in the 7th round. Not all of their picks were 1st round dudes.

**** OL and **** you.

[Eleazar]

I liked the Poe pick because it was an upside pick, a high risk/high reward play. They drafted him based on his ceiling, not where he was on draft day. Fisher is the same thing.

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by TEX

T.J. was anything but "solid" for most of his career. Two decent seasons does not mean it was a good pick. You need to get more than a 2 down player who turned out to be OK from a top 5 pick. It was a reach. He never really improved his skill set so he could be used in all situations. All he did is get better at what he does so in the end, you had a guy who was decent 2 down player.

TJ was a case of reaching to fill a need. No one in that draft class has panned out to be a dominant 5-tech.

Looking at that top 20, hell the top 10, makes me cringe. There have been some seriously crappy draft classes.

All busts/back-up level players: Jason Smith(2), Aaron Curry(4), Mark Sanchez(5), DHB(7), Aaron Maybin(11), Larry English(16), Josh Freeman(17)

Guys who are decent but haven't lived up to their draft status because of one reason or another: Tyson Jackson (3), Andre Smith (6), B.J. Raji (9), Knowsho Moron (12), Malcolm Jenkins (14), Robert Ayers (18), Brandon Pettigrew (20), Jeremy Maclin (19)

Even the only good to really good players from the top 20 in that draft class have some issue with them:

Stafford, 1 overall: Is likely only a marginal starter in this league without Calvin Johnson. Not smart and sloppy in his mechanics.

Brian Orakpo, 13 overall: Most dominant of the top 20 but has issues staying healthy. Still hasn't played to his full potential.

Brian Cushing, 15th overall: Showed flashes of being a dominant player but how much of that was due to PEDs? Also health issues.

Michael Crabtree, 10 overall: Lack of speed limits his big play ability and questions about his effort.

[ct]

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Who have been the most successful teams in recent history? Look at their play in the post-season.

The teams that end up winning are the teams that can protect, and the teams that can disrupt. In other words, championships really are won in the trenches.

Why did we lose to the Colts? We couldn't get to Andrew Luck.

Why did Broncos easily beat everyone except for the Seahawks in the playoffs? Their protection was good up until they had to face the Seahawks.

Why did the Seahawks win the SB in such dominant fashion? They were disruptive everywhere along their DL which helped their secondary tremendously.

Ravens and 49ers - both great fronts, defensively and offensively

Giants? Absolutely dominant up front on defense and their OL was also solid. They destroyed Brady's pockets all day long in route to a SB win.

Etc etc etc.

but you're talking about pass rushers, not space eaters. play makers vs gap fillers. take D-Lineman all they want, if they destroy the pocket, crush QBs and force TOs

[OldSchool]

I think the 2008 draft hurts a ton. Could have taken:

Ryan Clady over Glenn Dorsey.

Aquib Talib/DRC over Albert.

Then, here's the kicker:

Calais Campbell over Flowers.

Clady>> Albert

Talib/DRC>> Flowers

Campbell>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dorsey

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by ct

but you're talking about pass rushers, not space eaters. play makers vs gap fillers. take D-Lineman all they want, if they destroy the pocket, crush QBs and force TOs

Yup, I agree completely. I could give 2 sh*ts about a 2-gapping fatty, I don't want those. I want destroyers of worlds, not Atlas.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Carr wanted to be a hometown Cowboy & it looks like Albert wants to be a hometown Dolphin. THere is now accounting for taste.

[Mugsy]

Originally Posted by TEX

T.J. was anything but "solid" for most of his career. Two decent seasons does not mean it was a good pick. You need to get more than a 2 down player who turned out to be OK from a top 5 pick. It was a reach. He never really improved his skill set so he could be used in all situations. All he did is get better at what he does so in the end, you had a guy who was decent 2 down player.

D-linemen take time to develop. Rarely are they bad asses right out of the gate. I agree that no one understood that pick at the time but it could have been worse. It was definitely a reach. Most people wanted Smith, Curry, Crabtree, or Raji. How does he compare to those guys in terms of production and value? I think he equals or exceeds all of them.

In the last ten years, we've taken four d-linemen in the first round and three have worked out. Two have been studs. I like it and that's hitting that 50% mark that Ted Thompson talks about.

CP really sucked taking some of those guys in the 2nd round on but he did nail it on Jarred Allen. I really wanted Ryan Kalil when we took McBride. That was the biggest draft question mark ever imo. Most were excited about Tank Tyler and I get that one.

As far as Seattle goes, the key to beating Denver wasn't their pass rushing ability. It was their long arms and ability to knock down passes. They destroyed Denver because their d-line stopped the short passing game dead in its tracks by knocking down passes. We don't need twenty sacks out of our d-line to take the next step. We just need them to be a little more disruptive. I'd bet money that knocking down passes is going to be a major emphasis when offseason mini camps come along and throughout training camp.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Mugsy

It's ironic to hear some talk about "hope" imo. Hope is why they don't like Fisher. They didn't get the QB they hoped for and want to be right.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with that fact that people like you were here telling us how "safe" it was. What a ****ing turd of a pick.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Seriously? Did you even watch him play? They have a great front 7 and he looked like donkey sh*t pretty much the entire year.

Milliner was benched for poor play at least 3 times last year, in favor of a UDFA. And he was a top 10 pick.

Milliner finished the year with his 3 best games and was the Week 17 DPOW. Fisher finished the year in the ****ing hot tub. AND we had our best offensive performance of the year without him. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Cooper had a better rookie year than Milliner did and you would have rather had Milliner?

We could have had Cooper AND Milliner. I didn't say anything about Cooper. And yes, I absolutely would have rather had Milliner than Fisher.

[alpha_omega]

I for one will be glad when tomorrow comes and this deal is done....we will all be able to move on.