Tony Gonzalez opens up on Herm with both barrels - Page 11

Hammock Parties · 12-02-2007, 11:04 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/387172.html

Chiefs can’t come back against Chargers
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

The Chiefs lost their ability to make enough plays to win close games some time ago. They ran out of explanations shortly afterward.

Now they’re just plain out of gas. They trailed by a mere touchdown for most of the second half of Sunday’s game against San Diego at Arrowhead Stadium, but they might have played until midnight without getting that elusive tying score.

So they wound up losing 24-10, and the defeat pushed the 4-8 Chiefs to the brink of extinction in what passes for a race in the AFC West. They’re officially done if they lose to the Broncos in Denver next week.

The Chiefs tried their usual formula — keep things close until the fourth quarter and make the plays to win it then. It worked for them earlier in the season but again failed on Sunday when they were shut out in the final quarter for the fourth straight game.

“I’m tired of it and don’t want to play this style of football,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said. “It’s not what I’m into. I don’t think Herm (Edwards) wants to. We want to win. Let’s get it over with. I don’t want to keep the game close until the second half because we’re a second-half team. That’s bull. Let’s just go out there and win a football game.

“Let’s get rid of that stress. I’m tired of it. I’m sitting on the sideline thinking, ‘Here we go again.’ You can’t help but let those thoughts creep into your mind.”

That crisis of confidence was evident Sunday. Their seven-point deficit for most of the second half felt to them like a lot more.

Things got so bad for the offense that its only touchdown was scored by defensive end Jared Allen, who played on the goal-line ostensibly for blocking purposes. And Allen had to make a great catch of Damon Huard’s fade pass to do it.

“When you’re desperate,” Edwards said, “you do desperate things.”

Edwards hasn’t been desperate enough to change his philosophy on how to win. He defended it again Sunday, saying it’s the only way the Chiefs have a chance.

“We made plays (to win some early-season games),” Edwards said, referring to wins over Minnesota, San Diego and Oakland, all games the Chiefs salvaged in the fourth quarter. “That’s how we won.

“We have to play a certain way. We try to do that to protect the quarterback and make sure we can throw the ball. You have all of these fancy ideas there at the end and there are certain things we’re stuck with because of how we have to play.

“That’s OK. You can still win games that way. We just can’t get behind like that because that just puts you in a bad, bad way.”

The burden of keeping the game close fell to the defense, which again caved in. LaDainian Tomlinson rushed for 117 yards and two touchdowns in the second half.

“We know they’re going to make plays, realistically,” Allen said. “But to (heck) with that. Our mind-set has to be that they won’t make any plays. When stuff like that becomes acceptable, and all of a sudden you find yourself saying, ‘Oh, here we go again,’ that’s when the same (stuff) happens. That’s what’s been happening.

“We need to change the mind-set around here. The mind-set has got to be that this is not acceptable to lose at home. It’s not acceptable to be 10-10 at halftime and lose 24-10.”

The marvel regarding the Chiefs is not the five-game losing streak, their longest since 2000, or the five Arrowhead losses, most since they also lost five in 2001.

It’s that with this team — even with its numerous and obvious flaws — they won four of five games earlier in the season.

“Even then, we had some issues,” guard Brian Waters said. “When you look at games like Chicago and Houston, we had a couple of opportunities to come back in those games as well.

“We’ve started slowly in some parts of the season and now we’re not finishing the way we were. Really, we’re just trying to find a complete game.”

**Rausch** · 12-03-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

It's the decreased production, not just the injury. Football Outsiders ran several articles on this last year predicting a significant fall off in production this year. The correlation between carries in season n and decreased produciton in season n+1 is very strong. Carries correlate more strongly with decrease in production that "touches" which include pass receptions. The typical pounding on a pass reception is less than a typical running play. LT's production has been off this year too, although not as sharply as LJ's.

I don't think last year has anything to do with it. There wasn't much open for him to run through and he was tentative. He wasn't use to getting the ball and seeing squat open up. He changed the way he ran and started looking like Donnel Bennet - straight up the center's but for 2 or three yards.

Smith is a smaller back and just seems to run with that "squirmy" style. Marcus ran that way as well. You didn't really see any hole there but it was just big enough to squeeze through.

Pushead2 · 12-03-2007, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

I don't think last year has anything to do with it. There wasn't much open for him to run through and he was tentative. He wasn't use to getting the ball and seeing squat open up. He changed the way he ran and started looking like Donnel Bennet - straight up the center's but for 2 or three yards.

Smith is a smaller back and just seems to run with that "squirmy" style. Marcus ran that way as well. You didn't really see any hole there but it was just big enough to squeeze through.

Me personally I like that type of back better then the smash mouth football run up the middle and destroy both lines type.

**The Franchise** · 12-03-2007, 09:07 AM

I wonder if Gonzo will threaten to retire next year if he doesn't think that we do enough in the offseason.

el borracho · 12-03-2007, 10:00 AM

“We have to play a certain way. We try to do that to protect the quarterback and make sure we can throw the ball. You have all of these fancy ideas there at the end and there are certain things we’re stuck with because of how we have to play."

The way we are playing has not protected the quarterback. I am, however, very curious what Herm would like to do if he had the players. Someone should ask him.

Mecca · 12-03-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el borracho

“We have to play a certain way. We try to do that to protect the quarterback and make sure we can throw the ball. You have all of these fancy ideas there at the end and there are certain things we’re stuck with because of how we have to play."

The way we are playing has not protected the quarterback. I am, however, very curious what Herm would like to do if he had the players. Someone should ask him.

Just go look at the offensive stats he had with the Jets......he had offensive talent most years he was there.

I'd say just look at what the Jets best offensive year was there...

**ChiTown** · 12-03-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

There is a middle ground between the Indy game and going in a spread formation every down.

Don't:
Talk in the press how 21 points is a lot of points, talk about circuis offense, etc.
Make all of your pass plays less than 5 yards.
Think that you have to use all 3 downs to get a first down.
Think that 1st and 15 is an impossible obstacle.
Consider that the purpose of the offese is to rest a defense.
Take your foot off the offensive accelerator when you enter FG range.
Make it tougher on your rookie QB by castrating the offense.
Run pass patterns where EVERYONE turns and faces the QB after going 5 yards downfield.
Run the same play from the same formation more than twice in a game.

Do:
Use first down and 2nd and 6 or less to throw intermediate routes of 12 to 20 yards. The pass rush is less on these downs.
Make the defense defend the whole field. Even if it is a decoy reciever, spread the defenders out.
Expect and trust your players to do their job. If you don't they will meet your bad expectation every time.
Expect your defense to make mistakes.
Have the intention and well-crafted plans to score TDs in the redzone.
Find some weakness in the defensive opponent and game plan to exploit it. If there is a weak point in thier line, send 3 blockers to that point of attack.

BRAVO!

Great post.

el borracho · 12-03-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

I think they are mistaken to coddle Croyle so much. Definitely. They should let him do what Damon tried to do today.

But I don't buy at all that Herm hates passing and all that. He has a different tolerance for risk than most coaches. Too low for most of our tastes including mine. But why this comment and why today? He didn't kill us today.

Call out the linemen for looking like they've quit, call out Huard for not being able to hit a receiver in the numbers... put the blame where it belongs. JMO

Yep.

On a related note, when was the last time a receiver didn't have to jump to catch one of Damon's passes?

**ChiTown** · 12-03-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el borracho

Yep.

On a related note, when was the last time a receiver didn't have to jump to catch one of Damon's passes?

or catch one on the bounce..........

el borracho · 12-03-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Just go look at the offensive stats he had with the Jets......he had offensive talent most years he was there.

I'd say just look at what the Jets best offensive year was there...

Just to save me the trouble of looking it all up, would anyone who knows like to clue me in? What was the Jets offense like under Herm?

Hammock Parties · 12-03-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el borracho

Just to save me the trouble of looking it all up, would anyone who knows like to clue me in? What was the Jets offense like under Herm?

Average at best.

Best yards ranking - 12
Best points ranking - 15

They were ranked 21st or worse in total yardage 4 out of 5 years.

el borracho · 12-03-2007, 10:22 AM

What else do we know about it? Was it a run first offense? Timed routes? Play action? Ball control? I can't say I ever really paid attention to the Jets so I have no idea what they were like.

Hammock Parties · 12-03-2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el borracho

What else do we know about it? Was it a run first offense? Timed routes? Play action? Ball control? I can't say I ever really paid attention to the Jets so I have no idea what they were like.

They ran a west-coast system with a lot of power running. The last year they brought in heimerdinger to throw the ball down the field and it blew up in Herm's face.

**Gonzo** · 12-03-2007, 10:25 AM

I hope one of these days TG gets a ring. Every time I hear about Shields I can't help but think about all the years he was here and we never got him one. That's quite a shame.

Garcia Bronco · 12-03-2007, 10:27 AM

Seriously...and this is going to sound bad...but the only reason I can see for Herm Edwards being a head coach is because he's black...and no other reason. I just don't see any kind of accomplishment that would indicate otherwise. I must be missing something.

Mecca · 12-03-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Seriously...and this is going to sound bad...but the only reason I can see for Herm Edwards being a head coach is because he's black...and no other reason. I just don't see any kind of accomplishment that would indicate otherwise. I must be missing something.

I said this too......and I don't like saying it because it sounds awful.

12-02-2007, 11:04 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $990478	Tony Gonzalez opens up on Herm with both barrels http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/387172.html Chiefs can’t come back against Chargers By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star The Chiefs lost their ability to make enough plays to win close games some time ago. They ran out of explanations shortly afterward. Now they’re just plain out of gas. They trailed by a mere touchdown for most of the second half of Sunday’s game against San Diego at Arrowhead Stadium, but they might have played until midnight without getting that elusive tying score. So they wound up losing 24-10, and the defeat pushed the 4-8 Chiefs to the brink of extinction in what passes for a race in the AFC West. They’re officially done if they lose to the Broncos in Denver next week. The Chiefs tried their usual formula — keep things close until the fourth quarter and make the plays to win it then. It worked for them earlier in the season but again failed on Sunday when they were shut out in the final quarter for the fourth straight game. “I’m tired of it and don’t want to play this style of football,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said. “It’s not what I’m into. I don’t think Herm (Edwards) wants to. We want to win. Let’s get it over with. I don’t want to keep the game close until the second half because we’re a second-half team. That’s bull. Let’s just go out there and win a football game. “Let’s get rid of that stress. I’m tired of it. I’m sitting on the sideline thinking, ‘Here we go again.’ You can’t help but let those thoughts creep into your mind.” That crisis of confidence was evident Sunday. Their seven-point deficit for most of the second half felt to them like a lot more. Things got so bad for the offense that its only touchdown was scored by defensive end Jared Allen, who played on the goal-line ostensibly for blocking purposes. And Allen had to make a great catch of Damon Huard’s fade pass to do it. “When you’re desperate,” Edwards said, “you do desperate things.” Edwards hasn’t been desperate enough to change his philosophy on how to win. He defended it again Sunday, saying it’s the only way the Chiefs have a chance. “We made plays (to win some early-season games),” Edwards said, referring to wins over Minnesota, San Diego and Oakland, all games the Chiefs salvaged in the fourth quarter. “That’s how we won. “We have to play a certain way. We try to do that to protect the quarterback and make sure we can throw the ball. You have all of these fancy ideas there at the end and there are certain things we’re stuck with because of how we have to play. “That’s OK. You can still win games that way. We just can’t get behind like that because that just puts you in a bad, bad way.” The burden of keeping the game close fell to the defense, which again caved in. LaDainian Tomlinson rushed for 117 yards and two touchdowns in the second half. “We know they’re going to make plays, realistically,” Allen said. “But to (heck) with that. Our mind-set has to be that they won’t make any plays. When stuff like that becomes acceptable, and all of a sudden you find yourself saying, ‘Oh, here we go again,’ that’s when the same (stuff) happens. That’s what’s been happening. “We need to change the mind-set around here. The mind-set has got to be that this is not acceptable to lose at home. It’s not acceptable to be 10-10 at halftime and lose 24-10.” The marvel regarding the Chiefs is not the five-game losing streak, their longest since 2000, or the five Arrowhead losses, most since they also lost five in 2001. It’s that with this team — even with its numerous and obvious flaws — they won four of five games earlier in the season. “Even then, we had some issues,” guard Brian Waters said. “When you look at games like Chicago and Houston, we had a couple of opportunities to come back in those games as well. “We’ve started slowly in some parts of the season and now we’re not finishing the way we were. Really, we’re just trying to find a complete game.”
Posts: 296,830

12-03-2007, 09:07 AM	#153
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2075047	I wonder if Gonzo will threaten to retire next year if he doesn't think that we do enough in the offseason.
Posts: 92,316

12-03-2007, 10:00 AM	#154
el borracho In Pat We Trust Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Albuquerque, NM Casino cash: $2699148	“We have to play a certain way. We try to do that to protect the quarterback and make sure we can throw the ball. You have all of these fancy ideas there at the end and there are certain things we’re stuck with because of how we have to play." The way we are playing has not protected the quarterback. I am, however, very curious what Herm would like to do if he had the players. Someone should ask him.
Posts: 12,247

12-03-2007, 10:22 AM	#161
el borracho In Pat We Trust Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Albuquerque, NM Casino cash: $2699148	What else do we know about it? Was it a run first offense? Timed routes? Play action? Ball control? I can't say I ever really paid attention to the Jets so I have no idea what they were like.
Posts: 12,247

12-03-2007, 10:27 AM	#164
Garcia Bronco No Keys, No Problem Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Denver Casino cash: $1843136	Seriously...and this is going to sound bad...but the only reason I can see for Herm Edwards being a head coach is because he's black...and no other reason. I just don't see any kind of accomplishment that would indicate otherwise. I must be missing something.
Posts: 32,835