Dakota Fanning to be raped onscreen

[Iowanian]

Originally Posted by Mecca

So are you going to go into the "I'm better than you" spiel now.......Although the condescending attitude you apply when speaking does amuse me just because well it's a message board.

For someone who has alot of opinions and someone who likes to talk to others who don't agree with them like they're tongue chewers, its funny how you can't be disagreed with.

Its not really a proper tizzyfit unless you stamp your feet though...thats all that was missing from your earlier post.

I may be an intollerable, condecending, unfunny prick....but I'm not on a message board supporting a naked 12 year old girl being fake raped as a reasonable Idea....for a movie maker or her dumbass parental unit. you are.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

For someone who has alot of opinions and someone who likes to talk to others who don't agree with them like they're tongue chewers, its funny how you can't be disagreed with.

Its not really a proper tizzyfit unless you stamp your feet though...thats all that was missing from your earlier post.

I may be an intollerable, condecending, unfunny prick....but I'm not on a message board supporting a naked 12 year old girl being fake raped as a reasonable Idea....for a movie maker or her dumbass parental unit. you are.

I don't personally care if people disagree with me......however acting like your higher on the food chain than me by "cutting me down" is a good way to annoy me.

I explained my position on this movie, it doesn't bother me because simply it's just a damn movie.

[Iowanian]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I don't personally care if people disagree with me......however acting like your higher on the food chain than me by "cutting me down" is a good way to annoy me.

I explained my position on this movie, it doesn't bother me because simply it's just a damn movie.

It seems like just last week, or earlier this week, I made several posts offering you what I thought was good, honest advice and help...you basically said "pffffffft".

As for annoying you, during some of you 15k posts in the last year, I think you might have picked up on the Chris Angelesque Illusion that I'd be the one to give a crap if I "annoy" you.

That shadow following you around, is Karma Earl.

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by Mecca

So are you going to go into the "I'm better than you" spiel now.......Although the condescending attitude you apply when speaking does amuse me just because well it's a message board.

I think the reason you are getting slammed on for supporting such a sick idea is the fact that some of us on here are parents.

It is different when you have kids-their life is your life-they are everything to you. I don't need to put what would happen if someone tried to tape my daughter naked or put her in a simulated rape scene. I reacted so negatively because of my love for my kids and all kids. It has nothing to do with religion or being a prude-it is because it is morally wrong.

This is a topic that could open a lot of eyes to the problem, but to go over the top to create publicity, is where the directer is crossing the line.

[keg in kc]

Blanket comment: "Worry about your own kids, and let her mom deal with raising her. If no laws are being broken (and it wouldn't have been filmed if any were), it's none of your business. Do what you think is right, and give others the freedom to do the same."

I find the concept of the film disturbing, but sometimes these things need to be done to open people's eyes to issues in the real world. Movies, like books, aren't always just about entertainment.

[Donger]

I asked this question earlier. Perhaps it was answered, but I'm not going to go back through all these posts: Was this child rape a historical fact? Did what is filmed actually happen in real life?

[mcan]

Originally Posted by Donger

I asked this question earlier. Perhaps it was answered, but I'm not going to go back through all these posts: Was this child rape a historical fact? Did what is filmed actually happen in real life?

I don't think it's a specific "true story" of a real girl. It shouldn't be either. That just makes it seem that further away from the average movie goer. But, this type of thing DOES happen. Sexually motivated kidnappings happen all the time in this country. Molestation by family members and people known to the victim happen countless times every day. Probably one every couple of minutes in this country. My bet is you know of a half a dozen people who have been abused, and never told anybody. My bet is a half dozen on this board have been abused. It's stupidly common. Did you see the Dateline with the child predators. They caught a new one every half hour by baiting them with actors pretending to be children who invited them to their house. These guys come crawling out of the woodwork as soon as you sound the horn.

Why do these people exist? How come so few people know how bad the problem is? What are we going to do about? What is societies role in protecting children? These are very important questions, and if a movie puts the problem under a microscope and makes people think about it, the way movies for the past few generations have made us think about race relations and war, then I think it's a great idea.

But, I repeat, again... "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES IS IT COOL TO JEOPORDIZE THE HEALTH AND WELL BEING OF ANY ACTOR OR ACTRESS FOR THE PURPOSE OF A ROLE." This goes for 12 year olds who are playing parts that are deemed dangerous because of their content, or 35 year olds who are in an action movie and have to jump from a train. Every precaution must be made that the actor both feels and actually is safe. But, that doesn't mean that 12 year olds should be banned from taking on mature roles, nor does it mean that actors should never jump from trains in movies. It just means that every precaution needs to be taken to ensure that actor is safe.

--This isn't a religious debate and it's really not a porn vs. nudity debate. It's the fact that she's a 12 year old girl.

--I think people would still hold the opinions they hold if it was full out nudity with simulated hip movement.... but I guess we'll have to see.

--I reacted so negatively because of my love for my kids and all kids. It has nothing to do with religion or being a prude-it is because it is morally wrong.

--WHAT about her being a 12 year old girl? Is it her maturity level? Or simply what year she was born? Are you worried for her safety? Are you worried for her mental well being? "It's just wrong" isn't the reason the laws against child porn were invented. Nor is that the reason for age of consent laws. Nor is that the reason for any law. Tell me why this movie is or should be breaking laws. If you believe that 12 year olds just SHOULDN'T be involved in anything that deals with these types of mature issues, then you're making a MORAL argument. Where do you get your morals? Religion? Philosophy? Parents? Either way, I don't believe it's acceptable for us to assume that our morals are infallible, or that others are flawed without a logical argument as to why.

--I think the scene you are describing would go beyond the reasonable limits of good taste, and would probably start to qualify as real life child porn. I SERIOUSLY doubt what you are describing is anything like what we'll see. Have you seen Mystic River? I think it'll be more like that. Perhaps she will be bare chested. But if the scene looks at all like it could be on Showtime (where sure there isn't penetration but it sure as hell isn't for the sake of the plot) then this film has overstepped the lines, and I'd be pretty upset.

--Nothing to with religion? Ok, so where did you get that moral absolute that it is wrong for a 12 year old portray adult themes in a movie? I'm not disagreeing with the morality of child rape... Obviously, rape is wrong, period. Sex with a 12 year old is wrong, period... But how is playing a kid in a movie who is being sexually molested and tortured even a question of morality? What is your moral standard, and why should it be forced upon the rest of the world by law?

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by mcan

I don't think it's a specific "true story" of a real girl. It shouldn't be either. That just makes it seem that further away from the average movie goer. But, this type of thing DOES happen. Sexually motivated kidnappings happen all the time in this country. Molestation by family members and people known to the victim happen countless times every day. Probably one every couple of minutes in this country. My bet is you know of a half a dozen people who have been abused, and never told anybody. My bet is a half dozen on this board have been abused. It's stupidly common. Did you see the Dateline with the child predators. They caught a new one every half hour by baiting them with actors pretending to be children who invited them to their house. These guys come crawling out of the woodwork as soon as you sound the horn.

Why do these people exist? How come so few people know how bad the problem is? What are we going to do about? What is societies role in protecting children? These are very important questions, and if a movie puts the problem under a microscope and makes people think about it, the way movies for the past few generations have made us think about race relations and war, then I think it's a great idea.

But, I repeat, again... "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES IS IT COOL TO JEOPORDIZE THE HEALTH AND WELL BEING OF ANY ACTOR OR ACTRESS FOR THE PURPOSE OF A ROLE." This goes for 12 year olds who are playing parts that are deemed dangerous because of their content, or 35 year olds who are in an action movie and have to jump from a train. Every precaution must be made that the actor both feels and actually is safe. But, that doesn't mean that 12 year olds should be banned from taking on mature roles, nor does it mean that actors should never jump from trains in movies. It just means that every precaution needs to be taken to ensure that actor is safe.



--WHAT about her being a 12 year old girl? Is it her maturity level? Or simply what year she was born? Are you worried for her safety? Are you worried for her mental well being? "It's just wrong" isn't the reason the laws against child porn were invented. Nor is that the reason for age of consent laws. Nor is that the reason for any law. Tell me why this movie is or should be breaking laws. If you believe that 12 year olds just SHOULDN'T be involved in anything that deals with these types of mature issues, then you're making a MORAL argument. Where do you get your morals? Religion? Philosophy? Parents? Either way, I don't believe it's acceptable for us to assume that our morals are infallible, or that others are flawed without a logical argument as to why.

--I think the scene you are describing would go beyond the reasonable limits of good taste, and would probably start to qualify as real life child porn. I SERIOUSLY doubt what you are describing is anything like what we'll see. Have you seen Mystic River? I think it'll be more like that. Perhaps she will be bare chested. But if the scene looks at all like it could be on Showtime (where sure there isn't penetration but it sure as hell isn't for the sake of the plot) then this film has overstepped the lines, and I'd be pretty upset.

--Nothing to with religion? Ok, so where did you get that moral absolute that it is wrong for a 12 year old portray adult themes in a movie? I'm not disagreeing with the morality of child rape... Obviously, rape is wrong, period. Sex with a 12 year old is wrong, period... But how is playing a kid in a movie who is being sexually molested and tortured even a question of morality? What is your moral standard, and why should it be forced upon the rest of the world by law?

Why are you typing full pages to defend a simulated rape scene on a 12 year old? It is starting to sound very creepy. SHE IS 12 YEARS OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mcan]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Why are you typing full pages to defend a simulated rape scene on a 12 year old? It is starting to sound very creepy. SHE IS 12 YEARS OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry the posts are so long. I guess I think that certain issues are delicate and require some explaining and some sound judgment and reasoning.

But what's ironic is that the theme of my post was primarily asking this question: "She's 12 years old... So what about her being 12 should make her unable to play this role?"

"She's 12" isn't argument. It's just a simple assurtion of fact. You have to make a valid point in there somewhere. An example of some logic (that I don't agree with but at least would be an attempt) would be:



All 12 year olds are emotionally immature ->
Emotionally immature people are easily scarred for life by traumatic events ->
All 12 year olds are incapable of deciphering reality from simulation ->
----------------------------------------------------------
If a 12 year old participates in a simulated traumatic event, that 12 year old will probably be scarred for life.



That's a logical argument. I believe that the logic is flawed by the words "all" and because "emotionally immature" is a vague term. But at least that would be an attempt to put reason behind your assurtion that this movie is morally wrong. Just saying "She's 12" doesn't cut it...

[keg in kc]

One thing you need to remember, too, is that a lot of stuff ends up on the cutting room floor;there's no guarantee it'll ever appear in the final cut. If this film ever sees the light of day, the editor may decide it's over the top, the studio may decide it's over the top, etc., and the mother may even decide it's over the top.

For instance, remember Natalie Portman in Closer? Full frontal was shot....no one will ever see it, because the director cut it from the film and agreed to destroy the raw footage.

[Iowanian]

"dude, pass me the chips, I got next"

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

"dude, pass me the chips, I got next"

So are you always a douchebag or just when you come around here?

Don't get me wrong the "I'm 45 years old but I'm perpetually still in high school" act is funny sometimes but don't you think it's time to let it go?

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

"dude, pass me the bong, I got next"

Fixed your post.

[|Zach|]

There is indeed a lot assumed when it comes to Iowanian's commentary on other people's lives...

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by ZachKC

There is indeed a lot assumed when it comes to Iowanian's commentary on other people's lives...

Well see people from Iowa aren't that smart.......kinda goes with the territory. Because well we all know what Iowa stands for.