Pujols signs w Angels

[Willie Lanier]

per Dan Patrick Show

wow

[Carlota69]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

$183 million.

He bought it at an incredible time, right before revenues really took off. He made a great purchase there.

Now tell me - did getting Vernon Wells increase the value of the Angels? No, no it did not. Torii Hunter? Nope. The value of the Angles increased as a product of excellent timing and little else.

If Pujols is the player he was last year, there's no way that contract will ever pay for itself. Fans, especially fans in LA, have the attention span of a rodent. If he's not winning MVPs and driving championship runs, the contract will be a bust.

Granted - there's a chance that he feels slighted and this contract drives him to kick ass. It could pay off for him. Then again, every other big-money purchase that Moreno has made over the last 5 years has blown up on him, so I see no reason to see why this would be much different.

Sorry, but thats pretty short-sighted of you. While LA may not be a huge football market, we are a baseball market. And based on the TV deal already being projected becasue of Pujols, his contract will be paid for in 3 years. I understand its too much money for anyone, but in this case, it makes a ton of sense for The Angels and their needs beyond the lineup.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by frazod

Dude, it's not like he went to the Cubs or the Reds.

I mean, if he had to go anywhere, better he goes to a team nobody gives a shit about in another league.

There is that, but again, if you're gonna leave, just have the guts to admit that you're the same kind of greedy scumbag like the other 750 guys in the league. Don't separate yourself as being above the fray.

That's why people revel in the falls from grace of assbags like Haggard, Jimmy Swaggert, etc. They couch themselves as holier than thou only to be the same kind of lecherous one who sucks the penis as all the rest.

[kcpasco]

Originally Posted by L.A.Chieffan

how insightful

I grew up 2 hours west of St. Louis dickbag. Calling people in here bandwagon fans makes you look like a reerun.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Carlota69

Sorry, but thats pretty short-sighted of you. While LA may not be a huge football market, we are a baseball market. And based on the TV deal already being projected becasue of Pujols, his contract will be paid for in 3 years. I understand its too much money for anyone, but in this case, it makes a ton of sense for The Angels and their needs beyond the lineup.

Plus they've won a championship in recent memory and this might be construed as a push to......

........win another.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Really? Ugh. Not a back-breaking contract, but it's also far from great.

We'll have to see what he ends up signing for, but I honestly believe that Fielder is getting undervalued in a lot of discussions amongst fans because of his body type. Though he looks the part of the fat slob, his performance, athleticism, and longevity argue otherwise.

He's one of the few FA whom I believe could actually earn the type of FA dollars that he's going to see.

I agree.

I'd go to 6 years/$144 million; maybe even an extra year if necessary. That takes you through his age 34 season. The last 2 years of that may be a little ugly, but his batting eye and his power will still be there even when his quick twitch muscles start to fail him.

Then again...he could just be Mo Vaughn all over again.

It's hard to say, but I think the Cardinals owe it to their fans to take that chance. Matt Holliday's a nice player, but he's not a franchise cornerstone. Lance Berkman was, but he's aging rapidly. The Cardinals are the crown jewel of the National League (scoreboard, shithead Dodger fans). They owe their fans a legitimate contender.

It's hard to compete without a cleanup hitter - go get him, DeWitt.

[Carlota69]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Plus they've won a championship in recent memory and this might be construed as a push to......

........win another.

Exactly. Like someone mentioned he didnt go to a losing team. The Angels contend for the playoffs year in and year out and we contended for the division til the last week of the season in '11. Granted the Card won the WS and they are a great team--still.

The difference is the DH factor, and this is just my opinion. In 4-5 years he can DH if he cant play 1st anymore. IN STlL he'd be a pinch hitter and maybe bat once a game. In the AL he can still play everyday and bat 3-4 times a game and this gives him the best shot at the HR title.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

There is that, but again, if you're gonna leave, just have the guts to admit that you're the same kind of greedy scumbag like the other 750 guys in the league. Don't separate yourself as being above the fray.

That's why people revel in the falls from grace of assbags like Haggard, Jimmy Swaggert, etc. They couch themselves as holier than thou only to be the same kind of lecherous one who sucks the penis as all the rest.

Can't argue with that, and I'll definitely chuckle a bit if he ends up being a total bust out there, but he's better off on an American League team with a DH, and at the end of the day I think that's why he made this move. Five years from now he's a light-hitting, injury prone liability on an NL squad, but has a chance to be a still-productive DH on an AL squad. Too bad we couldn't have squeezed two more years out of him, but it is what it is. Unless we end up playing the Angels in the World Series, this won't come back to haunt us.

Like I said earlier, he's dead to me now, and by that I mean I don't give a shit whether he succeeds or fails, lives or dies. Much like Tony Gonzalez, it's over. But I don't have to hate him now, since him being in the AL West means absolutely nothing to me, just like Tony playing for the Falcons means nothing to me.

To pull a Bronco Neil, he'd have to (a) go the Cubs, (b) immediately disrespect the entire Cardinal fanbase, (c) continue to deliberately mock the fans with his actions on the field, (d) be part of a Cubs team that actively cheated to knock us out of the playoffs, (e) win a championship with the Cubs, and then (f) after all that, come crawling back and try to act like he's always been Mr. Cardinal. None of those things will happen here.

[Carlota69]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I agree.

I'd go to 6 years/$144 million; maybe even an extra year if necessary. That takes you through his age 34 season. The last 2 years of that may be a little ugly, but his batting eye and his power will still be there even when his quick twitch muscles start to fail him.

Then again...he could just be Mo Vaughn all over again.

It's hard to say, but I think the Cardinals owe it to their fans to take that chance. Matt Holliday's a nice player, but he's not a franchise cornerstone. Lance Berkman was, but he's aging rapidly. The Cardinals are the crown jewel of the National League (scoreboard, shithead Dodger fans). They owe their fans a legitimate contender.

It's hard to compete without a cleanup hitter - go get him, DeWitt.

Fielder?? I hope you guys get him. He would be perfect for you guys.

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by Carlota69

Fielder?? I hope you guys get him. He would be perfect for you guys.

I'm sure you do, since there's a decent chance the Rangers could make a run at him.
Posted via Mobile Device

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by frazod

Can't argue with that, and I'll definitely chuckle a bit if he ends up being a total bust out there, but he's better off on an American League team with a DH, and at the end of the day I think that's why he made this move. Five years from now he's a light-hitting, injury prone liability on an NL squad, but has a chance to be a still-productive DH on an AL squad. Too bad we couldn't have squeezed two more years out of him, but it is what it is. Unless we end up playing the Angels in the World Series, this won't come back to haunt us.

Like I said earlier, he's dead to me now, and by that I mean I don't give a shit whether he succeeds or fails, lives or dies. Much like Tony Gonzalez, it's over. But I don't have to hate him now, since him being in the AL West means absolutely nothing to me, just like Tony playing for the Falcons means nothing to me.

To pull a Bronco Neil, he'd have to (a) go the Cubs, (b) immediately disrespect the entire Cardinal fanbase, (c) continue to deliberately mock the fans with his actions on the field, (d) be part of a Cubs team that actively cheated to knock us out of the playoffs, (e) win a championship with the Cubs, and then (f) after all that, come crawling back and try to act like he's always been Mr. Cardinal. None of those things will happen here.

All good points.

I can't really think of a corollary for this. The closest I could is a hypothetical. Imagine if the Chiefs had drafted Marino over Blackledge, they won two SBs with him, and then Marino, after professing himself as a blue collar Midwestern/Rust Belt guy the whole time, left in 1993 to go play for the LA Rams.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Give Fielder 6 years and 151 million. That will make him a higher paid player than Pujols.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Carlota69

Sorry, but thats pretty short-sighted of you. While LA may not be a huge football market, we are a baseball market. And based on the TV deal already being projected becasue of Pujols, his contract will be paid for in 3 years. I understand its too much money for anyone, but in this case, it makes a ton of sense for The Angels and their needs beyond the lineup.

I'll believe it when I see it. LA is a Laker's market first, anyway. If Howard gets traded to LA, Pujols will be the 3rd dog in that town immediately, maybe even 4th behind Griffin. And if the Dodgers were worth a damn, he would possibly slip to 5th behind Kemp.

If Angels fans are really sprinting to the ballpark to see a declining .299 hitter, I'll be shocked. He hasn't built up the goodwill in the LA area that he has in STL. If he doesn't come out and live up to that contract, they simply aren't going to care. They're going to spend their money on Kobe and Griffin. If the Dodgers come back strong, they'll spend it there. And the California economy is going to crater; it really doesn't have a choice with the deficits you fellas run out there.

If he comes out there and plays like he played during his prime, you're absolutely right - the fans will come; I've conceded as such. However, if he plays like he played in 2011 - i.e about as well as Kendry Morales did in 2009 - the shine will come off that contract in a hurry.

You can cite 'Fernandomania' all you want - as long as you admit that it lasted all of one season. By 1983 he was just another pitcher and Dodger fans went right back to showing up in the 3rd inning. In 2003, the year after they won the WS, the Angels drew about 85% of their capacity, (the Cardinals, OTOH, put over 2K per game over their stated capacity of 46,000 in 2007).

The LA area fans have no attention span to speak of. Every season, Moreno has to get the Angels fans a shiny new bauble to convince them to come out to the park. In 2004, it was Guerrerro, in 2005 it was Colon, in 2006 it was Jeff Weaver, in 2007 it was Gary Mathews, in 2008 it was Torii Hunter, in 2009 it was Bobby Abreu, in 2010 it was Vernon Wells.

Really? Baseball town? Every season your owner has to go out there and throw a bunch of money at a declining player to keep you folks involved. The year after the Angels won the World Series, they had the audacity to only win 77 games and suddenly you people couldn't get 38,000 people to come to the ballpark.

Spare me - if he's great and the Angels win, fans will come out. If he sucks, Angels fans will do what Angels fans have always done - they'll find something else to do.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

All good points.

I can't really think of a corollary for this. The closest I could is a hypothetical. Imagine if the Chiefs had drafted Marino over Blackledge, they won two SBs with him, and then Marino, after professing himself as a blue collar Midwestern/Rust Belt guy the whole time, left in 1993 to go play for the LA Rams.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not happy about this. Having Albert go from my favorite player to ****ing zero stinks. It's going to suck seeing him play for another team, and suck even more listening to ESPrickN endlessly ballwash him because he's playing in a major market now. It also takes a bit of luster off what should have been a very enjoyable celebrating-the-World-Series off season.

But his last game for us was a Game 7 World Series win. We rode him to two World Championships, three pennants, and more division wins that I can remember at the moment. We got his best years. Would have liked more, but I'll take what he's done over what he will do, because I think it's a safe bet he won't match those accomplishments again.

[Carlota69]

Originally Posted by doomy3

I'm sure you do, since there's a decent chance the Rangers could make a run at him.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yep, keep him in the NL please. But also, it is a good fit for you guys.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by frazod

Don't get me wrong - I'm not happy about this. Having Albert go from my favorite player to ****ing zero stinks. It's going to suck seeing him play for another team, and suck even more listening to ESPrickN endlessly ballwash him because he's playing in a major market now. It also takes a bit of luster off what should have been a very enjoyable celebrating-the-World-Series off season.

But his last game for us was a Game 7 World Series win. We rode him to two World Championships, three pennants, and more division wins that I can remember at the moment. We got his best years. Would have liked more, but I'll take what he's done over what he will do, because I think it's a safe bet he won't match those accomplishments again.

You're absolutely right. When looking at it from a purely logical, value-driven standpoint the Cardinals got every possible ounce of surplus value out of him, and reaped the rewards in financial and competitive success. The only refrain I have is a tired one, and that's I wish his legacy meant more to him than the difference between 22 million dollars a year and 25 million dollars a year.

A man who is going to make well over 360 million dollars playing baseball completely tarnished his legacy in a town where he would have been the God of gods.

$30 million bucks is a shitload of money to 99.999 percent of the population, but for someone like Pujols, it's a drop in the bucket compared to what he would have been in St. Louis.

I will say this: I'm now ecstatic that Mike Adams made an ass of him in his last AB in a Cardinal uniform.