Pagano Tosses Luck under the bus

[oaklandhater]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

not everything is about Alex Smith

Andrew Luck >>>>> Alex Smith

now that we're past that ... if the Chiefs had won the Luck lottery and his play on the field with KC is what it is over in Indy I would be grossly disappointed

nothing I have seen with Andrew Luck, thus far, has shown me he's the next great NFL HOF QB

He's solid ... but he's more Philip Rivers / Eli Manning tier than Peyton Manning / Tom Brady tier.

He has not lived up to his billing in any way, shape, or form [thus far].

But yes, he does have all of the talent in the world ... but so do a lot of guys. I just don't make excuses for poor play.

Most people on here would have been ecstatic to get luck going from cassell to luck most of us would have been pleased to see a real passing game I can't stand game manager QBs anymore.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

not everything is about Alex Smith

Andrew Luck >>>>> Alex Smith

now that we're past that ... if the Chiefs had won the Luck lottery and his play on the field with KC is what it is over in Indy I would be grossly disappointed

I know you're smarter than this. The Colts are nearly void of talent. They are awful as a team.

I don't care how good your QB is, if the team as a whole sucks, the QB can only do so much.

Look at the Packers. As good as Rodgers is, they haven't been back to the SB since they won it.

And Seattle isn't winning shit without that D.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by BigMeatballDave

I know you're smarter than this. The Colts are nearly void of talent. They are awful as a team.

They have an excellent WR corps, and the TEs are solid also. Nothing wrong with a combo of Frank Gore and Josh Robinson either.

Yes, their OL is weak. Yes, their defense is weak.. which only serves to inflate Luck's stats. A big problem is that they lead the league in turnovers... with 10.. nearly all thanks to Luck.

This is not to say that Luck isn't generally a good QB. Just that he's not that good, and is typically overrated.

[dls6501]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

not everything is about Alex Smith

Andrew Luck >>>>> Alex Smith

now that we're past that ... if the Chiefs had won the Luck lottery and his play on the field with KC is what it is over in Indy I would be grossly disappointed

nothing I have seen with Andrew Luck, thus far, has shown me he's the next great NFL HOF QB

He's solid ... but he's more Philip Rivers / Eli Manning tier than Peyton Manning / Tom Brady tier.

He has not lived up to his billing in any way, shape, or form [thus far].

But yes, he does have all of the talent in the world ... but so do a lot of guys. I just don't make excuses for poor play.

If Andrew Luck played with Charles and our defense, he would not play with the gunslinger mentality that he does. Andrew Luck has to do EVERYTHING for his team to have a chance to win. If he doesn't throw 3 touchdowns, the chances of his team winning are VERY slim. So you saying you would be disappointed by Luck if he played this way with us is not realistic. He wouldn't play this way.

[notorious]

Luck needs to get out of that shithole.

[Hootie]

I don't buy that bullshit. The Colts were 3-1 in December last year and there QB played absolute garbage football.

Luck doesn't have to do "everything." Luck has a GM who constantly drafts him weapons and brings in guys like Andre Johnson and Frank Gore who were supposed to be awesome sleeper picks since they finally had an awesome QB to put them in places to excel.

I know, I know, I know ... his line sucks. Pretty convenient excuse. I think it's just another way of saying, "meh. Luck hasn't lived up to his hype."

and that's not an insult.

I would probably put Luck as the 7th or 8th best QB in the NFL right now. That's awesome. But he hasn't lived up to his unreal hype and I see nothing out of him that suggests to me he's some sure fire HOF'er. He's a fast Eli Manning. I love Eli. Eli is great. But has Eli ever been a top 5 QB in any given year? No. And neither has Luck. And Luck has regressed every single year IMO.

I think it's as safe to say that Luck will always be this guy, nothing more ... and that's ok. It's just not John Elway.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I don't buy that bullshit. The Colts were 3-1 in December last year and there QB played absolute garbage football.

Luck doesn't have to do "everything." Luck has a GM who constantly drafts him weapons and brings in guys like Andre Johnson and Frank Gore who were supposed to be awesome sleeper picks since they finally had an awesome QB to put them in places to excel.

I know, I know, I know ... his line sucks. Pretty convenient excuse. I think it's just another way of saying, "meh. Luck hasn't lived up to his hype."

and that's not an insult.

I would probably put Luck as the 7th or 8th best QB in the NFL right now. That's awesome. But he hasn't lived up to his unreal hype and I see nothing out of him that suggests to me he's some sure fire HOF'er. He's a fast Eli Manning. I love Eli. Eli is great. But has Eli ever been a top 5 QB in any given year? No. And neither has Luck. And Luck has regressed every single year IMO.

I think it's as safe to say that Luck will always be this guy, nothing more ... and that's ok. It's just not John Elway.

I agree with most of what you say about Luck, but I don't agree with that last paragraph.

As someone in another thread mentioned, a QB can be taught to limit turnovers. You can't teach a lot of what makes Luck so good, though.

I expect both him and Wilson to get better over the next 10-12 years as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady did.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I don't buy that bullshit. The Colts were 3-1 in December last year and there QB played absolute garbage football.

Luck doesn't have to do "everything." Luck has a GM who constantly drafts him weapons and brings in guys like Andre Johnson and Frank Gore who were supposed to be awesome sleeper picks since they finally had an awesome QB to put them in places to excel.

I know, I know, I know ... his line sucks. Pretty convenient excuse. I think it's just another way of saying, "meh. Luck hasn't lived up to his hype."

and that's not an insult.

I would probably put Luck as the 7th or 8th best QB in the NFL right now. That's awesome. But he hasn't lived up to his unreal hype and I see nothing out of him that suggests to me he's some sure fire HOF'er. He's a fast Eli Manning. I love Eli. Eli is great. But has Eli ever been a top 5 QB in any given year? No. And neither has Luck. And Luck has regressed every single year IMO.

I think it's as safe to say that Luck will always be this guy, nothing more ... and that's ok. It's just not John Elway.

Could well be. Exactly how Patriots fans viewed Drew Bledsoe. We desperately wnated him to be Elway or Marino. He wasn't, and never would be.

That doesn't make him terrible. It just means he's not teh AWESOME.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Could well be. Exactly how Patriots fans viewed Drew Bledsoe. We desperately wnated him to be Elway or Marino. He wasn't, and never would be.

That doesn't make him terrible. It just means he's not teh AWESOME.

And he's got as high a ceiling as any QB to ever be drafted but that doesn't mean he ever reaches it.

Kerry Collins took a 2nd year expansion team to the NFCC game, the Titans to a 13-3 record, and the Giants to a SB. Unlimited potential but it was never reached because his first 5 years were spent being a complete idiot.

Mike Vick, Jeff George, etc...

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Rausch

And he's got as high a ceiling as any QB to ever be drafted but that doesn't mean he ever reaches it.

Yes. His arm was AMAZING. He could throw any pass, anywhere, any time.

And he had a very good coach (Parcells), and after a couple of years he had elite players at the skill positions -- Curtis Martin at RB and Ben Coates at TE. They got the Pats to a SB so I have no complaints.

Bledsoe coudl absolutely LIGHT IT UP when he was "on", but too often he made too many mistakes. Held the ball too long, not much pocket awareness, staring down receivers, FAR more interested in the big strike than taking the checkdown that was RIGHT THERE, etc. etc. etc.

Kerry Collins took a 2nd year expansion team to the NFCC game, the Titans to a 13-3 record, and the Giants to a SB. Unlimited potential but it was never reached because his first 5 years were spent being a complete idiot.

Mike Vick, Jeff George, etc...

And the ultrabusts. Ryan Leaf (2nd in draft), Rick Mirer (2nd in draft, not an ultra bust, but not good), etc ad infinitum.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

And the ultrabusts. Ryan Leaf (2nd in draft), Rick Mirer (2nd in draft, not an ultra bust, but not good), etc ad infinitum.

I think it's safe to assume Luck won't be anywhere near a bust but I think people need to lower their expectations.

****ing Dan Marino never won a SB because of his craptastic running game, O line, and defense. At times he had 1 of the three but most times he didn't.

A top 10 offensive line makes an average HB look great, clearly helps the QB, and even a respectable D with the two above is a playoff team.

Indi was much better about building a "team" around Manning than they have been with Luck...

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Could well be. Exactly how Patriots fans viewed Drew Bledsoe. We desperately wnated him to be Elway or Marino. He wasn't, and never would be.

That doesn't make him terrible. It just means he's not teh AWESOME.

He should get credit for turning that franchise around though.

The Pats were awful in the early 90s. And he was good pretty much immediately.

He never did seem to reach his ceiling though.

[Mennonite]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

He never did seem to reach his ceiling though.

Maybe he should have tried cheating. That seems to work.

[RobBlake]

drew bledsoe operates a winery now.. if i recall correctly

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

He should get credit for turning that franchise around though.

The Pats were awful in the early 90s. And he was good pretty much immediately.

He never did seem to reach his ceiling though.

The Patriots turnaround was primarily due to three men -- Kraft, Parcells and Bledsoe. I give the first two (especially Parcells) more credit than Bledsoe. But yes, Bledsoe was good right away, and definitely helped to quickly turned the team around.

I think Bledsoe did reach his ceiling. His ceiling was just lower than we hoped, because his ceiling was determined by his head, not his arm.