Royals 2010 Kansas City Royals Repository thread - Page 183

SPchief · 04:22 PM

All Royals All The Time!

After consultation with others who peruse the game threads we decided to create this as a repository for all things Royals. Minor league news, AL (ahem) Central (thanks Vonne) news and anything Royals can be found here.

alnorth, me and atleast 5 others will continue the game threads as usual. But if you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

If a big story breaks, you can still start a thread about it. There is merely an all inclusive thread that will make a easy for us all to keep up with all things Royals.

Welcome! "Grab a Brew... don't cost nuthin"...[spills beer on feet]

KC_Connection · 12-05-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevB

Interesting and related report, Blue Jays reportedly trading Marcum to Brewers for prospects.

Yeah, I'd be asking for them to sell high on him for a while. Sounds like a Greinke deal could very well be in the works, then.

**doomy3** · 12-05-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevB

Interesting and related report, Blue Jays reportedly trading Marcum to Brewers for prospects.

Very interesting...

Shaun Marcum-S- Blue Jays Dec. 5 - 9:01 pm et

The Journal-Sentinel's Tom Haudricourt reports that the Brewers are close to acquiring Shaun Marcum from the Blue Jays for prospects.
Now here's a big surprise. Marcum seemed like one of the Jays' core players after going 13-8 with a 3.64 ERA this season. Perhaps the Jays are grabbing some talent that they'll then use as part of a Zack Greinke trade.
Source: Tom Haudricourt on Twitter
Related: Brewers

KC_Connection · 12-05-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Greinke is the very definition of "not most players". The dude almost quit baseball because he was unhappy with playing. He "struggled" as recently as a few years ago because he became so bored that he started playing around with funny pitches and speeds just to keep himself amused. He's said the most fun he's ever had playing baseball was competing for the Texas League championship in Wichita. The scouts all agree that he has elite stuff, he simply needs to have something to play for.

Yeah, I know he's an odd dude. But I still don't buy that he's a 9 WAR pitcher going forward or that his oddness was the reason for his regression last year.

tk13 · 12-05-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Yeah, I know he's an odd dude. But I still don't buy that he's a 9 WAR pitcher going forward or that his oddness was the reason for his regression last year.

I hate to use the "you just don't get to see the guy" argument... but unless you watch this guy pitch every time out, hear his interviews, and know his history... I think for the most part the baseball community doesn't understand the guy. He is absolutely someone who could be so bored he will start screwing around out there with his offspeed junk one game, flip a switch and throw 8 shutout innings against Tampa Bay the next. It sounds stupid, but it is absolutely true.

KC_Connection · 12-05-2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

I hate to use the "you just don't get to see the guy" argument... but unless you watch this guy pitch every time out, hear his interviews, and know his history... I think for the most part the baseball community doesn't understand the guy. He is absolutely someone who could be so bored he will start screwing around out there with his offspeed junk one game, flip a switch and throw 8 shutout innings against Tampa Bay the next. It sounds stupid, but it is absolutely true.

I live in Lawrence, have Greinke on my fantasy dynasty team, and watch many of his starts. I know exactly what he's like, and I still don't buy that he can just will himself to become a 9 WAR pitcher.

**DeezNutz** · 12-05-2010, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Because I don't think Greinke is the same quality as Halladay, Felix, or Lee? I didn't think I was saying anything outrageous there. Greinke's numbers would also take a serious hit if he faced the Yankees, Red Sox, or Rays in half of his starts, which makes the comparison to Romero and Morrow viable.

If we're talking about Snider or even Drabek, I'd say their ceilings are around what Greinke is (5 WAR).

Fluid delivery or not, pitchers are pitchers. A vast majority of them are going to get hurt in time.

No doubt, but I see absolutely no justification for the Jays to include a player like Travis Snider in any deal for Greinke. The slight upgrade they'd get from him would be lost immediately from giving up 5 years of an above-average outfielder (and it would hurt even more if Snider reaches his ceiling).

Greinke against the AL East in a disinterested '10:

42 2/3 innings pitched.
12 earned runs.

He's a freaking beast. And I don't even want to hear about Drabek. Young pitchers who have undergone TJ's shouldn't even be in the conversation.

While I understand that position players vs. pitchers (in terms of relative value) is helping to shape your argument, we're talking about an "above average" outfielder vs. an "elite" pitcher. Not even close. As others have said, I think Snider is a nice player, but this cannot be one of the key pieces for Greinke.

KevB · 12-05-2010, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Yeah, I know he's an odd dude. But I still don't buy that he's a 9 WAR pitcher going forward or that his oddness was the reason for his regression last year.

I wouldn't necessarily argue that his "oddness" was the reason, but a guy like Grienke going out every 5th day on a team that has no chance to win, with no run support and a bad defense behind him is going to get worn down emotionally. He's shown since he was drafted he's elite. Put him on a good team and I think it would be really fun to watch.

I appreciate your position, and don't totally disagree. For a young up and coming team like the Jays who have rotation options, giving up that amount of young talent would be tough to swallow.

KC_Connection · 12-05-2010, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Greinke against the AL East in a disinterested '10:
42 2/3 innings pitched.
12 earned runs

Small sample size, and none of those innings were against the Yankees.

Quote:

He's a freaking beast. And I don't even want to hear about Drabek. Young pitchers who have undergone TJ's shouldn't even be in the conversation.

If we're talking ceilings, Drabek can certainly be a 5 WAR pitcher. I said nothing about the likelihood of him reaching that ceiling.

Quote:

While I understand that position players vs. pitchers (in terms of relative value) is helping to shape your argument, we're talking about an "above average" outfielder vs. an "elite" pitcher. Not even close. As others have said, I think Snider is a nice player, but this cannot be one of the key pieces for Greinke.

Snider is a legit MLB player already with the ceiling of an elite player, and he's under control for 5 more years. Why include that in a package for two years of Greinke? If you could get him locked up, then maybe.

**alnorth** · 12-05-2010, 08:30 PM

It probably goes without saying, but *if* Toronto is doing this trade to make a Greinke deal happen, then the dominoes are going to fall very quickly. They would have wanted to know from us exactly what we wanted in advance, they wouldn't allow themselves to be stuck with players they were just intending to use for Greinke. If Greinke is not a Blue Jay in the next few days, then this Milwaukee deal had nothing to do with us.

eazyb81 · 12-05-2010, 08:33 PM

I wonder what the Brewers are giving up for Marcum. Their system has taken a hit with graduations in recent years.

KC_Connection · 12-05-2010, 08:34 PM

The Marcum deal, to me, looks like an attempt to save money by the Jays in preparation for the acquisition of somebody else.

**alnorth** · 12-05-2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

I wonder what the Brewers are giving up for Marcum. Their system has taken a hit with graduations in recent years.

all I've found so far is "it involved minor-league pitching prospects." Brewers fans are nervous because they have a couple gems they dont want to part with lightly.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/111358854.html

eazyb81 · 12-05-2010, 08:51 PM

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-zack-greinke/

Hard ball talk speculates that Toronto would need to give up both Drabek and Snider, plus more, to get Greinke.

KC_Connection · 12-05-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-zack-greinke/

Hard ball talk speculates that Toronto would need to give up both Drabek and Snider, plus more, to get Greinke.

Pouliot has no sources, so he's basing that on nothing at all.

KC_Connection · 12-05-2010, 08:53 PM

Word is that Brett Lawrie is in the Brewers deal, that's all I can find.

01-06-2010, 01:51 AM
SPchief In Search of a Life Join Date: Feb 2004 Casino cash: $-1757095	2010 Kansas City Royals Repository thread All Royals All The Time! After consultation with others who peruse the game threads we decided to create this as a repository for all things Royals. Minor league news, AL (ahem) Central (thanks Vonne) news and anything Royals can be found here. alnorth, me and atleast 5 others will continue the game threads as usual. But if you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here. If a big story breaks, you can still start a thread about it. There is merely an all inclusive thread that will make a easy for us all to keep up with all things Royals. Welcome! "Grab a Brew... don't cost nuthin"...[spills beer on feet] Last edited by SPchief; 01-06-2010 at 04:22 PM..
Posts: 36,179

12-05-2010, 08:30 PM	#2739
alnorth . Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $57156239	It probably goes without saying, but if Toronto is doing this trade to make a Greinke deal happen, then the dominoes are going to fall very quickly. They would have wanted to know from us exactly what we wanted in advance, they wouldn't allow themselves to be stuck with players they were just intending to use for Greinke. If Greinke is not a Blue Jay in the next few days, then this Milwaukee deal had nothing to do with us. __________________ how many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb? HOW MANY?! none they just sit in the dark and cry
Posts: 36,130

12-05-2010, 08:33 PM	#2740
eazyb81 The Illuminati Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: the road less traveled Casino cash: $9984900	I wonder what the Brewers are giving up for Marcum. Their system has taken a hit with graduations in recent years.
Posts: 12,033

12-05-2010, 08:34 PM	#2741
KC_Connection Perpetual Mediocrity Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $1702783	The Marcum deal, to me, looks like an attempt to save money by the Jays in preparation for the acquisition of somebody else.
Posts: 57,729

12-05-2010, 08:51 PM	#2743
eazyb81 The Illuminati Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: the road less traveled Casino cash: $9984900	http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-zack-greinke/ Hard ball talk speculates that Toronto would need to give up both Drabek and Snider, plus more, to get Greinke.
Posts: 12,033

12-05-2010, 08:53 PM	#2745
KC_Connection Perpetual Mediocrity Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $1702783	Word is that Brett Lawrie is in the Brewers deal, that's all I can find.
Posts: 57,729