New US church leader says homosexuality no sin

[DaKCMan AP]

New US church leader says homosexuality no sin

Mon Jun 19, 3:50 PM ET


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Newly elected leader of the U.S. Episcopal Church Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori said on Monday she believed homosexuality was no sin and homosexuals were created by God to love people of the same gender.


Jefferts Schori, bishop of the Diocese of Nevada, was elected on Sunday as the first woman leader of the 2.3 million-member Episcopal Church. the U.S. branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion. She will formally take office later this year.

Interviewed on CNN, Jefferts Schori was asked if it was a sin to be homosexual.

"I don't believe so. I believe that God creates us with different gifts. Each one of us comes into this world with a different collection of things that challenge us and things that give us joy and allow us to bless the world around us," she said.

"Some people come into this world with affections ordered toward other people of the same gender and some people come into this world with affections directed at people of the other gender."

Jefferts Schori's election seemed certain to exacerbate splits within a Episcopal Church that is already deeply divided over homosexuality with several dioceses and parishes threatening to break away.

It could also widen divisions with other Anglican communities, including the Church of England, which do not allow women bishops. In the worldwide Anglican church women are bishops only in Canada, the United States and New Zealand.

Three years ago when the Church last met in convention, a majority of U.S. bishops backed the consecration of Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, the first openly gay bishop in more than 450 years of Anglican history.

The Robinson issue has been particularly criticized in Africa where the church has a growing membership and where homosexuality is often taboo.

Jefferts Schori, who was raised a Roman Catholic and graduated in marine biology with a doctorate specialization in squids and oysters, supported the consecration of Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, the first openly gay bishop in more than 450 years of Anglican history.

The 52-year-old bishop is married to Richard Schori, a retired theoretical mathematician. They have one daughter, Katharine Johanna, 24, a second lieutenant in the U.S. Air Force and a pilot like her mother.

Asked how she reconciled her position on homosexuality with specific passages in the Bible declaring sexual relations between men an abomination, Jefferts Schori said the Bible was written in a very different historical context by people asking different questions.

"The Bible has a great deal to teach us about how to live as human beings. The Bible does not have so much to teach us about what sorts of food to eat, what sorts of clothes to wear -- there are rules in the Bible about those that we don't observe today," she said.

"The Bible tells us about how to treat other human beings, and that's certainly the great message of Jesus -- to include the unincluded."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060619/...HBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Sully

Of course it's a utopian, idealistic goal. But I think it's worth striving for, rather than giving up and adding to the violence in the world, because I am too damn macho to use my mind and my heart, rather than my muscles.

You are avoiding the question. Making our young men into pansies is not in our best interest. Utopian and idealistic is right. Violence must be met with violence period. If someone is threatening you or your family or country you must be prepared, willing and able to execute that violence as quickly and efficiently as possible. Waht do you think your going to do if you have a home invasion open your mind and your heart? This idealistic utopian non-violent mantra I keep hearing will only lead to our downfall. This run and snitch mentality developes weakness not strength. We were born into this predatorial world and must deal with it accordingly. That is why it is wise to learn to defend. This wisdom will lead to confidence and that confidence will lead to successfully defending oneself, their family and our country. This is how it is, we simply cannot live your pipe dream.

[Jilly]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

You are avoiding the question. Making our young men into pansies is not in our best interest. Utopian and idealistic is right. Violence must be met with violence period. If someone is threatening you or your family or country you must be prepared, willing and able to execute that violence as quickly and efficiently as possible. Waht do you think your going to do if you have a home invasion open your mind and your heart? This idealistic utopian non-violent mantra I keep hearing will only lead to our downfall. This run and snitch mentality developes weakness not strength. We were born into this predatorial world and must deal with it accordingly. That is why it is wise to learn to defend. This wisdom will lead to confidence and that confidence will lead to successfully defending oneself, their family and our country. This is how it is, we simply cannot live your pipe dream.

Dear Jesus, I'm sorry that the whole mission you came to serve was only a pipe dream. Amen.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by TitsMagee

Dear Jesus, I'm sorry that the whole mission you came to serve was only a pipe dream. Amen.

Hmmm.

“And I saw the heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon called Faithful and True; and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. And his eyes are a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself. And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and pure. And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty. And he hath on his garment and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS (Rev. 19:11-16 - ASV).

FAX

[Jilly]

Originally Posted by FAX

Hmmm.

“And I saw the heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon called Faithful and True; and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. And his eyes are a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself. And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and pure. And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty. And he hath on his garment and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS (Rev. 19:11-16 - ASV).

FAX

cue historical context now... I'm just going to say that quoting Revelation and not knowing a damn thing about it is probably not a good idea.

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by TitsMagee

Dear Jesus, I'm sorry that the whole mission you came to serve was only a pipe dream. Amen.

Hey if you want to live your entire life with a turn the other cheek mentality with no defense for you, your family or your country that is certainly your right. Even Jesus raged against the merchants. If you are going to go with biblical stuff what are armies of angels needed for? What about hell in this non-violent jesus theory you are throwing out there?

[Sully]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

You are avoiding the question. What did I avoid? Just because you don't like and/or understand the answer, my very first sentence explained the answer to the question.
Making our young men into pansies is not in our best interest.
Such a sad stance, that anyone not ready to be violent is a pansy.
Utopian and idealistic is right. Violence must be met with violence period.
It has had such a success rate in the past, that this statement is self-evident... right? All wars have simply led to other wars. Every problem we have today can be, fairly directly, traced back to some war that happened in the past.
If someone is threatening you or your family or country you must be prepared, willing and able to execute that violence as quickly and efficiently as possible. Waht do you think your going to do if you have a home invasion open your mind and your heart?
That will be my 1st, 2nd,...512th option, to begin with.
This idealistic utopian non-violent mantra I keep hearing will only lead to our downfall.
Sure did doom guys like Martin Luther King, Ghandi and (gasp) Jesus. Why did those guys even bother?
This run and snitch mentality developes weakness not strength.
...and now you are just ranting about something that has nothing to do with the topic...
We were born into this predatorial world and must deal with it accordingly.
I agree. The disagreement comes on how to "deal with it." I believe, for the betterment of mankind, it is better to work toward diminishing the violence in every way I can. That could fall under the heading of using your mind to solve problems, it could fall under the header of showing someone that living with love is a hell of a lot more appealing and satisfactory than living with fear and hate.
That is why it is wise to learn to defend. This wisdom will lead to confidence and that confidence will lead to successfully defending oneself, their family and our country. This is how it is, we simply cannot live your pipe dream.

I also agree on learning how to defend. However, there are many ways to defend yourself, other than through violence. You see... violence is not the ultimate answer. It is just one answer of many. The ONLY reason we cannot live my pipe dream is that FAR too many folks refuse to strive for it. They have, I repeat, given up hope, and have decided it is much easier to use their muscles than their mind or heart. I understand that I, nor many generations after me, will ever see any type of complete non-violence. I'm comfortable believing it probably will NEVER happen. We have violence in our being, and it's hard to go away from that for the better of those around you. However, I believe in striving with every fiber of my being to work toward that. Much like if you have a wire and you cut it in half, it is smaller. If you cut that in half, it is smaller, and so on. You can keep cutting inhalf, and making substantial progress, though you will never completely have no wire left. But it seems that many would refuse to cut the wire, simply because there would never be no wire.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

Hey if you want to live your entire life with a turn the other cheek mentality with no defense for you, your family or your country that is certainly your right. Even Jesus raged against the merchants. If you are going to go with biblical stuff what are armies of angels needed for? What about hell in this non-violent jesus theory you are throwing out there?

And we've brought this thread full circle.
People using Biblical stuff out of context and without background in order to make a trite point.

Well done

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

i never expected to get an answer out of you on this. Then again it's what I would expect for someone that endorses the run and snitch or get expelled from school policy you endorse.

It's hard for me to answer when I'm living a life away from this BB. Sorry that got in your way. Just so you know, there are many greens that do endorse the Just War theory. There is a cavernous leap between that and what you are so wont to construe as violence. There's nothing wrong with protecting yourself if some dude at a bar is throwing punches at you. There is something wrong with trying to pick a fight with someone to either prove something to yourself, boost your ego, or gain from it.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by TitsMagee

cue historical context now... I'm just going to say that quoting Revelation and not knowing a damn thing about it is probably not a good idea.

Holy Holes In Holocene History, Ms. TitsMagee!

If you wish, and when time permits, I shall be pleased to engage you to an in-depth discussion of the secular aspects of the Bible focusing on historical, geographical, and biographical contexts.

Perhaps you can then better assess my understanding of the subject.

FAX

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I think I'll let my record on the board rest next to Senor Spittlespark's and let the board decide who's clouded by hate.

Oh, and it's not JUST judgment that's clouded, it's memory.

The funny thing about you is how selective your memory is. I seem to recall you laying out a "fuck you" to me long before I cursed you in size 7 font. Furthermore, in the last week you've called me a dumb c*nt, and told me to kill myself and wished to piss on my family. And you are absolved from hate...it doesn't surprise me that you try to go back to the other members of the board to back you up, as it is quite obvious that this is the only meaningful social group that you have in your life. Just give me the word, and I'll bring up any of these aforementioned posts you hypocritical shitheel.

There's probably a good reason why you have such a reaction though, it's an old saying that is a popular one of Paul Begala: a hit dog barks.

[memyselfI]

I might have to reconsider my elective absence from the Christian religion if this type of progressive and open minded attitude permeates.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

I might have to reconsider my elective absence from the Christian religion if this type of progressive and open minded attitude permeates.

I would never say it permeates.
But it can be found.

[Jilly]

Originally Posted by FAX

Holy Holes In Holocene History, Ms. TitsMagee!

If you wish, and when time permits, I shall be pleased to engage you to an in-depth discussion of the secular aspects of the Bible focusing on historical, geographical, and biographical contexts.

Perhaps you can then better assess my understanding of the subject.

FAX

this is so funny to me.... trust me, I know enough that I'm pretty confident I don't need to be enlightened. Thanks though. But you can email me if you want to.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by FAX

Holy Holes In Holocene History, Ms. TitsMagee!

If you wish, and when time permits, I shall be pleased to engage you to an in-depth discussion of the secular aspects of the Bible focusing on historical, geographical, and biographical contexts.

Perhaps you can then better assess my understanding of the subject.

FAX

Aw snap!!!!
A Bible-off!!!!!

[memyselfI]

Originally Posted by Sully

I would never say it permeates.
But it can be found.

Oh, I know as I am a member of a church that has had this view forever. But they are known as a fringe group in the Christian movement. When the tolerance of homosexuality becomes more than 'love the sinner, hate the sin' then I'll be at peace with Christianity.

As it is now, much of what is called Christianity seems to be missing Christ.