The myth of Pioli

[B_Ambuehl]

LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0

This time it’s personnel
Building to collapse
By Ron Borges
Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago
+ Recent Articles

MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner.

That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21.

Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro
football.

It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way.

Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday.

While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL.

These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots.

“It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him.

Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now.

Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom?

They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom?

Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom?

Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses?

That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change.

“We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.”

The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it.

“We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too.

“Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.”

That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

curry would have fit right in here, i watched him get beat by a TE and then outran by said TE to the endzone on the highlights yesterday. now it was vernon davis but still.

Fitting in is one thing. But in a 3-4, your cover ILB only has to cover. He doesn't have to be a monster at stopping the run too. You can afford to bring in a one-dimensional LB. Curry's high draft value was because of his versatility to both cover and stop the run. That high draft value was moreso for a 4-3 than a 3-4.

[ncCHIEFfan]

Originally Posted by DrRyan

Sarcasm I guess?

My point was they are doing things the right way and the Chiefs are not. The Wisenhunt hiring was a watershed moment for the Cardinals. With that hiring the whole organization got better. I am not ready to throw Haley out with the bathwater yet, but the team does not appear to being "coach up." Unfortunately the culture does not seem to have changed much at all thus far.

Also, calling AZ a perennial power where winning is expected and known is a bit premature don't you think? More sarcasm? They certainly look like they could be a good team for a long time with Wisenhunt there, but when Warner leaves it is likely so do their winning ways is Leinart is the QBOTF.

Dude how many years have the Cards been drafting in the top 5? They should have a stout roster, my goodness. Yeah they finally got a good coach, so what! The Chiefs are going to pull out of this but I am sure it will take a few years, duh!

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Matt Cassel throws some balls that get called "drops" that the best receivers in the league would only come up with about half the time.

The pass to Wade should have been caught for a TD, The other pass that hit Long right in the stomach should have also been a touchdown.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Now that's some intellectual dishonesty right there. Just admit that you ****ed up, I'm not going to hold it against you.

With that said, just like he had his scouts going to every preseason NFL game?

Funny, how out of 60 preseason games, he found one player to sign who was waived after them...and he came from New England.

That's some ****ing due diligence.

It's also funny that you would impugn someone else for the buddy network while simultaneously praising Scott Oedipus.

How did I **** up?

Are you going to tell me that Bill Belichick was out there travelling across the country scouting, evaluating, going to combines, all that shit? The bulk of the personnel process is in the scouts and personnel guys you have working for you. And the article clearly shows that Pioli was the one cracking the whip on the scouts to get their jobs done.

You guys are acting as if Belichick went through this grueling personnel process. Bullshit. His personnel guys and scouts did. If anything, Pioli benefitted off of good information from his scouts and personnel guys, not from the head coach who spends 75% of his time... y'know... coaching football.

Like I said, I hate the decisions Pioli has made this offseason. But now he has his scouts in place and based on what I've read, they are attending college football games by the truckload. He deserves at least to be judged based on what he does with his own army of scouts, given that they're the one doing all the rigorous evaluations.

You're trying to say that Pioli wasn't involved with personnel decisions. That that was all Belichick. And Glazer's POV clearly points out that it was Pioli that was driving these scouts to do their jobs--the most importnat job of the personnel process. So yes, to say that Pioli was powerless in New England is a load of shit. A half-ass personnel guy wouldn't have gotten any productivity out of his scouts and they would recommend shitty players to Belichick.

[DrRyan]

Originally Posted by ncCHIEFfan

Dude how many years have the Cards been drafting in the top 5? They should have a stout roster, my goodness. Yeah they finally got a good coach, so what! The Chiefs are going to pull out of this but I am sure it will take a few years, duh!

They have had one top five pick since 2006. Levi Brown, which was probably their worst first round pick in that time frame.

Edit: Did you really say, they got a good coach, so what?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

How did I **** up?

Are you going to tell me that Bill Belichick was out there travelling across the country scouting, evaluating, going to combines, all that shit? The bulk of the personnel process is in the scouts and personnel guys you have working for you. And the article clearly shows that Pioli was the one cracking the whip on the scouts to get their jobs done.

You guys are acting as if Belichick went through this grueling personnel process. Bullshit. His personnel guys and scouts did. If anything, Pioli benefitted off of good information from his scouts and personnel guys, not from the head coach who spends 75% of his time... y'know... coaching football.

Like I said, I hate the decisions Pioli has made this offseason. But now he has his scouts in place and based on what I've read, they are attending college football games by the truckload. He deserves at least to be judged based on what he does with his own army of scouts, given that they're the one doing all the rigorous evaluations.

Holy shit, you know who actually does that?

The director of college scouting. That was Dimitroff's job, not Pioli's.

Furthermore, that excerpt says or implies nothing about the work that Pioli does, only that he creates an unhappy work atmosphere by portraying his boss as some kind of tyrant.

How does that, in any way, say anything about him scouting or doing extra work?

Are you on mescaline?

[DaWolf]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

OTW, Glazer doesn't even say what zilla says he says.

Read my post, it has everything he says in it, and it's not flattering of Pioli in the least.

Just listened to the actual interview, it was talking about Haley's job security. Glazer says two things: Bellichick was not the mastermind, it was Pioli, and then he went on a tangent talking about Pioli being behind this image of Bellichick as a hardass, which to me made it sound like he was referencing the image of Haley as a hardass that we've been getting, because this whole convo was revolving around the idea that Pioli and Haley are not getting along and both Glazer and Francesa think there's a real possibility Haley is going to get booted after the year. He absolutely mentioned that Pioli went in there and immediately made it an unenjoyable place to work, but I heard another interview in the past referencing this saying that it was a tactic he was using to weed out people who wanted to work there vs people who did not want to work there and get his own people in. Either way, take it for what it's worth from Francesa and Glazer.

He's also got a Pioli interview up on that site, but I haven't listened to it yet:

http://www.wfan.com/pages/744503.php

[DaWolf]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Holy shit, you know who actually does that?

The director of college scouting. That was Dimitroff's job, not Pioli's.

Meh, I've read many stories of how Pioli would himself travel around from campus to campus and personally scout guys and study film, so it's not just isolated to one guy...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Holy shit, you know who actually does that?

The director of college scouting. That was Dimitroff's job, not Pioli's.

Furthermore, that excerpt says or implies nothing about the work that Pioli does, only that he creates an unhappy work atmosphere by portraying his boss as some kind of tyrant.

How does that, in any way, say anything about him scouting or doing extra work?

Are you on mescaline?

Who was managed by Scott Pioli.

And yes, the article clearly shows that Pioli was pushing to get things done. I don't agree with his style. And yes, the article scared the shit out of me b/c I don't like the culture he's bringing into KC.

But the fingerpointing is getting ridiculous. Doesn't credit and blame always start from up top? When did it become the case that Directors were getting more credit than the VPs and GMs? Pioli managed the entire scouting network. That includes Dimitroff.

A lot of Carl Peterson's failures were due to giving too much power to Lynn Stiles to run his personnel. And for not firing Chuck Cook. That's his fault for not micro-managing them better. I've never seen an organization where the lower-level guy gets more credit than the upper-level guy.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DaWolf

Meh, I've read many stories of how Pioli would himself travel around from campus to campus and personally scout guys and study film, so it's not just isolated to one guy...

And I've read instances where Belichick himself would do the same thing. A trip to the University of Maryland is referenced in Patriot Reign, for example.

Anyway, that's not Hamas' point.

Pioli wouldn't be pushing college scouts for anything, that was Dimirtoff's job.

If Pioli was pushing anyone, it was the pro scouts that worked other NFL games and helped self-scout.

[Titty Meat]

So Pioli just sat in the office and played on the internet while he "worked" for New England?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Who was managed by Scott Pioli.

That's not true.

The pro personnel department and the college scouting department are separate entities that answer to the General Manager.

Or the guy that has final say when it comes to football operations.

Belichick.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by billay

So Pioli just sat in the office and played on the internet while he "worked" for New England?

No one is saying that.

IIRC, this whole thing was fueled by a post early on that stated that Pioli had been a GM and been responsible for making football operations decisions for precisely one offseason and 12 games.

Then people got pissy because they thought he was a GM in NE - he wasn't - or that he had the power to make personnel decisions - he didn't.

[DaWolf]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

And I've read instances where Belichick himself would do the same thing. A trip to the University of Maryland is referenced in Patriot Reign, for example.

Anyway, that's not Hamas' point.

Pioli wouldn't be pushing college scouts for anything, that was Dimirtoff's job.

If Pioli was pushing anyone, it was the pro scouts that worked other NFL games and helped self-scout.

That's hard to say with any accuracy. Scott Pioli was in charge of both the pro and college personnel departments as well as contract negotiations with the Pats, so he was not at all isolated...

[Param]

Don't worry guys... Pioli will be here for at least another 10 years.