Flanagan Takes another shot at Elvis Backers - Page 2

Mosbonian · 01-02-2001, 08:30 AM

Did anyone see the article by Jeffrey Flanagan taking a shot at Elvis backers(apologists)?

His article was a tongue in cheek piece but was a swipe at anyone who backed Elvis Grbac.

Good to see he still isn't into knowing more about the subjects he is prone to write about, it keeps up his tendencies.

mark
***********

**Baby Lee** · 01-02-2001, 03:13 PM

And I should clarify that, although I agree [in principle] with Packfan's assessment of the D, I don't cross the bridge with him to punishing Grbac for it.
It just strikes me as inapposite that, with so much going wrong, we wouldn't find room to reward one of the few bright spots. Now realize that heaping compensation on him [ie, the BONUS] leaves the cupboard bare. But cutting him to start clean sends the message that the Chief's have NO loyalty whatsoever.

Gaz · 01-02-2001, 03:13 PM

Mr. Blond-

Amen.

xoxo~
gaz
definitely [b]NOT[/b] a Spineless Jellyfish Stoogebacker.<BR>

**morphius** · 01-02-2001, 03:18 PM

MrBlond - I agree completely about the D. Kurt and the stop the pass first theory made our LB's less reactive and took them out of the play. Throw in the soft zone D which made everyone open and you have a D designed to fail and be left shaking their heads knowing that they were right were the coaches wanted him and had no chance to make a play. I think the redisgned D turned Donnie Edwards into an above average LB instead of the probowl playmaking LB he should have been.

DaWolf · 01-02-2001, 03:19 PM

I disagree that we need to start over. There is no way in today's NFL that we don't have a chance next year with a few moves. I mean look at the teams in the playoffs today. Even Bill Walsh is saying he expects the Niners to be in the playoffs next year.

Elvis Grbac is not the problem here. The point is that if we have a running game and defense, we won't need the yardage/TD #s from our QB. We'll be a balanced team. We know that Grbac can get the job done in the passing game. It makes no sense to start over. What you do is continue to build on what we have, which are solid young offensive and defensive players. Get rid of the trash. Fill the holes, get a RB, a corner, some DL help, fix the biggest problem which is pathetic coaching, and this team is right back in it. I don't buy into this doom and gloom. The last 3 years have basically been a part of our "down" period that most teams go through. If Carl plays his cards right we'll be fine. But it remains to be seen if Carl will play his cards right...

MrBlond · 01-02-2001, 03:21 PM

Gaz,

Elvis may indeed renegotiate, but only to lower his cap number this year. Next year his cap number goes up again and again and again. Eventually he must be paid for. The more times we reneg. Grbac the bigger the final price tag becomes. Peterson solved the problem of Grbacs cap size by putting in the 10 mil. bonus at the end. He created this problem to solve another and now he is going expand(there is a better word but I can't think of it) it by renegiotiating again. I would be all for this if we would be Superbowl contenders next year or even the year after but this contract hammer will fall right when we may be 1 or 2 players from the prize.

ct · 01-02-2001, 03:25 PM

I pray as much as I can the rumors are true.
What better gift for a Cat fan than the Spineless Jellyfish Stooge to lead the Gayhawk D into the abyss!!!

ct
almost too good to be true, so it probably isn't

MrBlond · 01-02-2001, 03:33 PM

I am not bashing Grbac. He had a great season. 4000 yards says it all. I think he will be better than the Qb who wins the SuperBowl this year. (whoever it may be) But I don't think he is the type of QB who deserves that much of a cap number. Renegiotiating Elvis may be the smart thing to do next year. I would love to see Elvis and the same offense here next year with a OC (or HC)like Saunders but if we can get out from under that contract (imo) it will help us out down the road. Who knows if we cut Grbac, he may find he is not worth that much on the open market and re-signs for less with KC. But to reneg. only balloons an already unwieldy contract.

**Baby Lee** · 01-02-2001, 03:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Who knows if we cut Grbac, he may find he is not worth that much on the open market and re-signs for less with KC. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I gaurantee that plenty of teams would salivating over an available Grbac.

DaWolf · 01-02-2001, 03:40 PM

The problem with letting him test the open market is that there are a lot of teams out there desperate for a legit QB. Think he wouldn't be licking his chops at a chance to QB in Tampa with Dunn, Keyshawn, and that great D? And if you let him go and start over, you take the chance of ending up like the San Diego QB situation, or getting someone like Shaun King who looks good at times but essentially proves that he can't move the ball consistently...

MrBlond · 01-02-2001, 04:34 PM

Johnny,
Who are these teams that are going to salivate over Grbac? Baltimore probably but does he fit there cap structure? They have big name defense and will command big dollars. Seattle? probably yes but can they afford Grbac? They have a lot of dollars invested in FA's and 1st rounders from last year and this. Who else? most good teams have money and time invested in their own QB's. The others such as SD and Dallas are no more attractive and may be less attractive than KC. And don't forget that the competition will drive his price down. Brad Johnson may be as good as Grbac and cheaper. Both have a history of injury. Trent Green will be a hot commodity. Flutie may well be on the market. Ray Lucas may be expendable with NY. Jeff Blake was having a good season before his injury. He may be released w/ Brooks coming on. Chandler from Atlanta will be released. Jim Miller? Gus Ferrote? Tony Banks? Damon Huard? Add in Brees and Vick and Tuiassosopo(sp?) heck maybe even a suprise release like Mark Brunell and the QB market is flooded with not much demand from contenders. Who wants to give a 10 million dollar bonus to a QB who is 16-16 the last two years and HAS NEVER WON A PLAYOFF GAME!!! (thats a joke)

DaWolf · 01-02-2001, 04:54 PM

To answer your question, a lot of teams. Look, here is Kerry Collins who quit on his teammates and had a drinking problem, and the Giants handed him a big contract because of ability. Look at the money Mitchell got based solely on ability and potentual. There are always teams. Brad Johnson and Trent Green aren't exactly masters of the postseason. Brunell was supposed to get his team to the promised land the last few years and has choked. And he's been injury prone. Heck, next to Brunell and Johnson, Elvis is Mr Iron Man.

Seattle, San Diego, Cincinnati, Baltimore, chicago, Tampa, Atlanta, and some other teams who might get rid of their QB's are going to be interested.

Johnson is coming off of a worse season than Grbac. Rob Johnson in Buffalo hasn't lived up to the promise and may be dumped, Grbac is more valuable than him. Green hasn't done a thing and if you want him you have togive up draft picks. Chandler is a walking injury. Miller, Banks and Huard are at best backups. Ferrote is lower on the ladder. You are telling me Grbac isn't more attractive than some of those guys?

MrBlond · 01-02-2001, 05:09 PM

He may be more attractive then those other QB's but 10 mil? and some of those teams that can and will give him that kind of jack are not contenders. Grbac may not even consider playing for someone like Cincy. And if Elvis test the market and recieves an offer that high then you know you are not overpaying. Elvis holds the cards. If he wants to reneg. he can if he doesnt then there is nothing Peterson can do but cut him. Elvis says he wants to remain a Chief. If he is willing to reneg. a more friendly cap number then he wouldnt be opposed to letting us match an offer from another team. Even with a career year, IMO, he is not worth a 10 million dollar bonus. That is what we are talking about. Not a salary but a bonus and when he says he will reneg. a more cap friendly deal he doesnt mean waiving that bonus but extending it. The cap hit and the bonus will be due eventually. The day will come to pay the piper. SF and Denver eventually paid for renegiotiating Young and Elway but at least they got a Superbowl parade.

DaWolf · 01-02-2001, 05:18 PM

Grbac if he does sign with us or any team will sign a contract that is cap friendly the first few years. His agent and Carl have already said that. Now sure you will eventually have to take a hit down the road, but you would have to do that anytime you sign a good QB to a contract. You let him get on the market and he will recieve a lot bigger offer than what Carl will be willing to pay I'll wager, because a lot of those teams have way more cap space to play with...

01-02-2001, 03:13 PM	#16
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $8028275	And I should clarify that, although I agree [in principle] with Packfan's assessment of the D, I don't cross the bridge with him to punishing Grbac for it. It just strikes me as inapposite that, with so much going wrong, we wouldn't find room to reward one of the few bright spots. Now realize that heaping compensation on him [ie, the BONUS] leaves the cupboard bare. But cutting him to start clean sends the message that the Chief's have NO loyalty whatsoever.
Posts: 95,642

01-02-2001, 03:13 PM	#17
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Mr. Blond- Amen. xoxo~ gaz definitely [b]NOT[/b] a Spineless Jellyfish Stoogebacker.<BR>
Posts: 5,911

01-02-2001, 03:18 PM	#18
morphius World's finest morphius Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $5835027	MrBlond - I agree completely about the D. Kurt and the stop the pass first theory made our LB's less reactive and took them out of the play. Throw in the soft zone D which made everyone open and you have a D designed to fail and be left shaking their heads knowing that they were right were the coaches wanted him and had no chance to make a play. I think the redisgned D turned Donnie Edwards into an above average LB instead of the probowl playmaking LB he should have been.
Posts: 26,022

01-02-2001, 03:19 PM	#19
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	I disagree that we need to start over. There is no way in today's NFL that we don't have a chance next year with a few moves. I mean look at the teams in the playoffs today. Even Bill Walsh is saying he expects the Niners to be in the playoffs next year. Elvis Grbac is not the problem here. The point is that if we have a running game and defense, we won't need the yardage/TD #s from our QB. We'll be a balanced team. We know that Grbac can get the job done in the passing game. It makes no sense to start over. What you do is continue to build on what we have, which are solid young offensive and defensive players. Get rid of the trash. Fill the holes, get a RB, a corner, some DL help, fix the biggest problem which is pathetic coaching, and this team is right back in it. I don't buy into this doom and gloom. The last 3 years have basically been a part of our "down" period that most teams go through. If Carl plays his cards right we'll be fine. But it remains to be seen if Carl will play his cards right...
Posts: 6,798

01-02-2001, 03:21 PM	#20
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	Gaz, Elvis may indeed renegotiate, but only to lower his cap number this year. Next year his cap number goes up again and again and again. Eventually he must be paid for. The more times we reneg. Grbac the bigger the final price tag becomes. Peterson solved the problem of Grbacs cap size by putting in the 10 mil. bonus at the end. He created this problem to solve another and now he is going expand(there is a better word but I can't think of it) it by renegiotiating again. I would be all for this if we would be Superbowl contenders next year or even the year after but this contract hammer will fall right when we may be 1 or 2 players from the prize.
Posts: 12,747

01-02-2001, 08:30 AM
Mosbonian On Hiatus Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-1140300	Did anyone see the article by Jeffrey Flanagan taking a shot at Elvis backers(apologists)? His article was a tongue in cheek piece but was a swipe at anyone who backed Elvis Grbac. Good to see he still isn't into knowing more about the subjects he is prone to write about, it keeps up his tendencies. mark ***********
Posts: 12,392

01-02-2001, 03:25 PM	#21
ct u b illian Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: DooDah Casino cash: $10009436	I pray as much as I can the rumors are true. What better gift for a Cat fan than the Spineless Jellyfish Stooge to lead the Gayhawk D into the abyss!!! ct almost too good to be true, so it probably isn't
Posts: 7,287

01-02-2001, 03:33 PM	#22
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	I am not bashing Grbac. He had a great season. 4000 yards says it all. I think he will be better than the Qb who wins the SuperBowl this year. (whoever it may be) But I don't think he is the type of QB who deserves that much of a cap number. Renegiotiating Elvis may be the smart thing to do next year. I would love to see Elvis and the same offense here next year with a OC (or HC)like Saunders but if we can get out from under that contract (imo) it will help us out down the road. Who knows if we cut Grbac, he may find he is not worth that much on the open market and re-signs for less with KC. But to reneg. only balloons an already unwieldy contract.
Posts: 12,747

01-02-2001, 03:37 PM	#23
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $8028275	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Who knows if we cut Grbac, he may find he is not worth that much on the open market and re-signs for less with KC. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I gaurantee that plenty of teams would salivating over an available Grbac.
Posts: 95,642

01-02-2001, 03:40 PM	#24
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	The problem with letting him test the open market is that there are a lot of teams out there desperate for a legit QB. Think he wouldn't be licking his chops at a chance to QB in Tampa with Dunn, Keyshawn, and that great D? And if you let him go and start over, you take the chance of ending up like the San Diego QB situation, or getting someone like Shaun King who looks good at times but essentially proves that he can't move the ball consistently...
Posts: 6,798

01-02-2001, 04:34 PM	#25
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	Johnny, Who are these teams that are going to salivate over Grbac? Baltimore probably but does he fit there cap structure? They have big name defense and will command big dollars. Seattle? probably yes but can they afford Grbac? They have a lot of dollars invested in FA's and 1st rounders from last year and this. Who else? most good teams have money and time invested in their own QB's. The others such as SD and Dallas are no more attractive and may be less attractive than KC. And don't forget that the competition will drive his price down. Brad Johnson may be as good as Grbac and cheaper. Both have a history of injury. Trent Green will be a hot commodity. Flutie may well be on the market. Ray Lucas may be expendable with NY. Jeff Blake was having a good season before his injury. He may be released w/ Brooks coming on. Chandler from Atlanta will be released. Jim Miller? Gus Ferrote? Tony Banks? Damon Huard? Add in Brees and Vick and Tuiassosopo(sp?) heck maybe even a suprise release like Mark Brunell and the QB market is flooded with not much demand from contenders. Who wants to give a 10 million dollar bonus to a QB who is 16-16 the last two years and HAS NEVER WON A PLAYOFF GAME!!! (thats a joke)
Posts: 12,747

01-02-2001, 04:54 PM	#26
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	To answer your question, a lot of teams. Look, here is Kerry Collins who quit on his teammates and had a drinking problem, and the Giants handed him a big contract because of ability. Look at the money Mitchell got based solely on ability and potentual. There are always teams. Brad Johnson and Trent Green aren't exactly masters of the postseason. Brunell was supposed to get his team to the promised land the last few years and has choked. And he's been injury prone. Heck, next to Brunell and Johnson, Elvis is Mr Iron Man. Seattle, San Diego, Cincinnati, Baltimore, chicago, Tampa, Atlanta, and some other teams who might get rid of their QB's are going to be interested. Johnson is coming off of a worse season than Grbac. Rob Johnson in Buffalo hasn't lived up to the promise and may be dumped, Grbac is more valuable than him. Green hasn't done a thing and if you want him you have togive up draft picks. Chandler is a walking injury. Miller, Banks and Huard are at best backups. Ferrote is lower on the ladder. You are telling me Grbac isn't more attractive than some of those guys?
Posts: 6,798

01-02-2001, 05:09 PM	#27
MrBlond Lets Rock. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South of the border. Casino cash: $10004900	He may be more attractive then those other QB's but 10 mil? and some of those teams that can and will give him that kind of jack are not contenders. Grbac may not even consider playing for someone like Cincy. And if Elvis test the market and recieves an offer that high then you know you are not overpaying. Elvis holds the cards. If he wants to reneg. he can if he doesnt then there is nothing Peterson can do but cut him. Elvis says he wants to remain a Chief. If he is willing to reneg. a more friendly cap number then he wouldnt be opposed to letting us match an offer from another team. Even with a career year, IMO, he is not worth a 10 million dollar bonus. That is what we are talking about. Not a salary but a bonus and when he says he will reneg. a more cap friendly deal he doesnt mean waiving that bonus but extending it. The cap hit and the bonus will be due eventually. The day will come to pay the piper. SF and Denver eventually paid for renegiotiating Young and Elway but at least they got a Superbowl parade.
Posts: 12,747

01-02-2001, 05:18 PM	#28
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	Grbac if he does sign with us or any team will sign a contract that is cap friendly the first few years. His agent and Carl have already said that. Now sure you will eventually have to take a hit down the road, but you would have to do that anytime you sign a good QB to a contract. You let him get on the market and he will recieve a lot bigger offer than what Carl will be willing to pay I'll wager, because a lot of those teams have way more cap space to play with...
Posts: 6,798